Mountain Survival

[Roy's Badger]

Hello guys,

thought I might pick your brains... I am thinking about an exped to the High Atlas mountains, and although I have extensive desert exped experience, I haven't got any mountain experience at all. So, I'm asking for any 'top tips' you may have; kit, bivvies, tarp shelters, techniques, thoughts, etc. The constraints will be size/weight of kit (smaller the better, sub 50 ltr if poss), differences in temp, protection from the sun, water, etc, etc.

So, up for the challenge? Any input greatly appreciated.

 

[Spacemonkey]

I have thought of driving down there and having a crack myself. If you do do the trip, please post a report in glorious technicolour!

 

[Phil562]

This may be teaching you to suck eggs however this can be a pointer to others who follow in your footsteps.

But, in my opinion many people fail on any type of expedition because of their lack physical/mental fitness.

I am not saying you have to be a high class athelete

I have spent some time in the mountains and in the desert and the people who find it toughest are those who are not physically/mentally prepared for the different surroundings.

On kit, the list is long, but may not differ from the desert surprisingly that much.

But what ever you decide to take, one thing many people recommend and I whole heartedly agree with is to get it on your back and test it out, if theres a niggle or problem with it adjust it and test again.

Failure to Prepare is to Prepare to Fail

Good luck and let us all know how you got on.

 

[Nyayo]

Hiya - sounds great! First - are you considering the more 'technical' end of climbing?bushcraft and mountaineering doesn't always work well - climbing often requires loads of gubbins, and is ruthlessly selective towards small, light kit (invariably high-tech, artificial materials), rather than hand-made, natural equipment which is preferred by bushcrafters. This having been said, bushcrafters tend to share many of the attitudes of the Alpine school of climbing - ultra lightweight, focussed and fast missions where a very specific goal (and the necessary kit) is the aim of the mission.

Howver, most climbing expeditions tend to fail because of failure in Teamwork, communication, willpower or mental resolve, rather than the lack of kit. Get to know your team-mates, use a Buddy system, practise the tricky bits, and pre-plan what you're going to do. (I'm guessing you probably do all this stuff anyway for any serious mission).

Have a good one!

 

[Roy's Badger]

Thanks guys. Not looking at technical mountaineering, more a trek with some bushcraft techniques practiced for the fun of it. Have been watching the 'mountain basha' thread with interest, but need some more ideas, really...

 

[SMARTY]

Hey Roys Badger,

I've heard that the RAF have trained there. Perhaps you could get some info from their web site. :

 

[Roy's Badger]

Thanks Smarty :You_Rock_

however, I don't want to go too 'army-barmy'- although I like some of the military teaching, I don't plan on being chased by big hairy men thru the mountains... each to their own, tho...

 

[Phil562]

Don't knock till you have tried it

 

[leon-1]

Here is a straight one from the Mountain and Arctic warfare cadre.

For every 1000 feet you increase your altitude the temperature will drop by between 3 to 5 degrees.

So beware nights they can get very cold in desert conditions even more so when you are stuck on a mountain.

 

[Phil562]

I'd agree with that Leon, my first time in a desert I wore thermals in my sleeping bag with a fleece liner and a bivi bag in a big bedouin tent, mind you I was toasty till I had to get up for a pee

 

[Roy's Badger]

Thanks fellas, this is what I'm after :You_Rock_

Interestingly enough, the bloke with the nice hair suggested relieving yourself into a plastic bottle and using it to warm you up.... works, just make sure it's the right bottle...

 

[Phil562]

Or the bottles big enough :yikes:

 

[leon-1]

Thanks fellas, this is what I'm after :You_Rock_

Interestingly enough, the bloke with the nice hair suggested relieving yourself into a plastic bottle and using it to warm you up.... works, just make sure it's the right bottle...

That's fair, ideally don't go to bed with a full bladder as the fluid will stay nice and warm near your core and help to keep you warm, but if you do, the above is a good solution.

 

[Roy's Badger]

Only problem is, Leon, that to keep your number 1 & 2s warm, your body is burning calories, which is less than ideal. Unless you're going to cuddle your poo in the night as well...

 

[Fivesenses]

Dehydration and Hypothermia come to mind. Plus the lack of wood.

 

[Rod]

Hi RB,

Sounds like you have a good trip planned.

My tips would be to make sure that you drink at least 4 litres of water per day. Dehydration at altitude is very serious. Also, you will need to increase your calorie in-take per day to, give or take, 4500 per day - you will burn it off! Your mind and body will need the input. Remember that lunch starts where breakfast ends.

Pay attention to any sort of minor injury - even a blister or small cut - straight away. You are away from the convenience of doctors/hospitals etc and the emergency services are not as on-hand as we have here. Infections can be more than serious.

Make every piece of kit you carry count. Lighter comfortable clothing for the days and plenty of warm stuff at night. A good down jacket (Rab Neutrino or similar) will be worth its weight in gold. Also a good down sleeping bag. Down is a far superior insulator vs. synthetics and the atmosphere will not be as damp as ours - so keeping things dry is easier. A down bag weighing 1500g will keep you at leat 5 degrees warmer that a synth bag of the same weight and will pack up a heck of a lot smaller.

A pee bottle - as mentioned earlier - is very sensible at night. At least 1 litre capacity with a good wide opening and secure cap! Should be obvious Incidentally, peeing on a cut, graze or open blister will help to clean the wound and help prevent infection.

I have come into bushcraft from a background of many years in the mountains and mountainous trekking.

Hope that some of this helps. If you have any more specific questions you could pm me

cheers

 

[Roy's Badger]

Cheers Rod, just what I'm after.

Ok guys, moving this one on a bit... you've been in a hypothetical plane crash but, good bushcrafter that you are, you still have your kit with you (or have whittled what you need from the carcasses/bits of scrap). What are your thoughts on:

Stay or Move?
What sort of shelter? (using a tarp or natural materials)
What clothing?
Fire?
Navigation techniques?
Water procurement?
Water and food requirements have already been covered by Grasshopper.

Ok guys, over to you.... impress me!!! :You_Rock_

 

[jdlenton]

I too as with rod have come to bushcraft after a long period of climbing and mountain walking mainly in the UK north Wales and Scotland but with some alpine too

Now to your questions

• Stay or move depends on location if you are above the snow line I would say have a good look if you can at what is below descend and move a way from the crash site in the direction of what you think will give you the best resources leaving some sort of indication of your direction of travel and your intentions your names and the date you think you crashed. If you are below the snow line say in a nice wooded valley I would stay put and see what resources you have around you. Again this is all conjecture as you might have come down in a winter blizzard and be battling for your life from the off and the decisions you make will be forced and can’t be considered.
• Shelter anything you can lay your hands on to make a reasonable wind proof, water resistant heat reflecting shelter that you could use to get/stay dry and warm , sleep in comfortably.
• Clothing again this is condition based but anything you can salvage that will keep you safe from the elements cold, wet , or the sun.
• Fire well you say you have your kit so you should have tinder and lighting equipment on your person minimum if not its use something from the plane or you bushcraft knowledge.
• Navigation again you say you have your kit so you should have a compass if not its either time to use the shadow stick method to determine east and west or if you have a analogue watch use that and the sun to determine where south is, your light air carft may have had a magnetic compass in it too, if the night is clear you can use the pole star and if you carry a small planisphere in you pack (like I doo because I love the stars) and a watch you can determine directions using the position of the stars.
• Water procurement hope fully you have a container so its either melt snow ,find your self a stream/bog/mountain lake or damp gound to dig into.

This is all a bit general and I haven’t covered any desert stuff , who knows what you would be forced into by circumstance but I had fun thinking about it



James

 

[Kirruth]

I like remote mountain places, so go every year

The real key to safety is to take local advice - talk to local people about the weather, the conditions, what roads are closed, where are the rockslides. Ask them about the plants, the animals, get them to show you what they do, how they are used - the people will beam with pride. If you see them coming down the mountain in a hurry, "try to keep up". Don't overlook the old women you meet, they are usually the biggest experts of all, even if they are not credited as such by the local men....

A second key tip is to pay attention, all the time. Your guide could drop down a cliff face. If he does, do you know where the nearest shelter is, did it look like it might have food or tools in it or a telephone? If you passed a stream, do you remember where it was? This is easier said than done with the tiredness that comes from altitude and cold.

And finally, remember the law of threes. Lack of warmth or shelter will kill you before lack of water or food. So, carry slightly too many layers of clothing, a bit too much fuel and a bit too robust a tent. A collapsible shovel is your best friend.

And finally, revel in your time there. Though it may not always seem so, the mountains are always pleased to see new faces, who show them some respect