New Knife Ideas - Queries Stainless Steels

ranger

Forager
Nov 3, 2003
142
0
South East
Hi everyone – I’ve got my mind set to ordering a new bushcraft knife and after recently talking to a respected maker am quite seriously thinking of having it made in stainless steel (shock/horror, some of you are no doubt running for the hills!). So far, apart from as a teenager, I’ve always used 01 tool steel knives, and have been very happy with them. I don’t suffer from shinny knife syndrome; however, it would be nice to have a really low maintenance knife and am therefore considering a stainless steel micarta combination with a flat grind.

Firstly, apart from ease of sharpening, what is the reason that bushcrafters are on the whole so anti stainless steel? (Apologies in advance if this is a stupid question)

and

What out of all the stainless steel would you recommend for a bushcraft knife and why?

Many thanks
ranger
 

TheViking

Native
Jun 3, 2004
1,864
4
35
.
Hi...

I can definately recommend a Brusletto! Beautiful, but fairly cheap for the product you get. Most of their knifes are stainless and sold in high numbers. :wink: Bruslettos website. :biggthump
 

bushwacker bob

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 22, 2003
3,824
17
STRANGEUS PLACEUS
ranger said:
Firstly, apart from ease of sharpening, what is the reason that bushcrafters are on the whole so anti stainless steel? (Apologies in advance if this is a stupid question)

and

What out of all the stainless steel would you recommend for a bushcraft knife and why?

Many thanks
ranger
The main arguement against stainless from bushy purists,is that they're not as easy to spark a fire steel with.This is remidied by carrying either the striker provided or another backup knife like a SAK or opinel which most do in anycase. Stainless makes perfectly good bushcraft knives as many on this site will vouch for.In a saltwater/estuary type of environment its the steel of choice. I don't know which steel is best as there is lots of variations.British Blades would be able to give you at least a dozen answers on that :rolmao:
There is also an arguement that Carbon is traditional and gets a better edge but there again flint is sharper than bronze or copper.
 

leon-1

Full Member
ranger said:
What out of all the stainless steel would you recommend for a bushcraft knife and why?

Many thanks
ranger

I had a bit of a discussion on this a while back, I have been using knives made from D2 for quite a while and although not a stainless they are pretty close, the question that I asked was about S30V, Martyn and The General from BB were very helpfull as were Hoodoo and Schwert.

I think the general outcome of the question is that S30V is as good as D2 and as a result of this I have ordered a knife made from S30V.

The likes of Chris Reeve and Gene Ingram (Gene Ingram to order) are now making knives in S30V as opposed to 01 and D2 so it has to have something to offer apart from stainless quality, from the data that Martyn sent me and the tests done on S30V by the General it appears to perform in as good a way as D2 if not better.

Hopefully I will be taking possession of a Benchmade Activator soon which is made in S30V and if you ask our esteemed American colleagues they have a a good respect for S30V as well, Good Luck in your search :wave:
 

leon-1

Full Member
bushwacker bob said:
The main arguement against stainless from bushy purists,is that they're not as easy to spark a fire steel with.This is remidied by carrying either the striker provided or another backup knife like a SAK or opinel which most do in anycase. Stainless makes perfectly good bushcraft knives as many on this site will vouch for.In a saltwater/estuary type of environment its the steel of choice. I don't know which steel is best as there is lots of variations.British Blades would be able to give you at least a dozen answers on that :rolmao:
There is also an arguement that Carbon is traditional and gets a better edge but there again flint is sharper than bronze or copper.

The Fallkniven F1 is made out of VG10 (I think that this is classed as a stainless) as is the H1 and there are not many knives that I have ever come across that shower better sparks than them.

The Viking mentioned a good manufacturer in Brusletto, I have had one for 11 years and it is still superb, but I am still experimenting as you do, one thing is that these do not spark overly well so as Bob mentioned you would have to carry a striker with them. :eek:):
 

Adi007

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 3, 2003
4,080
0
The problem with the super stainless steels (S30V, VG10, CPM440V, D2 ...) is that they are hard, making them hard to sharpen. Add to that a flat grind and you have a heck of an area of metal that youa re working on. OK, diamond and ceramics are up to the job but they are a lot harder to work with than carbon steel.

I would say that sharpening a super steel stainless is not something for the beginner to do.
 

Tantalus

Full Member
May 10, 2004
1,065
149
60
Galashiels
you had a look at the northstar over on british blades ranger?

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=4859

the discussion about stainless vs carbon goes way too many directions for me to follow

but to the best of my knowledge nothing is truly "stainless"

given our climate and the conditions that are encountered in bushcrafty situations i would not make a big issue out of stainless but place more weight on ease of sharpening, strength and reliability, if it happens to be stainless as well then thats fine by me :wink:

this is of course just my opinion and as i say i am no expert on steels

happy hunting
Tant
 

Martyn

Bushcrafter through and through
Aug 7, 2003
5,252
33
59
staffordshire
www.britishblades.com
ranger said:
Firstly, apart from ease of sharpening, what is the reason that bushcrafters are on the whole so anti stainless steel? (Apologies in advance if this is a stupid question)

and

What out of all the stainless steel would you recommend for a bushcraft knife and why?

Many thanks
ranger

Ahhh, that old chestnut. ;)

Well, I'll divide my answer into 3 sections, practical, artistic and spiritual.

OK, if you look at a scandi ground blade, the edge is usually around 40 degrees. That's very thin, but very, very sharp. It's also ideal for woodwork - the main function of a bushcraft knife. Bushcraft knives get used hard, then get whacked into wood with battons and get generally abused. So the knife needs to be tough. For the most part, carbon steel can be thought of as tougher than stainless, not harder, but tougher. Stainless can be hard and brittle, though not always. For a scandi style blade, abused with battons, the knife may be prone to chipping. The hardness of stainless, would make the blade very difficult to reprofile yourself, though not impossible. If the edhe of a carbon steel blade, gets dinked or rolled, which is a real possibility, it's a relatively easy job to re-hone a new edge onto it. A tough thing to do with a stainless blade. For the same reasons, stainless can be hard to sharpen, probably requiring diamond hones. That's OK, but you may not always have diamond hones. What if all you have it a bit of old rock? You can use it on a carbon blade, but forget it with a stainless blade, you'll be there all week - longer! So, why carbon, well ease of sharpening, easy to maintain and tough.

Artistic, well shiny stainless is a product of the 20th century and it screams of it. Carbon, over time, takes on a patina, a natural finish, etched into the blade from acids in things you cut. It add a beauty you'll never see on a stainless blade. The carbon knife, looks every bit the earthy, object of natural beauty. The stainless blade will always be pristine and shiny.

Spiritual, well bushcrafters tend to like to do things the hard way. Fire by friction or flint and steel, rather than a lighter. It's about the skills used to create such, rather than just getting the fire going. Same with a knife, maintaining a carbon knife in good order, is a real skill in itself, one that cant easily be practiced with a stainless blade. The carbon knbife is understood, iron ore, charcoal, heat, hammers and anvil - all very earthy, natural things. Stainless, is a 20th century alloy of chrome and iron and others - it has no soul.

That said, nothing wrong with stainless, use it if that's what you want. it'll make a good knife. Go for Crucible S30v, the best of the bunch. ;)
 

Martyn

Bushcrafter through and through
Aug 7, 2003
5,252
33
59
staffordshire
www.britishblades.com
leon-1 said:
The Fallkniven F1 is made out of VG10 (I think that this is classed as a stainless) as is the H1 and there are not many knives that I have ever come across that shower better sparks than them.

Quite right. It has nothing to do with stainless, you can get sparks off a firesteel with flint, broken glass, broken pottery, housebricks, tungsten router bits, - just about any hard sharp surface - that's all you need.

However, you will never get a spark from a stainless blade, by striking it against a piece of natural flint.
 

Martyn

Bushcrafter through and through
Aug 7, 2003
5,252
33
59
staffordshire
www.britishblades.com
Tantalus said:
you had a look at the northstar over on british blades ranger?

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=4859

the discussion about stainless vs carbon goes way too many directions for me to follow

but to the best of my knowledge nothing is truly "stainless"

given our climate and the conditions that are encountered in bushcrafty situations i would not make a big issue out of stainless but place more weight on ease of sharpening, strength and reliability, if it happens to be stainless as well then thats fine by me :wink:

this is of course just my opinion and as i say i am no expert on steels

happy hunting
Tant

Just for clarity, so everyone realises, the North Star is made from A2 carbon tool steel. It's quite similar in composition to O1.
 

masongary44

Need to contact Admin...
Aug 6, 2004
127
0
49
Leeds, England
I have a Carbon Steel knife hand made by a guy called ben Orford, a lovelyu knife, V.smilar to the WS and a FallKniven F1 (just taken delivery of it).

Where i still prefer the shape and design of the Ben Orford knife, the FallKniven kicks out the best shower of sparks i have ever seen from my fire steel, the carbon steel is a bit weak in comparison...

I have not tried to sharpen the F1 yet for the reasons mentioned, stainless is supposed to be harder to sharpen, and it has a convex grind, that being said, it does seem to hold the edge for longer...

there are good and bad points to both....
 
D

dataphage

Guest
The Brusletto knives are made from Sandvik steel also known as 12c27. I have an EKA W11 made of the same stuff & can testify to its amazing edge holding and sharpenability. I also have a Fallkniven F1 which is laminated VG10 steel. This too is pretty awesome stuff but seems to be a little more prone to edge rolling than the Sandvik - this is easily sorted with a minute or two on a fine stone & stropping the edge properly, but I still prefer the Sandvik steel it just seems to get sharper than the VG10.

I have heard a couple of arguments against stainless; it can be too hard to sharpen in the field, and it doesn't get the same fine edge as a carbon blade. Both have not been borne out by experience and I find that the trade off of having a low-maintainence blade with stainless to be preferable - this seems to be personal thing with everyone having a different opinion.

The edge profiles and handle material & shape will dictate far more how useful the knife is. Flat grind is great for ease of re-sharpening but can be time-consuming to repair if the edges get damaged. I changed my W11 to a convex edge after trying the F1's convex edges and have found that the knife stays sharper for longer and have not looked back.

I have found that using a micarta handled knife for extended heavy tasks can give me blisters this has not been the case with wood. Micarta is all but indistructible but I still prefer the wood and its not so difficult to look after - all you have to do is oil it every now & then which I do with the whole knife stainless steel or not. :)

If you want a Brusletto from the UK check out Attleborough Accessories - they have a number of them including the rather beautiful NÅTID - but if you buy the last one I'll not be pleased, I've been saving my pennies... :money:
 

Tantalus

Full Member
May 10, 2004
1,065
149
60
Galashiels
Martyn said:
Just for clarity, so everyone realises, the North Star is made from A2 carbon tool steel. It's quite similar in composition to O1.

lol thanx martyn i just spent half an hour looking that up :)

from Mike Stewarts post on BB (Maker of North Star)

Most of the BRK&T line is made from A-2 tool steel. I find this to be the ideal steel that is avalable and I know it like the back of my hand. I know what it will do , how to get it to do it and I have never had it fail me. I have made knives from many other steels and still do(we do a lot of work for other knife companies). I am not a fan of stainless steels . I have made thousands of knives in every stainless you can name and none of them , so far , will take and hold an edge like tool steels. I am still looking for one that will and if I ever find one ,I will use it.

so no the North Star is not stainless
Tant
 
D

dataphage

Guest
Good link about blade steel:
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~umschm08/aboutsteel.html

Things not on there:
The Carbon V steel listed at the bottom is most likely 0170-6 (aka 50100-B), currently also used by Marbles. It is a good high carbon chrome vandium alloy that takes a good heat treatment and in the words of one punter "cuts like a shrieking witch". it hardens to about 58 Rockwell C but is a bit prone to rust.

CPM-S30V - Stainless, hard, the current favourite stainless amongst collectors & users alike. Might be expsensive as the metallurgic & heat treat process is a bit involved.

A2 - High carbon tool steel with a fine grain, again pone to rust but with a reputation for being sharper than just about any other alloy.
 

Hoodoo

Full Member
Nov 17, 2003
5,302
13
Michigan, USA
Carbon:
osfgreenmicarta1b.jpg


Stainless:
osfstainless1b.jpg


I like 'em both! :lol:
 

Adi007

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 3, 2003
4,080
0
You know Hoodoo, if you got too many knives there, I'll happily take a few off you!

Seriously though, those are mighty fine looking knives!
 

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