ongoing Tentipi issues

[littlebiglane]

I think I am going to do a U-turn on this if that is alright?

This is the original thread http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=478118

Sorry to have to contradict this because I love the design of the Tentipi tents, but I've got a Safir 9 which is of very inferior quality to previous models (also have a Varrie 5). Before buying, check very carefully what nylon valance material and canvas material it has.

The nylon valance on mine - bought in the summer - is a coarser, more open weave than previous years and pulls open very easily even in light winds. Pegging points now leak slightly after only two weekends' use. Even the nylon on the vent covers, which is never tensoned any more than necessary to hold them out is pulling open.

The canvas, though holding up OK as you'd expect after such little use, is lighter than before and very definitely likely to have a shorter life than older Tentipis both for the tent and tent bag.

There is also a problem with the plastic rings used to attach the roof vent opening shockcords and peg out the base. Two have already split, one very clearly from a manufacturing defect (some sort of bubble in the plastic). I have always been careful with these when either opening the roof or pegging out, so have no doubt that this is a materials issue.

Tentipi acknowledged that the nylon is inferior and entered into a verbal agreement to replace the tent while I continued to use the increasingly unserviceable one purchased in line with their previous service levels, but are now attempting to backtrack and suggested the tent be returned for repair, which will create a row of unsealed holes in the lighter canvas where the valance is unstitched and a new one reattached. That's really not acceptable, particularly in view of the other problems.

Anyway, that was two months ago, at which point they were promising to get back in touch. Now, five months on from the initial complaint to them, they still have not arranged how to rectify matters nor even commented on the inferior canvas and broken rings. It looks as if I am not going to have any choice but to get a full refund, returning the product as unfit for purpose.

One way or another, Tentipi material quality, quality control and customer support are not what they were. I really hope this is a temporary lapse, but it's definitely not what you expect from a £1k+ tent to say the least.

I used to be able to recommend Tentipi without qualification. Sadly that is no longer the case. Indeed, I would at the moment caution anyone against buying sight unseen any model they are purchasing. And if you can get a Varrie instead of its replacement Safir (which is when the poor quality new materials were introduced) jump at the chance.

Mike

I am concerned that I cannot unequivocally recommend a product that I thought (as a purchaser) was superb. But piecing things together from other posts there certainly seems to be a potential issue around some of the compenents/materials.

As for me my Varrie is about a year and a half old and at the moment I am very happy with it. It was a difficult initial purchase as the one I got had a fabric defect in the super polyamide skirt and was returned to the retailer and replaced (no quibbles - thanks). It was a Varrie of the 'old style' - a lighter, but more densely woven skirt/valance, robust black rubberized peg-out reinforcements/attachments to the skirt, thick dyneema/strapping and heavy/large diameter cordage to all the tent guy-lines and vent pullies. The tensioners on the guys were natty metal ones.

The replacement I got (early Summer 2007) had a heavier/thicker polyamide skirt of a larger, slightly looser weave than the former, the peg-out reinforcements to the skirt were now made of several layers (stitched together) of the same polyamide material as the skirt/valance, the dyneema stapping was thinner/lighter as was all the cordage. The tensioners on the cordage/guys were nylon plastic. As you might recall, my metal peg-out rings all failed in high winds this summer and had to be replaced by yachting shackles. http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33078 I got back to Tentipi with this information - apart from an initial, postive response about the duff quality of these rings - no follow-up response - especially since I had just spent £40 on new bits of stainless steel!

As far as the above comments by Mike - my heavy polyamide / looser weave skirt has not given me any trouble (yet) and the threads/weave has, to my knowledge, not separated and I have used it with winds up to gusting force 8. However I will be keeping a very close eye on it. I think that the introduction of the changes to the product (Varrie to Safir) have taken place well before this summer (08) so potentially all those who have bought in the last couple of years will be faced with these same issues. I could not tell the difference in weight of the canvas between the old-style Varrie and my replacement. My Varrie does not leak and it seems all the materials are now holding up - leading me to wonder if there have been subequent changes to the product since early summer 2007 - some of which could be interpreted as cost-cutting rather than product improvement?

I think that seeing as there are a number of owners of tentipis on this site it would be good to get some clarification on the materials used and any potential future problems with recent/current stock- and if Tentipi would honour rectifying these issues if they were to materialise. I will contact them shortly and see what's up. Maybe they will be prepared to comment on each of these issues - especially the valance/skirt which cannot be easily replaced if the weave does come apart - I take Mike's point about stitch holes in the canvas if the valance is replaced. I think it is important to address these as such conversations and postings directly affect the reputation of a company and could possibly affect how people see their brand. One could see people being put off purchasing such high value items if they are seen to be unresponsive to customers both in after-sales and managing issues around perceived material defects. However - before any judgement is made it would be good to at least hear their side of the story. It would only be fair.

It would be good if Mike posted some pictures of the defects onto this thread so we can look at them.

LBL

 

[Mike Benis]

I have a day of tidying up in preparation for the arrival of my sister's family for the new year. As soon as all the festivities are over I'll pull the Safir out of the attic and take pics.

Tentipi have had a number of problems in recent years and it's my opinion that once production moved from their original factory and was subcontracted to a company in Latvia (I think), the quality was never the same. As alarming as the trend to less robust solutions seemed, the difference is that in the past any problems were addressed promptly by Tentipi, as we know from the forums here and over at SOTP. Recently, however, Tentipi seem less inclined to stand by their product. It was because of their past reputation that I held off posting until yesterday, not least of all because it initially looked as if Tentipi were going to stand behind their product and change back over to more substantial materials as in the past. They did respond to my e-mails and I wanted to avoid making damaging posts about the company, particularly since I recognised they would be vulnerable to the fallout as a small specialist company. Now, however, aside from the fact that 6 months is more than enough patience, I also believe I have a duty to warn "fellow campers" that a Tentipi is no longer a solid long-term "investment". After all we're mot talking about an Argos cheapie.

The changes you note LBL apply to 2007/2008 Varries and I can bear out what you say with regard to my relatively new Varrie 5 compared to previous models, but which is nonetheless superior to the Safir 9. Unfortunately, however, the Tentipi trend clearly seems to be to use increasingly lighter, cheaper and less robust materials. Stitching quality is also down (stitch count, precision and consistency).

It's a crying shame, because what I want is a good old Varrie 9 and it looks like that's no longer on the menu, with Tentipi having really lost the plot over materials selection, quality control and customer support (contrast this with Vaude UK, for example). The Safir is unequivocally not fit for purpose, with the various problems reported in the post you quote having followed just two weekends away in light to moderate winds and initial heavy rain on the second outing, which turned the final site into a bit of mudbath.

For reasons of time I will probably post pics of the tent lying on the floor, not pitched, which is to say with the seams in the nylon not under any tension whatsoever, and you will still be able to clearly see how the weave has opened out so far as to allow water to penetrate and to make a seam seal repair impracticable.

I've had some great times in Tentipi tents. I think they're a great design and I find it really sad to have to report all this.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone else with Safir problems.

Cheers

Mike

PS: Just to clarify about the plastic rings (someone commented on this in the original thread, which I am trying to keep clear for people interested in selling), the main pegging points are still metal rings. The new metal rings are smaller than their predecessors (late Varrie) and in fact too small for the big Tentipi snow pegs, but otherwise look OK although they're a close fit even on the standard pegs supplied. The plastic rings are used to attach the ground sheet to the tent, to hang the tent pockets from the tent, to hold the roof opening adjusters by the tent wall and to pull out the edges of the valance in line with the main pegging points. It is these plastic rings that have failed, one for the roof opening shock cords, one at a pegging point.

 

[littlebiglane]

Thanks Mike for your considered response. I'll wait until you take some snaps and then I will be looking to take this up with Tentipi. Maybe it will give them the focus they need to respond in full to your concerns in a way that you - and all of us - find satisfactory and a true reflection of a great company

 

[Squidders]

Well, I just ordered a brand new Safir 9cp... can't wait for it to arrive.

 

[littlebiglane]

Well, I just ordered a brand new Safir 9cp... can't wait for it to arrive.

Well fingers-crossed you are 100% happy with it. Tell us how you get on. I am sure Mike will want to know.

LBL

 

[godfather]

I put my new one up yesterday for the first time. A 3 year dream come true for me.

 

[littlebiglane]

I put my new one up yesterday for the first time. A 3 year dream come true for me.

Good stuff - Ispent 2 years persuading the missus that it was essential kit, I had the same feeling when I got mine. It would be good to hear your thoughts on it after several months Maybe a proper review It might help create a perspective on how the Varrie/Safir has developed over the past few years and if you find any material issues.

Gosh....I just wonder how many Tentipi owners are BCUK members now?

LBL

 

[Canalvoyageur]

I am a Tentipi owner, I have the Varrie 5 complete with the Varrie inner which has the built in floor, I purchased mine in 2005 and have had no problem at all.
But from what Ive read, it would appear that the supposedly Varrie clone is of inferior material, and is assembled using cheap labour and probably no quality control.
I'm truly sorry to hear of the disappointment of members as said these are not cheap.
I will follow this thread with interest to hear the final outcome.
Best Regards Bill

 

[Squidders]

Bill, there never will be a final outcome I bet.

Some people will be happy tentipi owners and others won't... there isn't a single product on the planet that is loved by every single human, I can't see a tentipi tent being any different.

Also, I have been informed that the materials have reverted back to the original ones and strongly suspect that they do indeed have quality control, even if some poor sod isn't forced to inspect every single stitch as we consumers might like to think happened before.

 

[Squidders]

Mine arrived at lunchtime and I set it up in the garden... its brilliant. The pegs are the rubbish pressed ones that ship with the vagge 7 I already had... fortunately, I had got some big nail type ones ages ago and these will work as well for my safir 9 as well as they did for the vagge.

The edging material is REALLY good and the whole thing feels of amazing quality. I stuck it on the frame on top of my wannigan and it's going to be a doddle to get from the car for up to a 5 mile walk I would say. It's big and heavy but perfect for car, sled or canoe.

 

[Mike Benis]

I finally received a short reply from Tentipi yesterday after my two-month delay.

The valance material has been corrected on new ones, so those who have made a Happy New Year purchase should be fine. The same goes for the plastic rings.

The question is how Tentipi will be treating those of us who got tents with the inferior nylon valance and faulty rings.

The new canvas, though lighter and thinner, apparently has a higher tear strength and hydrostatic head. I have asked about abrasion resistance to complete the picture.

So the good news is Tentitpi have by their account got on top of the problems at least where new tents are concerned. Hopefully they have also taken systemic steps to prevent any recurrence. I also assume they have taken steps to remove all faulty tents from the distribution chain, but will be copying this post to them and inviting them to comment or inform me so I can post the information.

I'll keep you posted....

Cheers

Mike

 

[littlebiglane]

Thanks Mike - look forward to hearing a response from Tentipi about the previous issues and also a postive outcome for you.

LBL

 

[Carrog]

Hi everyone

This is my first post here- am I supposed to post an introduction anywhere?

We've recently got a tentipi topaz and floor and I have to say that is of much poorer quality than the lightweight varrie 9 we had before. The stiching is wider and less carefully done, the pannels have been less accurately cut, the skirt is of much poorer material and the opening system at the top is nothing like as smooth or as reliable.

We're trying to get a small, but significant problem with the manufacture of the vent system sorted - but so far no luck. We bought through Vince of Nordicoutdoor very friendly but not managed to actually help us with this yet- just says all he can do is contact tentipi for us, and hasn't got back to us...

I'd have to say all in all that I no longer recomend tentipi either....

 

[Mike Benis]

Carrog, have you tried contacting Tentipi direct or talking to Caspar at Nordic Outdoor?

I have yet to get the specific problems with my own Safir 9 sorted, but have been in extensive contact with Tentipi and came here to post this update:

I thought it would be helpful to provide a little update on all this after extensive correspondence with Tentitpi.

Overall, it's very good news for everyone, especially anyone buying a new tent.

Tentipi have taken really decisive action to tighten up their quality procedures, including by bringing all production in-house again. In my opinion that's great because their people always made a better product, but it of course it also means they can now keep a much tighter check on quality. They have also entered into an "in-house" agreement with a nearby certified quality control institute which has highly-sophisticated quality control equipment and specialist personnel who now offer unlimited support at all times. This is in addition to Tentipi's own investments in quality control equipment. So things are looking excellent on that front.

They stopped using the problematic nylon valance material in 2008. Apparently the problem was due to to a phenomenon known as "sliding yarn" a problem that had not emerged in lab reports but only in use. Incidentally they now also have the equipment to test for this in house so that the problem can't occur again.

The lighter polycotton canvas looks to have very impressive specifications, with higher tear and tensile strength as well as water column specs. But Tentipi have taken customer comments on board about our preference for the look and feel of the previous material and have therefore gone back to it. Whatever happened with those of us who suffered a lapse in communications, it is clear that Tentipi are listening to their customers!

Lastly, the nylon O-rings which broke on my tent have now been superseded with Acetal, which is apparently a much stronger material.

So, as I wrote, good news all round, with Tentipi listening to us and take prompt and decisive action.

 

[myotis]

Mike,

Thanks for this follow up, I have been very unhappy with my non-tentipi tipi and regretted not going for a Tentipi in the first place. Only then to be dismayed by the comments here, as it seemed even paying for a Tentipi was no guarantee of getting good quality.

I have therfore been following these threads closely and pleased that you have come back with some positive comments.

Graham

 

[Nonsuch]

Mike,

Thanks for this follow up, I have been very unhappy with my non-tentipi tipi and regretted not going for a Tentipi in the first place. Only then to be dismayed by the comments here, as it seemed even paying for a Tentipi was no guarantee of getting good quality.

I have therfore been following these threads closely and pleased that you have come back with some positive comments.

Graham

Graham which non-Tentipi tipi did you get and what was wrong with it ? Might be interesting to other prospective buyers.

 

[Carrog]

I just thought I'd post an update on the problems I had with my tentipi (topaz 15).

I'd bought through Vince at Nordic Outdoor, and fortunately can now say that everything has been resolved very well.

My original tent has been replaced, and I'm very happy about that. Now that I've had more time with the new tent I'd say some of the points I made about the drop in quality were probably a little unfair. The early models were undoubtedly over-engineered if anything, and I suspect the stitching and skirt material issues I raised on the new model would, in practice, never represent a problem - they're still very good and I believe very unlikely to ever let you down.

The one thing I still feel shouldn't have been changed though is the material used to spread the tension onto the tent from the pegging out points on the skirt. This is now made from several layers of the skirt fabric instead of the original black rubberised material. I don't imagine it's anything like as strong as the original, but I'll assume that tentipi have researched what was necessary and found this perfectly up to the job. If it ever actually gives me any problems I'll let you know.

Anyway I reckon the service I had from Nordic Outdoor was great - and the tents themselves are still the best portable katas I've seen.

 

[myotis]

Graham which non-Tentipi tipi did you get and what was wrong with it ? Might be interesting to other prospective buyers.

Mmmm, I suppose that was an inevitable. I'm a bit reluctant to say because I suspect its part of history now.

However it is a Mad Bear Vildmark 4, which for me has turned out to be a bit of disaster. Its now only available as Factory Seconds.

My reluctance is because a) Oliver (MD at Mad Bear) was very sympathetic and I would have no hesitation in buying from Mad Bear again,and b) it was getting very good buyer reviews on the Mad Bear Website, so my experiences seemed to be unusual.

The full list of manufacturing faults (poles not fitting together, stitching missing the seam and running through the main canvas, webbing straps missing, straps sewn in the wrong place, straps falling off etc) is too long to list, and as I ended up getting a large chunk knocked off the price (and it was the first run of a new model), I can live with them.

The main problem is that I cannot pitch it, the material stretches so much between wet and dry, that the tension straps aren't long enough to cope, This means that you need to constantly take out and replace the pegs.

it also means that if you don't constantly manage the pegging its gets so taught that its scary (taught enough to rip one of the webbing straps from the groudsheet) and so sloppy when its wet that if you don't sleep in the centre of the tent, the edges collapse onto you,

Now while I have no experience of pitching tipis, I do have a lot of experience with all sorts of tents from Canvas Bell tents to nylon tunnel tents, and I have never experienced anything like this before.

The flucuation from being so tight that you think its going to tear itself apart to so floppy that you end up with a working tent space of about 2m rather than 4m, is incredible and certainly my wife has now reached the stage wher she just doesn't want to use it. I feel the same way, but for me its more the irritation of constantly having to fiddle with the pegging.

Of course it could be my lack of experience with tipis and I admit to being a bit of a perfectionist when comes to pitching tents. Indeed, when everything is adjusted the Vildmark looks really good, but it never lasts more than a few hours.

I have watched Tentipis being pitched three times now, and have been down to see the pitched ones at Taunton Leisure about 6 times, in a range of weather conditions and they just seem so much better than the Vildmark. BUT one of the good reviews on the Mad Bear site commented on how much better the Vildmark was than his Tentipi, so maybe its just me.

From my correspondence with Oliver at Mad Bear , I am confident that the new stock of Vildmarks will be much better than this first batch that I got mine from, and his service was excellent. So my comments are probably of limited use.

However, I would be interested in any one else who has a Vildmark to see if this pitching problem is just me.

Graham

 

[Nonsuch]

Thanks for sharing. I was wondering if if was a Helsport like mine - which has also proved disappointing. Agree Tentipis are the best provided they have fixed their QC issues

 

[myotis]

Thanks for sharing. I was wondering if if was a Helsport like mine - which has also proved disappointing. Agree Tentipis are the best provided they have fixed their QC issues

It seems you just have to accept that buying a Tentipi is inevitable :-(

Graham