New bushcraft magazine issues legal warning...

[soa_uk]

In British Blades there is reference to an new bushcraft magazine issuing legal warnings and complaining about remarks made by some members.

I thought the posting would be of interest to those who admire bushcraft.

 

[Hellz]

Spotted that, it's a shame as I'd have welcomed a decent mag on the subject but think I'll wait now

Got lots of resources right here anyhhow

Hellz

 

[Lifthasir]

What a ham-fisted approach to launching a new product.
Alienating the potential customer base before the product
launches with hard-ball legal statements etc.
I shudder to think what their customer care will be like for any
subscribers who have problems.

I would have thought a less autocratic tone and a more
softly softly approach would be better. Maybe they've managed
to oversubscribe and are trying to turn off other customers so
that they don't have to face customer care issues?

I've now decided not to give their mag a go.

Fiver an issue seemed pricey anyway.

 

[ScottC]

I suggest everyone who recieved spam say so, then a list can be made and a connection investigated. If these email addresses were obtained from a third party in association with BushcraftUK (and I'm not saying they were!!) then those who were affected most likely are all linked in some fashion.

 

[ozzy1977]

It certainly does seem a daft way too launch a new business by spamming and threatening a vast client base, perhaps thats the new way of doing things, but they wont be getting ang of my money now.

 

[BorderReiver]

Regardless of the tone,I think he had a point.

Most of those who had an e mail had been to the site and entered the competition etc.This entitles the site owner to send you a mail does it not?

I know that I am careless about ticking/not ticking the "don't bother me" box,and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

[ESpy]

This is a precis of the legislation covering it - http://www.ico.gov.uk/cms/DocumentUploads/New_rules_on_email_marketing.pdf

I'd also argue that entering the competition was tantamount to consent; that's not the issue.

 

[Lifthasir]

Under the 'Terms' link on their homepage it does mention that if you
enter their online competion you allow them and their sponsor to use
your details (email) to provide you with information and details of products.

However, when you click on the link to enter the competition, there is
no mention or a link to the Terms to alert you of this fact.

This is basically a common, yet legal, 'ruse' to collate emails for marketing
purposes.

The important bit buried in the terms and conditions is that you must
give them two months notice to cancel your subscription PLUS pay them
20% for admin and printing charges.

It also says that by accessing their web site, you automatically agree and
effectively sign up to all their terms and conditons. Perhaps this is the same
with most sites, but then most sites don't start ramming legal enforcement
down peoples necks.

With their hard-nosed legal stance displayed on this site and others, if you
were to cancel five minutes past the deadline, no doubt they would call in
the lawyers to enforce the law and thus get another two months out of you
before then charging you another 2 months (approx.20%) to cancel.

Perhaps they should consider sending the 'boys' round to get people to sign
up.

Hang on, there's a knock at the door...umm..don't recognise them..right, where's my Helle Safari..crickey, there's six of 'em...they've got my credit card...help!

 

[Biddlesby]

This is said at the bottom of the page:

Your details will not be passed to any third party and only be used to send details relating to the Bushcraft & Survival Skills Magazine.

With the form for filling in your email, this is stated:

Submit your email address and recieve regular updates from Bushcraft Magazine

You also "[give] your consent to [bushcraft magazine] collecting and using this information by your use of [bushcraftmagazine] web site." I see no link or reference to these terms and conditions when you enter your email on the front page, nor when it talks about the basha competition, which is arguably misleading.

What did these spam emails consist of? Did they have opt-out links?

This all seems very disappointing of a new magazine.

 

[BorderReiver]

Edited out.Further reading changed my opinion.

 

[Lifthasir]

There is ANOTHER Bushcraft Magazine due out and the web link is
similar to the one we are discussing on this thread.

It is http://www.bushcraft-magazine.co.uk/ (note the hyphen).

In contrast to one discussed in this thread, the magazine asks
you to sign up to reserve a 'single' copy for £2-25, OR subscribe
for a full year (4 editions) for £8-00.

This appears to be a softly softly approach; a try it and see option.

I may give it a whirl for £2-25 and if any good, may subscribe.

Payments are by cheque and postal order only. To subscribe, they ask for
an email address but don't say if they will use it for 'marketing' purposes. I'm
sure if you email them, they will confirm what they will do with email addresses.

I've emailed them to enquire about their terms and conditions re. email addresses

 

[ESpy]

What did these spam emails consist of? Did they have opt-out links?

Quite possibly. But since I never at *any* time opted in, or even implied consent, the issue - for me - of opt-out links is moot.

 

[anthonyyy]

Personally, I will not buy “Bushcrft” magazine until there is a clear, unambiguous, change in their aggressive policy.



The other magazine, http://www.bushcraft-magazine.co.uk) due to come out will get my money.

 

[ozzy1977]

Iknow that by submiting you are agreeing to thet T&C's but arnt you ment to have a button to clik to say no to getting emails

 

[Toddy]

Quite possibly. But since I never at *any* time opted in, or even implied consent, the issue - for me - of opt-out links is moot.

Hear! Hear!

I freely admit I had a look at the site after a posting on bcuk about the magazine. I did not enter *any* competition, I gave no details whatsoever and quite frankly find the aggressive stance taken to be appalling bad manners at best, and at worst it is now attempted intimidation to limit discussion.
Not pleased.

Toddy

 

[spoony]

Personnally i think you all need to get a life, cant really believe how long and far you have all dragged this out, for gods sake so some of you got a email, big deal, just click delete, problem solved, oh no now that would be too easy. I know lets all jump on the band wagon, slate the mag across 2 forums. Did the guy from the mag not post to explain his side??? if so where is it??? hmmmm

Come on sort your selves out, im sure there are more important things to sort out than a email you didnt want.

I mean i got an email from Trail mag the other day, cant remember subscribing to get them. What should i do, read it because i enjoy that kind of thing?? delete it as i dont like spam?? oh i know start a thread slating the mag and never buy it again

 

[ilovemybed]

Can someone who knows about these things perhaps post instructions to see if there are any naughty tracking "Cookies" left behind on your computer after visiting the site? If they emailed you simply after you visited the site without entering your personal details, you can be sure they either nicked your email address from BCUK or some other forum (is it displayed in your profile?) or they lifted it off your computer somehow. Don't know exactly how it happens but I hear it is possible. Not sure if it's legal or not either!

I don't want to put people in an awkward position but I know there are members here who have submitted articles to be published in the magazine. I'm sure they did so in good faith - are any of you in a position to comment, or perhaps invite the publisher/editor to comment on the posts here?

In my opinion there is so much about the subject already available either in previously published books or in the public domain that it's not really worth buying a magazine on the subject unless it can prove it has something new to offer. The knowledge and generosity of the posters on this site proves that a lot can be learnt through cooperation, shared learning and enthusiasm.

A bit of a worry is this: If the publisher insists in pursuing and prosecuting people who reproduce works from the magazine, any subscribers (or others!) who contribute information similar to that in the magazine might well find themselves in receipt of a mail similar to the one on BB. Conversely, what happens if you post some amazing discovery on here and it mysteriously appears in a magazine. What recourse do you have? Either we put a copyright on each of our signatures, sign ownership of any articles/posts to the site owner (Tony) or accept that someone can publish what we've written as it is posted in the public domain. Anyone know anything about this subject

 

[steve a]

Re: reproduction of posts etc, seems your covered
8 COPYRIGHT:
All Website design, text, graphics, and the selection and arrangement thereof, and all source code and all other material on this Website are copyright bushcraft UK or its content providers, unless otherwise expressly indicated. All rights reserved. You are permitted to print or download extracts from this material for your personal use only. None of this material may be used for any commercial or public use. No part of the Website or any material appearing on the Website may be reproduced or stored in or transmitted to any other web site. No material appearing on the Website may be disseminated in any form, either electronic or non-electronic, nor included in any retrieval system or service without the prior written permission of bushcraft UK. Any other use of the material and content of the Website is strictly prohibited. You agree that you will not (and will not assist or facilitate any third party to) copy, reproduce, transmit, publish, display, distribute, commercially exploit or create derivative works of such material and content.

 

[soa_uk]

Personnally i think you all need to get a life, cant really believe how long and far you have all dragged this out, for gods sake so some of you got a email, big deal, just click delete, problem solved, oh no now that would be too easy. I know lets all jump on the band wagon, slate the mag across 2 forums. Did the guy from the mag not post to explain his side??? if so where is it??? hmmmm

Come on sort your selves out, im sure there are more important things to sort out than a email you didnt want.

I mean i got an email from Trail mag the other day, cant remember subscribing to get them. What should i do, read it because i enjoy that kind of thing?? delete it as i dont like spam?? oh i know start a thread slating the mag and never buy it again

Maybe, just maybe somewhere in that evidently hastily typed diatribe you have some point. If it was *just* a complaint about some magazine allegedly spamming people from this site.

If it helps, here is a link to the email from the magazine that somebody received. And here is a response that said the address didn't arrive like that.

If, on the other hand, it was a complaint that someone who had made an apology, then gave some allegedly untruthful responses to questions, and then resorted to legal threats because he didn't like being picked up - you don't have a point.

I know which I think.

 

[Lifthasir]

SPAM is irritating but not the end of the world. We all use the Web and we
do what we can to avoid such things as SPAM.

The Mag editor/owner shouldn't have spat his dummy out when a few people
complained about underhand practises relating to his mag.

Either he is genuinely innocent of what has happened or he has been
sneaky about things and been found out. His 'business' instinct is to
go on the offensive first and worry about customer care last.

Either way, for me it's bad practise and I'm sick of receiving poor service. As
though the seller is doing me a favour. If people want my money, I expect
them to be professional.

This is a magazine that wants all the money upfront. If it folds after a few
issues, are they going to offer refunds or is there yet something else in
their cryptographic Terms and Conditions that will allow them to unleash
their pack of legal wolfhounds into keeping holding of people's cash.

If he had any sense, he would start grovelling now and not stop for a year.

Customer always right Bushcraft Mag? Yes they are if you want their money!!!