Native Americans Russell Means

[TLM]

A lot of the so called indigenous people where in more or less balance with their surroundings because they did not have the technological means to really screw it up.

I kind of learned that after realizing that most of the littering in Lapland is done by the locals, including Sami. Somewhat cynical of me but I still haven't been able to drop the engineer's habit of deailing with realities.

 

[1 pot hunter]

Thank you for the heads up I had no idea about that. You have just proved what black elk told me almost 30 years ago, and he was not an astronomist, he just told me the predictions of his grandfather. He was in his eighties then, so we are going back to well before astronomy was as advanced as it is now.
Scoff at that if anyone wants.
I would not scoff at others beliefs, so I actualy find it quite nasty minded to do so to my beliefs. Respect costs nothing, and proves, yet again what I said before about cynicism and rejection of anything other than the here and now. Spirituality is not popular here is it?
Yet you all go to the woods to chill out and revive your spirits. Spouting about connecting with nature.
Do you not see how it all connects?

Nothing wrong with spirituality

 

[Woody girl]

I'm sorry but,
a)I'm not an elder, native American or a teacher.
b) it's taken me 30 years of study, listening, questioning, discarding, and realising that things were as told me to be able to put succinct answers here in a way that would not make you even more sceptical and create a problem on this thread. I don't want yet another slanging match and putting down of my thoughts, so I'm not going to make a detailed reply. I'm going to abide by the mods wishes and not ignore their warnings.
c) if you realy want to know, try doing some study yourself with an open mind.
One bit of advice I was given was, Never discount anything and throw it away.
If it doesn't seem to fit now, put it on a shelf in your mind, and revisit occasionally.
One day, that bit of the puzzle will fit in somewhere and you will wonder why you never saw it before.
It will make sense, but you need an open mind, not one full of scepticism and denial of anything that doesn't "fit" your current world view.
The truth is out there Scully.
It's just not easy to find, and is often obscured.

 

[Nice65]

One of the things I admire most about ancient peoples beliefs , is there aren’t any gurus, just a kind of matter of factness about the beliefs passed from elders or from meditation. There’s no boasting, you don’t have to believe it, listen to it, you’re not required to do anything with it, but still people get all opinionated.

 

[Kav]

I am on the tribal rolls of the Choctaw, Cherokee and Osage
Nations. My cousin is actor Wes Studi. I was adopted into the White Mountain Apache as a child.
My avocation and academic background is Archaeology,
Pan North American and many other cultures have a ethos of respecting Elders: We don’t have retirement homes or dismiss traditional skills for the latest shiny object.
It has nothing to do with ‘Gurus’ or
Plasticcindians like Grey Wolf or Tom Brown’s apocryphal grandfather.
As for green comets, Mayan calendars, dream catchers, burning sage? There is a lot of misinformation and abuse. It is also
A body of ritual and thought open to all.
There is a Chumash cave I recorded in a remote rock shelter. It has a green comet. People used to look at the night sky instead of the Telly for news.

 

[nigelp]

There are five billion human beings and in a certain way I think we need five billion different religions, because there is such a large variety of dispositions. I believe that each individual should embark upon a spiritual path that is best suited to his or her mental disposition, natural inclination, temperament, belief, family and cultural background.

Dalai Lama

 

[Broch]

There are five billion human beings and in a certain way I think we need five billion different religions, because there is such a large variety of dispositions. I believe that each individual should embark upon a spiritual path that is best suited to his or her mental disposition, natural inclination, temperament, belief, family and cultural background.

Dalai Lama

I have

 

[Kav]

A lot of the so called indigenous people where in more or less balance with their surroundings because they did not have the technological means to really screw it up.

I kind of learned that after realizing that most of the littering in Lapland is done by the locals, including Sami. Somewhat cynical of me but I still haven't been able to drop the engineer's habit of deailing with realities.

Define littering. Are we talking global economy products like condoms, aluminum beer cans and
Styrofoam? Those are artifacts of the contemporary Scandinavian consumer cultures, not Sami. Fact is, pre modern trash maddens are rather rare.
Cultures rise and many fall or become absorbed or absorbed others. Your armchair condemnation implies a superior
One. Do share it’s accomplishments.

 

[Tengu]

The Saami are always portrayed as being tech savvy; though I doubt they are any different to many city or country folks.

 

[Kav]

Bashing Native peoples is SOP be it
Exiled Egyptians killing Canaanites or Kipling’s ‘White Man’s Burden.’
Then the engineers move in to put Nature to right.

 

[Kav]

Evening post tea thought! The Dinosaurs were in trouble when a
Giant meteor? Slammed into the Yucatán peninsula . Some theorize it, and the Tunguska blast may have been COMETS
I was being taught the cosmology of the Coahuila people down in the magical 29 Palms desert. I’m recording ancient gods and animals
That I knew as Classical figures.
I noticed one twinkling all by its lonesome. ‘ Grandfather, what is that one?’ THAT, is a communications satellite.’
Dennis Banks may have a different world view, but he still puts his blue jeans on one leg at a time and makes coffee in the morning during prayers.

 

[Wander]

Again, the questions are being dodged.
I don't doubt there is a cave painting with a green comet on it. Throughout the world, throughout human history, people have depicted all sorts of astronomical and natural phenomena. Even the the artist Michael Hutter did a painting of a green comet in the 1960s.
No, that is beyond dispute.
What I am asking, and what keeps getting avoided is, as a believer in the wisdom of the elders,
Either,
If you believe the comet to be a herald of some 'shizzy hitting the fizzy' (it's always a catastrophe, eh? Never something good. Even pre-industrial omens predict disaster. That alone is the true lesson of these events - the human desire for catastrophe porn and fear. Heavens Gate, anyone?), then how does that comet know about it - given the comet's origins as a spare bit of rock from the creation of the solar system? Or is it something else? And what is your evidence for that, beyond taking some wise elder's word for it?
Or,
If you believe the comet is the source of this catastrophe, then how does the comet actually deliver that horror, given it's immense distance from us (admittedly, in astronomical terms it's comparatively on our doorstep)? Where does that power come from in an inanimate piece of rock that is completely indifferent to our existence? Or is it not indifferent? And if not, what evidence do you have beyond coincidences?

If the knowledge of this green comet has been passed down by the elders, and given it's 50,000 year orbit, that's a heck of a game of Chinese Whispers - and we all know how wrong that can go after just a few exchanges. But now some wise elder has uttered it, it gets a free pass?
As for the cave painting - I did a Google image search but couldn't find it. I'd be grateful for someone to post a picture here. Who says it's a comet? It could well be, of course, but could be many other things. And given the 50,000 year orbit it's unlikely this particular painting depicts this particular comet - no cave paintings (not least in the Americas) survive from that long ago. But even if this one happens to be that old, then why is it green? Is that a literal depiction, when so much other cave art is symbolic? Is it green because that's what they saw or because that's the colour they happen to have? How do you know?

I'll leave those points hanging in the air. Answer or ignore them as you wish.
Woody Girl made a very wise (elder) comment about being open-minded - it pays to think about what you are told rather than glibly accept it.
After all, if you are too open-minded all that happens is your brain falls out and next you'll be drinking the kool-aid because a wise man tells you so. Even worse, you may find yourself watching Jordan Peterson videos on Youtube, at which point I would heartily recommend you to start gulping that kool-aid with gusto.
I'll leave it there.

 

[Kav]

IF you reread my post, I- me, myself, moi found said Rock art.
AND if you knew anything about
California Archaeology, It has NOT
Been made public for it’s protection
And the sensitive significance to said people. And NO, it is not this particular comet, having a different tail.
OCCAM’S razor is not a roofing tile
To flay Librarians representing older and potentially hostile traditions to your mechanical construct of a Universe with comets neatly squared in ice cube trays.

 

[Wander]

Nice try. Have another go.

 

[TLM]

Define littering. Are we talking global economy products like condoms, aluminum beer cans and
Styrofoam?

I don't think that word really needs to be defined. In this case it was mostly beer cans, in places that are accessible only by foot or for the locals ATV or snowmobile.

#1 son collected a plastic bag full and brought them out, said that that was his part countering the littering reindeer herders.

 

[TLM]

The Saami are always portrayed as being tech savvy; though I doubt they are any different to many city or country folks.

Nowadays they are people of Sami origin more than anything. But yes they use technology like everyone else, though not always realizing all the effects, no different from std nonthinking population.

About 20 y ago I was stopping by a house in the village of Näkkälä close to the "shoulder". The old lady who came to see the odd walker (end September) started to complain about the price of petrol, well that was not cheap even then but the reason was interesting. She said that thenadays reindeer could not really be herded without ATVs or snowmobiles as they tend to run so fast. The reason for that was according to her because they were herded by ATVs or snowmobiles.

I thought for a moment and decided against saying much anything. Started the last stretch of my walk to Hetta.

 

[Tengu]

As an Archaeologist I would have a lot of trouble with a cavepainting of a green comet.

Making the colour green is difficult; most cave paintings are black.

Some have white, red or yellow.

Green or blue...well...

 

[Woody girl]

As an Archaeologist I would have a lot of trouble with a cavepainting of a green comet.

Making the colour green is difficult; most cave paintings are black.

Some have white, red or yellow.

Green or blue...well...

Malachite makes a green paint, and is easy enough to make a natural pigmented paint from. It's got a lot of copper in it.

 

[Kav]

As an Archaeologist I would have a lot of trouble with a cavepainting of a green comet.

Making the colour green is difficult; most cave paintings are black.

Some have white, red or yellow.

Green or blue...well...

As an archaeologist, I wouldn’t come blundering onto a Roman Army encampment or Saxon burial
And apply California excavation strategies or expect dentalium shell beads and chert projectile points.

 

[bearbait]

There are five billion human beings and in a certain way I think we need five billion different religions, because there is such a large variety of dispositions. I believe that each individual should embark upon a spiritual path that is best suited to his or her mental disposition, natural inclination, temperament, belief, family and cultural background.

Dalai Lama

I think that we actually reached 8 billion humans at the end of last year. So, perhaps another 3 billion religions need to be initiated, methinks?