new & lightweight vs rustic & comfortable

[Tony]

I've been thinking about the term for a lot of years, I've listened to the arguments, read the arguments and all that and for me Bushcraft has never changed from just getting out there, it absolutely covers modern technology and materials and it also covers old time knowledge materials and skills. I've built shelters with Mors that he's developed and sung the praises of modern materials, he's of the opinion that we should all be pressing forward in pushing the boundaries of materials and technology as well as developing the classic skills.

We have the luxury of practicing our bushcraft however we're comfortable doing so, that allows us to forage while wearing the most up to date technical jacket available or a grass skirt, we can carry a cuben fibre tarp to sleep under because it means we can get out there and enjoy ourselves or we can use a canvas tarp (I love canvas tarps), ultimately we're still sleeping outside under a tarp, we're still foraging for food, we're still lighting fires, we're still pushing ourselves into the outdoors and having adventures and that's what it is for most of us.

Learning to survive without any kit is a skill and we might limit our kit to increase our skill, but I'd want some good kit if I really had to survive, modern materials would be a yes please, but if they weren't available, I've got some skills that can help me out as well so hopefully I'll be all good....

Just my 2p

 

[vestlenning]

In Norwegian we have the word "frilufsliv", from "friluft" = outdoors and "liv" = life, meaning being out and about doing something or simply just relaxing.

 

[Goatboy]

Like some of the others when I was younger and off on expedition I'd use lightweight modern gear, though I found that GTX didn't really work for me and that synthetic base layers stank very quickly. When working outdoors I tended to use harder wearing more traditional fabrics. I learnt from years of working the woods that staying dry in the UK was not really achievable. Moisture management and staying comfortable was however. Merino wool base layers and socks worked a whole lot more for me. I eventually found that Paramo clothing was something of a revelation, it breathed so much better. My tweeds that I wore for shoots were adopted as wear for other types of outdoor pursuits as they were comfortable in a variety of conditions. The clothes I wear these days may be seen as archaic by some, but for living in and as part of the environment they are unsurpassed for me. I don't really like the feel of most synthetics next to my skin. The natural fibres don't go up like a Roman candle when near a fire and are less susceptible to abrasion and puncture by thorns and the likes.

As others have stated there's also the mental and aesthetic appeal of certain materials. I love leather that's burnished and glows from deep within, I like that the colours blend into the background, I don't want to sound like a crisp packet as I walk.

Yes some of my gear is heavier now, but through the knowledge I carry in my head my kit list is lighter these days. I feel that if something went wrong I could sustain myself for a long period in the clothes I wear and what kit I do carry by being part of my environment rather than trying to battle mother nature isolated in a technological carapace of synthetics.

It's not for everyone though. Those mates that are still able to climb rock and ice look at me askance in my woolies but it's horses for courses. I'm out there to enjoy myself these days; not prove myself.

 

[Ahjno]

Imo: If it's mostly high tech and little crafts it ain't bushcraft...

Canvas, Ventile, etc. once were high tech in their time - now they're part of bushcraft. Copper axes once were high tech. Same goes for flint axes, or that 20th century knife on your belt. Even building a fire was once high tech ... Crafts - putting up my tarp is bushcraft: it's taught in all basic courses. It requires a correct location (flooding, branches), knots, etc. Getting to a location (5 km walk from the nearest road) requires navigation through dense pine forrest. I don't use a map in that area, it's all done from memory (they didn't had maps in the stone age) - and yeah I've been geographically challenged when a certain tree wasn't where it was supposed to be. That's a craft. I like stargazing, that's a craft too.

My SilNylon tarp can be seen as not-bushcrafty by some, fair play - each to their own. In a 100 years time it has the same status as canvas has these days.

It's all about perspective. I don't go out as much as I'd like to. If I go out I'm restricted by law in the techniques I can practice (fire, so I take a stove; natural shelter, so I take a tarp; trapping, so I take food).

We don't all live in Norway with a lot of nature and do as we please. You completely missed out you're in a very privileged position compared to most of us.

Further more I'm restricted in time. I have responsibilities in the real world, where bills have to be paid and family looked after. I don't eat and breath bushcraft as others do, I have other interests aswell. My walk in the park identifying plants or just look at the animals is as much bushcraft as creating fire by bowdrill or carving spoon #1500.

There may not be as much crafts involved as others, but it's still bushcraft in my definition - and that is what it is all about. It's my hobby. It's not about quantity (amount of crafts involved), it's about quality (me being happy with the things I do).

As I've said before: there are a lot of flavours in bushcraft. This one is mine, and you are fully entitled to have your own flavour - which I may or may not like in return. Who knows. But don't tell me that (in your opinion) my bushcraft ain't bushcraft.

 

[OurAmericanCousin]

For the record, a skilled "mountainman" or "reenactor" isn't always the wannabe weekender that is so often depicted by those without a more complete understanding. The reenactment part, for those well versed in their skills, is a reenactment of a time period and not always an event in time. I have used my skills for extended stays in the wild (not just the woods) as well as in an instructional setting for the Park Service, museums, various groups, etc. There are endless misconceptions regarding those who choose this period lifestyle; not the least of which is propagated by many of the participants themselves.

I can assure you, when the added parameters are factored in, along with life skills that so many have chosen to forget, time spent out on the ground takes on a whole new level of appreciation.

We don't bemoan a broken or lost geegaw all that much (sentimentality aside), as much of our kit comes from Nature's bounty. It doesn't require any polymers to fix or an afternoon wasted waiting for the postman to deliver a replacement.

We understand our limits, usually, and strive to push them back by increasing our acumen. We work and, for a brief moment, live in a world where many of the materials we use are a part of that world. We live in Nature, and not in spite of it. I can feel that better using more wits than kit.

It's not better, but certainly not worse, than using modern kit. It's a choice that adds a bit more challenge.....a test. That's all.

I DO wish my stuff was lighter, though.

 

[ADz-1983]

I've got a foot firmly in both camps. For me it's all about how I want to experience my time outdoors. Some adventures will be high tech jaunts wrapped in goretex camping on mountains under silnylon and speed cooking dehydrated meals. Other times it'll be wool shirts stainless steel billy cans and cooking steaks over the open fire with a few single malts to wash it down. It's all good as long as you're enjoying your time outdoors.

Ditto!

 

[cranmere]

If I have to carry my kit any distance I go as light as possible. I've never liked being weighed down as I walk and the older I get the more I feel that way. If I'm playing in the woods then old fashioned natural materials are sometimes nicer to use and are esthetically pleasing.

No matter what gear we are using though the skills that make us comfortable are still much the same.

 

[Countryman]

In my long distance walking and expeditioning days I always chose the "plastic fantastic", mainly for the light weight aspect but also because I bought into the hype of "Superior Function" of the marketing hype for synthetic clothing.
These days I do not walk as far (age and old injuries coming back to haunt me demand this) and I have chosen to enjoy my outdoor experiences using gear that pleases "Mind , Body and Spirit" rather than just going light-weight.
I have a preference for natural materials from a comfort aspect (wool canvas and leather feel so much more pleasant against the skin than plastic), home made gear from an aesthetic aspect (and I love making stuff, especially from found, harvested or recycled materials) and avoid plastics as I dislike them from an Ecological aspect.
Also, "Bushcraft" is, for me a bit of an escape from the pressures of Modern Living and the woods are somewhere I can indulge my interests in Primitive Technology and "Reductionism" (reducing things to base principles - living becomes a process of keeping warm, fed and comfortable using materials to hand, not worrying about the mortgage and the garage bills etc) wooden eating equipment either made by me or gifts from friends etc go a long way in allowing this change of pace.
These days I find the woods a place of retreat, sanctuary and healing rather than part of the modern Helter-Skelter life and avoiding the use of Ultra Modern gear helps reinforce the efficacy of these retreats.

Very much how I feel.

Must have a beer by the fire sometime!


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[cbr6fs]

Personally i buy and use kit that i feel is fit for purpose.

As i enjoy a view at night i don't camp in woods, i tend camp up mountains instead, so a fair bit of effort is usually needed to get there, as a result i try and keep my kit as light as possible but still comfortable enough for me to enjoy the experience.

If car camping then i'll throw everything including the kitchen sink in cause i know i won't be carrying it far comfort comes before weight.

Kit choices usually get heated debates going, but the only time anyone can tell me what i carry is wrong is if they're buying it and they're carrying it.
Way i see it is i buy and choose kit based upon my needs, as no one else camps in the same spots, hikes the same routes, has the same fitness level etc etc then their opinion although welcome isn't as valid.

So camping on a wood close to the car, wool, ventile and heavy cotton tarp/tent might be perfect, hiking 2000 meters of elevation and a 12mile day though and that weight really starts to get to you.

Likewise using a lightweight Cuben fibre tent next to a fire in the woods is a bit daft as well.

Kit that's fit for purpose

 

[Bishop]

Lighter, stronger, more reliable gear has always been adopted eventually from a historic perspective. What puts the brakes on the process even today is the ability of the 'common man' to duplicate the technology, basically when we don't understand how to make or repair some things ourselves instead having to rely on others then we don't feel entirely comfortable with that arrangement. Mainly because if something is lost or breaks out in the boonies that you cannot fix or create/improvise a replacement then you're buggered until you reach civilisation or come into range of an Amazon delivery drone . Bushcraft after all at its core is about the individual knowing how to utilise the available resources, not paying somebody else to do it for them. For example given enough time one person or a small group could smelt iron, make steel and forge a knife but who here could build a Titanium or Aluminium refinery in their shed? Roll back the clock a couple of hundred years and the same debate probably played out around the campfire as native Americans who had been happy for generations with clay pots & flint tools were introduced to tinware and new fangled metal blades.

 

[OldJimbo]

So, what do you think? Why don't all bushcrafters use gortex / silnylon / titanium / etc. Is it just aesthetics, or am I missing something?

I think that most here seem to agree that all depends on what you want to do.

Years ago I had a few hours to spend in Vancouver and so went around to some of the big outdoor stores. It was all very interesting, but in the end I didn't buy anything. I was amazed that they simply didn't have anything which applied to the way I approach the outdoors. I was by fires or doing hard work and so most all of what they had for sale didn't apply to me. In huge contrast to that, I was at a training session in Victoria, and had to get to the one tobacconist which sold good pipe tobacco. That done I passed an outdoor store having a super sale at 10 to six. Eight minutes and $700 later I was back out with a half price down/gore-leak/tex jacket and lots of shoes - even the pack bag to carry it all in on the plane! The jacket was useless in the outdoors but is still doing great for town use where it never gets a real soaking.

That being said I carry high tech binoculars (with laser rangefinding) because they do what I want, and I'm looking at a packraft:
https://www.alpackaraft.com/index.cfm/store.catalog/Packrafts
I love modern synthetic boots - for walking along roads or gravel logging roads. I've more than once started walking down to clear trails and then had to go back and put on my old caulked (spikes on sole), because it's best to have sure footing on slippery trails where cell phones don't work, combined with axe proof safety toes..

A long time ago I used to do extended hikes and stays with lots of gear, and so I know (remember with horror) what a 90lb pack is like.. Now while there are still "through hikers" walking huge distances on trails and so into ultra light backpacking with minimal required skills, there is also a movement for extended hiking over incredible distances and through incredibly difficult terrain - using minimal lightweight gear. Since they actually return, I have to assume that their skills exceed mine.
http://www.groundtruthtrekking.org/
I've offered a set of books and DVD's for pass-around. before.

 

[John Fenna]

Very much how I feel.

Must have a beer by the fire sometime!


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Are you coming to the Moot?

 

[RE8ELD0G]

For me its military kit mixed with the lightest pieces possible.
I have loved camo/army colour since i was too young to remember and it has stayed with me through my Army day and continues today.
The military gear is very hardwearing and mostly quite cheap, but some things like cooking setups are just too heavy so i substitute with titanium gear.

However, i love the look of canvas/wool and leather gear too but its just too expensive for me and weights a lot.
Saying that im definitely getting a wool bushshirt to use round the camp fire to keep me warm and protect my buffalo/down jacket from the sparks.

Just waiting for someone to come up with a tear/spark resistant warm material thats lighter than wool, and in camo colour of course.

 

[cbr6fs]

Lighter, stronger, more reliable gear has always been adopted eventually from a historic perspective. What puts the brakes on the process even today is the ability of the 'common man' to duplicate the technology, basically when we don't understand how to make or repair some things ourselves instead having to rely on others then we don't feel entirely comfortable with that arrangement. Mainly because if something is lost or breaks out in the boonies that you cannot fix or create/improvise a replacement then you're buggered until you reach civilisation or come into range of an Amazon delivery drone . Bushcraft after all at its core is about the individual knowing how to utilise the available resources, not paying somebody else to do it for them. For example given enough time one person or a small group could smelt iron, make steel and forge a knife but who here could build a Titanium or Aluminium refinery in their shed? Roll back the clock a couple of hundred years and the same debate probably played out around the campfire as native Americans who had been happy for generations with clay pots & flint tools were introduced to tinware and new fangled metal blades.

Interesting viewpoint

The biggest spanner in the works that i can see though is hundreds of millions of people use their cars daily around the world, very very few know anything about cars or how to fix them, yet the convenience would seem to override any fears.

For outdoors stuff i can't think of a kit failure that could be bodged together enough to get to a road.
With a bit of ingenuity it's amazing what can be fixed with a bit of duct tape and cordage.

I suppose a complete collapse of a tent on a very windy mountainside would be a bad night, i'd be tempter to just use it as a bivvy bag till morning then though, so for sure a miserable night, but it should be survivable.

 

[Countryman]

Are you coming to the Moot?

I hope so but this years big bushcraft adventure is in Canada for me.. My kids remain keen to go to the Moot.


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[John Fenna]

I will see you there then