only joking

[Ogri the trog]

I hear you John,
Last serious climb I did was during my military training; canvas rucksacks, corduroy breeches and Boots DMS which had to be worn on parade the following day! From memory that was an HVS, multipitch, so we all had a turn at belaying and leading.

''Cha, youth of today - etc etc.

Ogri the trog

 

[John Fenna]

Aye - those were the days!

 

[QDanT]

Aye - those were the days!

Danny

 

[beamdune]

I climbed for a while and never saw the problem with routes being bolted, if people don't like using them then, err.... don't use the bolts and carry £300 of Wild Country Friends and Nuts on your rack instead.

The whole "Should use traditional protection" thing is a right old load of toss as far as I'm concerned, bolted routes are safer and you don't need a grands worth of gear to climb them.
Making the sport far more accessible.

Obviously, I do know this is basically a joke thread but my comments still stand.

You are trolling, right?

To advocate bolting traditional routes is basically owning up to being inadequate.

 

[John Fenna]

Danny

Making threaded chocks - right?

 

[Klenchblaize]

In my day people climbed a crag and tried not to fall off just by using skill and technique.
These days "rock jocks" climb a crag and tend to rely on falling off as part of the way of learning how to get up the route - a bit like playing a computer game, losing lives until you learn how to get to the next level.
I only ever put up one new route in my climbing days, but as routes had no pattern of bolts to follow the skills of route-finding and protection selection were as important as the physical skills of actually staying on the rock. I was one of the last of "The Clean Hand Gang", coming very late to chalk, just as I came late to wearing high friction boots (PA"s and "EB"s at that time).
The climbing I did normally ended with summiting a mountain or at least the crag while much of the sport climbing these days seems to be all about the gymnastics of following a line of bolts part way up a crag and abing off or even purely using indoor walls.
As with much in this life climbing seems to have veered away from "man challenging nature" to "technology (plus gymnastics) challenging a man made problem (sometimes in an outdoor setting).
I have nothing against modern climbing - but it has little to do with the climbing I did in my youth and has little attract me.
I prefer the simplicity of the older style of things when I pitted my skill, wits, big boots and tweed britches against the mighty HVS climbs of the day when kit was simple and climbing accessible to all - no matter the depth of their pocket!
Joe Brown started climbing using a washing line for a rope and made the first nuts from plumbing fittings, used his socks over his boots to give extra friction and put up routes that still defeat manys a rock jock!
Teddy needs no Friends to go climbing - it looks like his biggest friend sorts out the pro for him!

We have any number of reactionary Organisations keen to champion the ways of the past so feel sure there must be one for rock climbing in tweed and cleated brogues. Kind of in the vein of that championmed by Waterlog magazine where the empasis is to be everything that modern carp fishing is not.

I can just see the membership now as they meet in a Moorland pub to take on valuable provisions before heading off with blazing briar pipes full of Old Crusty #4 and a deerstalker to fend off falling shale!

Give it a few years and there's bound to be a breakaway group of BCUK members who only do canvas tents, pre 2000 Woodlore knives and to be seen in ventile risks being hauled-up before "the Committee".

Or does this already happen in the Members only forum!

Cheers

 

[John Fenna]

I'll sign up for that!
Like so many others - I look a prat in Lycra and chalk
Teddy's kit looks great and totally up to a tough V Diff with Hemp, seggs and Tricounis! (look them up lycra boys)

 

[Klenchblaize]

I'm sure if you remember to apply the chalk before the Lycra you'll be just fine!

Cheers

 

[John Fenna]

I'm sure if you remember to apply the chalk before the Lycra you'll be just fine!

Cheers

 

[Tengu]

Teddy ought to go down the Cambourne school of Mining. He could teach them lots.

 

[demographic]

You are trolling, right?

To advocate bolting traditional routes is basically owning up to being inadequate.

Does it? Damn.
Looks down keks: hung like a ferret

I just don't see the problem with routes being bolted*, the French do quite a lot of it and it means you can climb to your limits more often and don't need a fortunes worth of gear all the time.

Does seem to make some people spit their dummy a bit though
Seems to mean that French climbers do quite well in competition as there's a good strong base of people getting into the sport.
Can't say I've done anything harder than a 6B technical grade though so I might be biased by my ferret like appendage.





*The sharp eyed hunter gatherer type readers will have noticed that I even said that if you don't like that you don't have to use them.

 

[beamdune]

Nowt wrong with bolts and lycra if that is, er, the 'tradition'.

You know full well though if trad routes in this country were retro bolted they would probably end up ruined by sheer weight of foot traffic. Think how polished the starts of many popular routes already are.

 

[The Cumbrian]

Just think how much more accessible you could make the woods and hills of Great Britain if the paths were made nice and smooth and dry for those who didn't want to wear suitable footware, and if handrails were installed where things got a bit steep. Perhaps the ends of twigs could be blunted to prevent the careless and feckless from being poked in the eye as they blunder through the woods?

 

[Klenchblaize]

Or even a DDA compliant route up Everest.

 

[John Fenna]

I am sure that bolting has got out of hand - my mother used to say "Don't bolt your food" - but you don't hear anyone say that these days!

 

[demographic]

Just think how much more accessible you could make the woods and hills of Great Britain if the paths were made nice and smooth and dry for those who didn't want to wear suitable footware, and if handrails were installed where things got a bit steep. Perhaps the ends of twigs could be blunted to prevent the careless and feckless from being poked in the eye as they blunder through the woods?

I said I didn't see bolting routes as a problem, not that every route should be bolted as a matter of course.

Certainly not an environmental problem as some people claim.
It also allows more people with talent but not much cash to get into climbing as well.

Seems it's OK to smooth off routes if you have a good bit of cash but not OK for the skint people (you know, the ones that should be off the streets and doing something more constructive than standing around the local Spar) to go out on the rock. Wouldn't want the proles out there in the wilderness would we old bean

I have noticed that this is quite an emotive issue before though, the local climbing club (which when I last saw had about four decent rock climbers and a load of people not capable of getting up anything better than a 5a HVS, but boy were those ones good at walking up big hills) could fairly froth at the mouth when they got to arguing about it with each other.

I really don't see the problem though, if the routes bolted then people can ignore the bolts, how hard is that? The real kit junkies with too much spare cash could even get into Needle Sports and get some special blinkers made up so their eyes couldn't see the heinous bolts protruding beside them. They could call them Bolt Blanker Blinkers.

It could even be graded differently for using bolts or not, none of its rocket science.

As for the chalk debate? If you're not climbing with chalk then you aren't climbing anywhere near your full potential, if you don't mind that then fine but other people might want to get closer to their limits that that and I can't see the problem with that either (although I don't like the practice of using resin on rock as I feel that is damaging).

When I was climbing (few years ago now) I only wanted to climb rock, wasn't in the least bit interested on the walking/scrambling bit, that was for Ramblers.

 

[QDanT]

I think the really good think about bolting is that it can give you chance to carve out a ledge, to sit on,and have a brew.

cheers Danny