Never lend your axe...

[Doc]

‘Never lend your knife.’

‘It is bad manners to ask to borrow someone’s axe. It’s even worse to use it without permission.’

The advice above comes from experts, and there is certainly truth in it. An axe that hits a nail or stone can be damaged in a fraction of a second, but repair can involve hours of tedious regrinding.

All the same, I do lend my axe out at meets. It’s a Gransfors small forest axe, which cost around £45. I have never had any problems. Most people are either skilled, or know their limitations and are simply careful.

I also lent my canoe out one summer. When I got it back, it was in better condition than when it left me. The broken deck plate that I had been meaning to fix had been replaced, and to a standard better than I could do myself.

Mind you, you have to be careful with children. When my eldest son was seven he had a great time at a meet lighting fires with a firesteel and Opinel knife. He was very good at it. Only later did I discover the secret of his success - he had found he got better sparks with the edge of the blade rather than the back. I reground it – eventually - and now I have an Opinel stiletto.

 

[sxmolloy]

When my eldest son was seven he had a great time at a meet lighting fires with a firesteel and Opinel knife. He was very good at it. Only later did I discover the secret of his success - he had found he got better sparks with the edge of the blade rather than the back. I reground it – eventually - and now I have an Opinel stiletto.

Love it!!!!!!

 

[Toddy]

I can still hear Graham_S, "Ross, that won't burn." "Well, you know......"
The boy wore out one of the big firesteels into a bent sliver by the end of the weekend and discovered more tinder that would take a spark than any of us knew. Admittedly it was a scorcher of a Summer weekend.
and Doc's face as he tried restraint on what had happened to his knife blade

Usually at the bigger Scottish meet ups one or two of us take along an axe, that though good, we're not precious about. This allows folks to learn how to use one without feeling under any pressure.
That it also encourages folks to cut up the firewood is only a good thing
One of the sharpening gurus usually spends some time showing how to restore the edge on the axe too

Talking about that, Russ bought a froe, and brings it along expecting folks to use it. No sharp edges, yet used properly it cracks log apart for firewood very effectively

cheers,
Toddy

 

[ged]

‘Never lend your knife.’

‘It is bad manners to ask to borrow someone’s axe. It’s even worse to use it without permission.’

It's already been established that my education has been, well, at least suspect in some areas, and this might be one of them, but I've never heard those sayings.

Learning about tools and how to use them unfortunately involves breaking a few. It isn't until you've done that a few times that you start to get a feel for what they'll take with ease, how far you can push them if you have to, and when to do it different way. Sometimes you know that a tool will be damaged beyond economical repair when you abuse it but it's worth it to get the job done.

I'd have no problem in principle lending most of my tools to anyone, but I'd take a view on a case-by-case basis. If someone asked if he could borrow my favourite machete at a meet I'd lend it to him almost without thinking about it. If someone asked if he could borrow it for a weekend trip without me I'd say no, and lend him a better one instead because my favourite has sentimental value. One of my dogs, now long dead, chewed the handle and I keep it in its chewed state to remind me of him. He would chew anything that had my sweat on it. I would give away four FKMD parangs, a dozen multi-tools and a shedload of assorted other bits of kit rather than lose that machete, but if the blade gets a ding I really don't care a hoot, it's had plenty of those already. I have tools that probably wouldn't fetch 50 pence at a car boot sale but which I don't take far outside the workshop because they're too valuable to me to risk losing. I have tools which are expensive, but which are very easily replaced. No big deal.

If I think it's worth someone (e.g. me) learning about a tool by using it, but there's a risk of damage to it, then it's just a trade. The last time I remember learning really fast about a tool was when I bought a straight grinder. Using that for the first time made me realize how much I knew about angle grinders (I have at least a dozen) that I didn't know about a straight grinder. Unfortunately the tungsten carbide cutters for the straight grinder are about twenty-five quid each, and they're rotating at around 30,000 rpm. So when you make a mistake they're destroyed in about two milliseconds. I think I destroyed five or six before I got the hang of it, but that tool reaches places and does things that nothing else can.

The saw blade on my Victorinox multi-tool seems to be popular at meets. I lend it out, but I like to keep an eye on what it gets up to because if that blade were broken, replacement might be problematic. My wife bought it for me, so I'd be slightly saddened if it were lost or irreparably damaged, but she could buy me another one.

 

[Toddy]

It's quite common among tool using folks.
Don't borrow another joiners tools, or a blacksmiths, or an archaeologist's

That's why we take some along to lend.

I disagree about breaking tools.
In all the years I've used them I have never broken one.

I tell a lie, I delaminated a knife. That was a quality control issue though, not abuse.

There's no need to test a tool to destruction to learn how to use it, or how good it is either.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[ged]

I disagree about breaking tools.
In all the years I've used them I have never broken one.

What's the smallest twist drill you've ever used?

 

[MSkiba]

Some people do not understand this. i.e. non bushcrafters and they think your a weirdo for being so prescious about a knife or axe. As pointed out above, most people will not notice a chip in a sharpie, but the owner will and it will take hours to fix.

If a friend has a new shiney knife, I love to inspect it and drool on it, but I will never attempt to test it as its not mine to test.

 

[Toddy]

What's the smallest twist drill you've ever used?

0.1mm and I used a press.

I make 12th scale miniatures; I grew up in a model engineering family, I learned early how to be careful with tools
Not quite relevant to this topic though.

The knife and axe courtesies are very widely accepted among bushcrafters.

cheers,
M

 

[Tengu]

Probably smaller than that.

I too make models.

And I never let friends with small children near my house, Ive had too much of the "let them play with it, its only a toy" attitude.

 

[CaptainBeaky]

I have a sliding scale on lending tools - the "happy about lending" factor depends on the tool and the person borrowing it.
Most tools, including knives and axes, I lend happily to anyone not classed as a muppet.
Except my GB double-bit and carving axe - not many get to borrow those, due to possible damage to the borrower or edge respectively.

And my chisels don't get borrowed at all.

Ever.

They still live in their original slip case, which still has the instructions my Dad wrote on it nearly 30 years ago:
Keep Me Clean
Keep Me Oiled
Keep Me Sharp

and they are (if slightly shorter than they started out)

No-one gets to borrow my chisels...

 

[Everything Mac]

And my chisels don't get borrowed at all.

Ever.

They still live in their original slip case, which still has the instructions my Dad wrote on it nearly 30 years ago:
Keep Me Clean
Keep Me Oiled
Keep Me Sharp

and they are (if slightly shorter than they started out)

No-one gets to borrow my chisels...

rightly so.

 

[shaggystu]

i will no longer let anyone borrow my gransfors axe, the reasons are two fold, firstly it's damn annoying if someone chips the blade and i have to spend hours sharpening it out but this isn't the main reason, i've chipped the blade and it takes just as long to sharpen out when i've chipped it as it does when someone else has. the main reason (the important one) is that whenever i lend it someone they end up bleeding, don't know why, i'm fairly sure i've never cut myself with it, it just seems to like biting other folk for some reason.

with other tools i've got a sliding scale the same as most people, i've lent some tools to people and they've come back a proper mess, but then i thought that they probably would, and i'd lend them again. some tools i've lent out and they've come back in exactly the same state as i lent them, but i didn't like being parted from them and won't lend them again.

some tools are special, some tools are just lumps of metal, i do agree with ged that it's got nothing at all to do with the financial value of a tool. no-one's borrowing my grandad's pit belt knife even though it's worth next to nothing but i lent my mcculloch chainsaw (at about £140 by far the most expensive tool i've ever owned) to a mate about 6 months ago and had completely forgotten about it until reading this thread.

cheers

stuart

 

[British Red]

I ought to tell the story of "Mr Choppy"

I was camped out with wingstoo, pioneer and a few others a few years back. About 6am the noise of this incessant woodpecker thudding started...and continued.....and continued. Eventually I tested the "bomb burst" facility of my bag and exited yelling "*** is going on you ****** %$^$ ****er".

Patrick was attempting to split wood with an axe that was nearly (but not quite) as sharp as a brick hammer.

My razor sharp axe was propped up under the wood store cover.

Why are using that piece of sh**? I asked (I am a cheeful little angel when woken in a hurry).

"Because that is your axe, its too good for me and I can't fix it if I break it" said he.

He earned the nickname "Mr Choppy". I earned the nickname "Mr Grumpy"

I miss Patrick - a good guy

Red

 

[Tengu]

At least he was honest

 

[British Red]

he was a real gent - one of the nicest men I have met - with tache that would make Windsor Davis blush!

 

[dwardo]

I lent a little hatchet to a friend a while back, i gave him some basic safety lessons and how to car for it.
He then lent it to HIS friend who beat it to death with a 5lb lump hammer whilst trying to split a twisted lump of seasoned cherry.
It was hit that hard it spat the wedge out and rounded the poll. Not a happy man as it took me weeks to get it back in condition.

So never lend an axe and if you do ask the person not to lend it further!

 

[ged]

0.1mm and I used a press. ... Not quite relevant to this topic though.

Do I detect a little reluctance to talk about twist drill breakages? No matter, I won't, er, press you on it.

...About 6am the noise of this incessant woodpecker thudding started...and continued.....and continued. Eventually I ... "*** is going on you ****** %$^$ ****er".

What's the point of going to sleep out in the woods if you're going to be annoyed by being woken up by a woodpecker? That would be my idea of heaven. I'd throw him a few peanuts and get the kettle on.

We are a funny lot, really we are.

 

[British Red]

Err...it wasn't a woodpecker...as I'm sure you understand from the rest of the post

 

[Toddy]

And no, I'm not guilty of breaking twist drills, even my tiny ones It's just good practice to use the drillpress; besides, it kept the holes in line

cheers,
M

 

[British Red]

I've broken a few in my life - it annoys me hugely. I'd be very embarassed to do that with another persons tool