Mugginses out in the hills

[Wook]

I've been watching "Highland Emergency" lately - it's one of my favourite programmes. It is about the rescue helicopters that patrol Scotland.

I watched an episode the other day that left me scratching my head.

There was a woman out on a "team building" exercise with her work. She hiked 13km out to a bothy and she was so out of shape that her ankles swelled up so much she couldn't walk. They summoned the chopper and had her airlifted back to civilisation.

This left me scratching my head for 2 reasons.

If she wasn't fit for a 13km hike, she'd have known after 2 km. Why didn't she turn back? Did she not want to lose face in front of her colleagues?

Or failing that - why didn't she wait and see if she would recover? She was safe and warm in the bothy, with companions, food and drink. A good nights kip and she might have been OK to gingerly head back. Why waste a precious resource like the chopper?

I sometimes wonder if these management training wilderness experience deals are a good idea. They seem to account for a disproportionate number of avoidable incidents.

 

[Retired Member southey]

I've been watching "Highland Emergency" lately - it's one of my favourite programmes. It is about the rescue helicopters that patrol Scotland.

I watched an episode the other day that left me scratching my head.

There was a woman out on a "team building" exercise with her work. She hiked 13km out to a bothy and she was so out of shape that her ankles swelled up so much she couldn't walk. They summoned the chopper and had her airlifted back to civilisation.

This left me scratching my head for 2 reasons.

If she wasn't fit for a 13km hike, she'd have known after 2 km. Why didn't she turn back? Did she not want to lose face in front of her colleagues?

probably matey, you know what these office cooler clicks are like, why didnt the leader asses each of the group and tailor the trip to the weakest member.

Or failing that - why didn't she wait and see if she would recover? She was safe and warm in the bothy, with companions, food and drink. A good nights kip and she might have been OK to gingerly head back. Why waste a precious resource like the chopper?

Probably a knee jerk reaction of they didnt report her full condition on the show, or they had to be back at work early?

I sometimes wonder if these management training wilderness experience deals are a good idea. They seem to account for a disproportionate number of avoidable incidents.

Yup, stupid idea.

 

[woof]

The problem is these people lie, when asked about their physical fitness, their ability to walk long distance, & how much/do you have the right gear in your pack ?. I have been told, "yes, i've been walking 5 miles every day, for the last month", "yes, i have well & truly broken my new boots in", "yes, i have hat/gloves/waterproof/water/food etc..in my pack, its just a very light pack". The last one from a guy who had nothing at all in his pack. "yes i have all the walking gear" & they turn up in trainers, T shirt & shorts in november.
Then they whinge & cry & moan & beg, borrow & steal off everyone who has prepared properly & taken the time to train for what they are going to do...needless to say i stopped doing work related trips.

On a similar note, i retired one of my dogs & advertised him on the works computer, & was approached by a huge fat woman who said she wanted him. I tried to be diplomatic in how i explained that the dog still required a huge amount of exercise(springer) i was told she did regular long walks etc.. i then lost my temper saying "looking at the size of you that is blatantly untrue ", boy did that bring down a poo storm on my head !,

Rob

 

[Retired Member southey]

Hahahaha the truth often does Woof, brilliant! but I don't think we should be afraid to tell people what we think sometimes,

 

[Wook]

Of course in many respects I have no right to stand in judgement on this woman. I'm out of shape and haven't done actual hill walking regularly for years. What exercise I do get is mostly bicycling. I doubt if I would be fit for a 13km hike without training first.

However, what makes me different from her is if someone asked me if I was ready for such a hike I would tell the truth!! rather than lie and end up costing the rescue services a bloody fortune because I was too proud to give an honest appraisal of my abilities.

My 7 year old daughter has asked if we can start hiking together. As soon as we get some nice weather at the weekend, we'll make a start. And we'll do so carefully, within our own limits and with the right equipment.

It's not rocket science....

 

[Retired Member southey]

Dont get hung up on the cost of it, its all budgeted for and any flying goes toward pilots flying hours which many are struggling to get anyhow

 

[woof]

I would tell the truth!! rather than lie and end up costing the rescue services a bloody fortune because I was too proud to give an honest appraisal of my abilities.

My 7 year old daughter has asked if we can start hiking together. As soon as we get some nice weather at the weekend, we'll make a start. And we'll do so carefully, within our own limits and with the right equipment.

It's not rocket science....

Well said, i turned down the chance to do the 3 peaks earlier this year, as i don't consider i was fit enough.

Rob

 

[Retired Member southey]

HA! just reminded me of a brilliant day spent trundling up,down and around the Ben, when we sat on top for a spot of lunch a chap came weezing over a satdown heavy but whooping a shouting at his equally out of breath mate, both in Three Peaks charity type tops, the fit chap with them who I took to be their guide followed with three day sacks!, he didnt look at all happy, wandered over sat down, swore sailor style, I asked had it been a hard day, He replied that it was only just beginning, the first hill!!!!! hahahahahaha we wished him luck as he went and dumped the bags on the two weezers, swore again and trotted off with them following at a distance

 

[Limaed]

Well this type of thing accounts for a large part of the work of the rescue services involved. A lot of folk underestimate what they are taking on and don't prepare enough before hand. It also takes a leader with considerable experience to cancel an adventure activity particularly when a financial incentive is involved and in my experience some just wont make the call until it is too late.
You are correct that perhaps the lady could have made it out the next day, however folk often have limited medical knowledge and the safest bet is to get her of the hill.

Although clearly a SAR Helicopter is an expensive thing to run the government have to provide it as part of international conventions for rescuing civilian and military aircrew. Fortunately there aren't to many aircraft crashes these days so helping to rescue other folk keeps the crews skills up to date.

 

[Shewie]

Give her the bill, she won't do it again

 

[sasquatch]

There was a top tip in Viz years back for a free helicopter ride. It involved scaling Ben Nevis in trainers and minimal gear...

 

[Wook]

Give her the bill, she won't do it again

I have no idea how much these things cost, but I do know that a Sea King burns around £500 worth of aviation fuel every hour. Add into that the cost of 5 helicopter crew, maybe 12 ground crew, operators at the control centre, wear and tear on the aircraft, ambulance crew waiting on the ground.....

... the true cost of even just 1 hour of their time could easily be over £1000.

 

[kiltedpict]

I regularly train with the RAF and they quote about £2000 / hr- that was a while ago so with increased fuel costs...

We get them down to the hospital for training once or twice a year and they never charge- it's all part of their training- rescuing civilians is the best training they can actually do for rescuing downed military aircraft / personnel. When they are not rescuing hillwalkers etc, then they are out pretending to rescue hillwalkers etc (amongst other things obviously!)

KP

 

[rik_uk3]

The woman in question may not have know how hard she had pushed herself (why would she 'know' after 2km?), maybe thought she had to get through the 'pain barrier'. Swollen ankles could also be from a prior medical condition she knows about and felt she needed help. There may be more to it than initially appears.

 

[Wook]

There may well be more than meets the eye here, although the helicopter paramedic said when he was interviewed that the woman "just wasn't used to walking long distances over rough ground". When he was asking her about her medical history he asked how much exercise she took - she looked embarrassed and replied somewhat cryptically "I keep active".

In any case - regardless of what was really going on, relying on a helicopter to come and save you is a bad idea.

The helicopter is there for when the faeces hit the oscillating wind making device - not to make up for urine-like poor planning. As a general principle you should never get yourself into a situation that you cannot get yourself out of without help.

She's very fortunate it went down the way it did. She could have gotten herself (or someone else) killed by venturing out into the Cairngorms unprepared.

 

[rik_uk3]

There may well be more than meets the eye here, although the helicopter paramedic said when he was interviewed that the woman "just wasn't used to walking long distances over rough ground". When he was asking her about her medical history he asked how much exercise she took - she looked embarrassed and replied somewhat cryptically "I keep active".

In any case - regardless of what was really going on, relying on a helicopter to come and save you is a bad idea.

The helicopter is there for when the faeces hit the oscillating wind making device - not to make up for urine-like poor planning. As a general principle you should never get yourself into a situation that you cannot get yourself out of without help.

She's very fortunate it went down the way it did. She could have gotten herself (or someone else) killed by venturing out into the Cairngorms unprepared.

A bit harsh there chap. Everybody starts somewhere, we all make mistakes, some big, some small. The main thing is she knew when she needed help and is safe and well.

Using your logic you could argue that smokers and alcoholics should not get NHS treatment, same with diabetics who won't conform. We should be thankful we have free services like MRT and the NHS.

 

[redandshane]

I wouldn't get too excited about a TV program. Also I do not hold the woman responsible at all. She was on a team building exercise so there would have been preparation and obviously that included getting someone in trouble out of a situation if required

Now if they had all gone home and left her that might have been different but not great TV

13mile 3 miles 130miles completely unexpected stuff happens sometimes so its about knowing what to do if it does that counts.

I do like the VIZ tip

Fancy a free exciting helicopter winch from a sand bank Take a long walk out on the Solway Firth as the tide is coming in
Disclaimer
May only be a ride in a inshore rescue boat depending on circumstances

Happens every year

 

[Wook]

She was on a team building exercise so there would have been preparation and obviously that included getting someone in trouble out of a situation if required

If their "preparation" consisted of expecting the RAF to drop everything to bail them out, then that was a lousy plan. If I was the company who booked the teambuilding course, I'd be looking at finding myself a new provider for next year.

The RAF might have been busy. They might have had mechanical problems. The MRT might have been 50 miles away dealing with another emergency.

Far better to avoid getting into these situations.

I agree 100% that these people do good work, but you should not rely on their being there. Calling in help should not be your plan A if something goes wrong, or even plan B or C.

A lot of people with little experience or equipment seem to expect the emergency services to be able to get them out of foolish situations that they could have easily avoided. Some of them pay for this assumption with their lives.

 

[widu13]

We should be thankful we have free services like MRT and the NHS.

They ain't free! They would also be a lot cheaper without paying for smokers, alcoholics and diabetics who won't conform.

I'm a fan of charging them more for these NHS services and a stupidity tax for causing swollen ankles in unsuitable areas. IF and I say if, someone pushes themselves to the limit and beyond whilst walking away from safety, then the stupidity light becomes activated and emergency services rendered should be paid for by the individual or group organiser. (That would focus the "mountain leader's" mind!).

Businesses are charged for false fire alarms, there aren't a deal of businesses who continue to have false alarms.

Just to clarify, accidents and genuine injuries/conditions that could not have been foreseen should remain free. Acts of stupidity i.e. walking up a gently sloping grassy "hill" to 2000' on a sunny dry day and then giving up because the mist has dropped, or exposure is setting in because it's raining and no equipment was taken should be paid for.

 

[Toddy]

I'm with Wook on this one.
It's not a money thing, it's a life threatening and misuse of resources thing.

In many cases these call outs are totally avoidable. Every year there are warnings issued about Scottish hills (and Welsh & English ones too, one presumes) and every year some numpty needs recovered, not from an accident, not from illness or mischance, but from sheer glaikit stupidity.

My husband, sons and friends walk and climb in the hills, I'm very, very grateful and reassured that the Mountain Rescue teams and the helicopter crews, and the lifeboat crews, are both motivated and well trained.
I dread to think of just how bad some of the incidents could become if folks decided to carry on or try to get themselves out of trouble because they knew they were going to be billed 10's of 1,000's of £'s. I do think everyone who is rescued should offer to fundraise for, or do a media interview and give every penny to, the rescue charities though.
Maybe more media hype would make folks think twice about their physical or equipment preparedness for such activities, especially in our very changeable climate.

Team building exercise ? sometimes office politics are more than a touch rabid

cheers,
Toddy