More titanium

[tombear]

Yes, I'm hoping the design is more effecient (faster boiling, mainly) than the Trangia one. Has the Trangia burner changed at all since 1925?

The only disadvantage (except the cost of course) on the new one I can see so far is it can't be carried pre filled, which isn't a biggy for me.

ATB

Tom

 

[Stew]

I thought Ti was rubbish for alcohol stoves?

 

[FGYT]

found that on burn n boil tests i did a while back that my pop can stoves out performed the trangia by quite a bit in time and effeicency etc as well as being very light and smaller .

ATB

Duncan

 

[MrEd]

I thought Ti was rubbish for alcohol stoves?

that what i swear i have read, something to do with heat conductivity or something to do with thermal properties anyway, will be interested to see how this performs. personally i dont reckon there is going to be much in it, bar the weight saving.

whats the weight difference between the ti one and the trangia one (empty)

You are Douglas Bader and I claim my tenner!!

EDIT; I just saw your later post, no offence. I have a pal called chrome dome courtesy of the NHS.

no offence taken i find it funny im a bit engineered lol

 

[Paul_B]

I think the efficiency of the can stoves is down to the thin walls not needing much heating to get the meths to vapourise properly. There is less material to heat up. Might be wrong. However the location, size and number of jets can make a bit of a difference too. Plus windshield design and accurate measurement of meths play a part. I think anyway. I just pour and burn personally. I seem to be quite lucky with my whitebox stove in that I pour the boiled water and look back to see the last of the meths bubbling and boiling away. I guess I have the right feel for it. Not bad since it is so new.

Has anyone come up with their own meths burner design?

 

[MrEd]

Has anyone come up with their own meths burner design?

drunk at uni i once put a meths bottle full up on a bbq with mates to see what would happen. we did it in a massive car park and expected whoosh! but the bottom just melted and it put the bbq out. not recommended and i certainly wouldnt try that now, i dont know what i was thinking back then lol

 

[FGYT]

I think the efficiency of the can stoves is down to the thin walls not needing much heating to get the meths to vapourise properly. There is less material to heat up. Might be wrong. However the location, size and number of jets can make a bit of a difference too. Plus windshield design and accurate measurement of meths play a part. I think anyway. I just pour and burn personally. I seem to be quite lucky with my whitebox stove in that I pour the boiled water and look back to see the last of the meths bubbling and boiling away. I guess I have the right feel for it. Not bad since it is so new.

Has anyone come up with their own meths burner design?

your right on heat up

i made mine origianlly to go in a crusader mug cooker as the coke can fits the tray in it perfectly But found the massive mass of metal the cooker is made of killed it dead it was more effective to just puur the same meths in the pan as a puddle and light

in the end i had it sat on the top of an food tin and a bent wire cup support testing with no wind shield etc was cold but not windy in the back yard showed mine was better than the trangia i even set teh hole jets in an oval to match the bottom of the mug shape

it was fairly low capacity i used a SMA baby powder measuring spoon apporx 10ml each 3 x for a brew boil etc and industial Meths no purple Dye
was fun to do but i never carry meths its either wood or Gas for me really ive got lots of Hexi to but again avoid it if i can theres a thread on it some hwere in here back in the mists of time

also had a play making wood gas stoves again fun to do but not the answer for me

ATB

Duncan

 

[tombear]

Published empty weights are 110 g for Trangia and 34 g for the Evernew.

ATB

Tom

 

[rik_uk3]

I thought Ti was rubbish for alcohol stoves?

Your right, brass is best, although the thin walls of pop can stoves help heat them up; that said a brass burner will outlast a pop can stove. The only thing Ti has in its favour really is its lightweight. Also just about the worst metal known to use for cooking pots.

 

[Stew]

Your right, brass is best, although the thin walls of pop can stoves help heat them up; that said a brass burner will outlast a pop can stove. The only thing Ti has in its favour really is its lightweight. Also just about the worst metal known to use for cooking pots.

Can you remind me why Ti doesn't work well. Am I right in thinking it's to do with it's conduction properties?

 

[Bravo4]

Thermal conductivity of titanium is fairly low.
Here's a chart of conductivity for various metals:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-metals-d_858.html

This is an interesting article that relates cookware materials to thermal conductivity. Titanium is not one of the metals tested but figure it rates below stainless steel.
http://www.cookingforengineers.com/article/120/Common-Materials-of-Cookware

 

[tombear]

I've been using titanium pans for about 10 years now and haven't noticed anything bad about them (apart from the price of course :-C ) so what am I missing? Am I using more fuel than with other materials (unless it was drastic I wouldn't notice)? Just curious, like.

I have them because I like carrying as little as possible (although losing 4 stone would be the best way of reducing the load!) rather than anything else.

ATB

Tom

 

[Bravo4]

Hi Tom
Nothing beats a cast iron skillet but I'm not going to carry it very far. Same goes for a heavy piece of brass. Titanium kettle and spoon have been my lightweight setup for some years now as well. Corrosion resistant, durable, it's good stuff for sure.

I can not attest to the attributes of ti stoves, that'll be something for you to do shortly . I did some boil tests today with my various small pots and cups....eh, boring data I suppose. Yes, you will burn more fuel. I would say between 5% and 20% more (estimate accurate to within +/- 10% )

Basically, if you have to carry all of your fuel for an extended outing it's worth looking into. Polar exploration, high-altitude mountaineering, camping on the moon; that sort of thing, you know who you are .

I used to be more of a gram weenie, don't travel like that as much these days. So, I also weighed my spoons today (easier data to post ) :
MSR Ti spoon = 16g
Sea to Summit 7075 T6 Alloy, hard anodized Al spoon = 9.5g
Bravo4 wooden spoon = 6g

From what I understand, hard anodized aluminium negates leaching concerns and so Al cookware and utensils again becomes an option for me.

I'm not Ti-bashing, just don't want folks who are getting started (lurking) to think it is by any means must have or in all instances preferable. It is kind of sexy though, as far as metals go.

 

[tombear]

Cheers!

I can live with the extra fuel usage as I only use meths for day or overnighters on my own.

For longer periods out I tend to be operating from a fixed base or am sharing the load so use a old pattern Optimus Nova with hard Aly' Primus pans. I've been thinking of getting one of those pans with all the baffles/heat exchanger on the bottom but never quite get around to it.

I just love how light and strong titanium is. I just wish it wasn't so over priced over here!

Mind you saying all this my absolute favourite pan is a 15" diamer spun steel Aussie bush oven


http://www.southern-metal-spinners.com.au/camping-page.html

but the wife hasn't got around to getting the pack horse to carry it yet! ;-{D) (though she is collecting to gether the bits of a pack saddle...

ATB

Tom

 

[tombear]

Went birthday shopping with the youngest into Manchester today and was hoping to find one of these in 2.9 lt

http://www.primus.eu/Templates/Pages/Product.aspx?ItemId=87695

but they only had the 2.1 version. I'll have to as herself to order me one. The set I have should nest nicely inside

http://www.primus.eu/Templates/Pages/Product.aspx?ItemId=87695,
although mine don't have the wire fold up lid handle

ATB

Tom

PS
Well, she doesn't mess around, I slope to bed at 2 and find a note that shes ordered me one. It should do nicely for the five of us until the lads grow as big as me! Thats what 5.1 UK pints or about 3 US quarts?

 

[rik_uk3]

Went birthday shopping with the youngest into Manchester today and was hoping to find one of these in 2.9 lt

http://www.primus.eu/Templates/Pages/Product.aspx?ItemId=87695

but they only had the 2.1 version. I'll have to as herself to order me one. The set I have should nest nicely inside

http://www.primus.eu/Templates/Pages/Product.aspx?ItemId=87695,
although mine don't have the wire fold up lid handle

ATB

Tom

PS
Well, she doesn't mess around, I slope to bed at 2 and find a note that shes ordered me one. It should do nicely for the five of us until the lads grow as big as me! Thats what 5.1 UK pints or about 3 US quarts?

Tom I posted a link a few weeks ago regarding the 2.9 litre pot they were on sale for £17.50 If you've not used them before you are in for a surprise, they work so well, a fantastic pot

In mine I pack a Nova, ladle, fish slice and brew kit with ease

Back to Titanium, yep, its very very poor at conducting heat, Aluminium is at the top end, stainless steel is worse but not bad and Ti is well at the bottom. Design will play a part of course, iron is a poor conductor but the thickness of iron pots helps overcome this shortcoming.

 

[tombear]

Uw, only £17.50? Thats painful! Never mind, the money came from selling something that cost me next to nothing so I can console myself that I didn't actually earn the money I wasted.

Still, it will teach me not to read all the posts or "search".

ATB

Tom

 

[helixpteron]

And eBay!

Just added these.

Titanium, Peli Cases and eBay will lead me into destitution!

 

[Carbuncle]

Thermal conductivity of titanium is fairly low.

...

This is an interesting article that relates cookware materials to thermal conductivity. Titanium is not one of the metals tested but figure it rates below stainless steel.
http://www.cookingforengineers.com/article/120/Common-Materials-of-Cookware

But that quote also says:
"In most cooking applications, it is desirable to have the utensil heat up quickly, not develop hot spots, and react to changes we make to the range controls"

Now, for those of us who are mainly boiling water, whether to make a brew, boil a rat pack meal, or rehydrate something, that's not necessarily true. Which isn't all of us, admittedly, but it explains why some people are saying titanium is the cooking metal of beelzebub, and others (me included) are scratching their heads saying "it works fine for me!". Reading that article, I'd think twice about frying sausages in a ti pan, but not making a brew, which probably explains why you tend to see ti pots in a tall, narrow format.

 

[rik_uk3]

But that quote also says:
"In most cooking applications, it is desirable to have the utensil heat up quickly, not develop hot spots, and react to changes we make to the range controls"

Now, for those of us who are mainly boiling water, whether to make a brew, boil a rat pack meal, or rehydrate something, that's not necessarily true. Which isn't all of us, admittedly, but it explains why some people are saying titanium is the cooking metal of beelzebub, and others (me included) are scratching their heads saying "it works fine for me!". Reading that article, I'd think twice about frying sausages in a ti pan, but not making a brew, which probably explains why you tend to see ti pots in a tall, narrow format.

That sums it up well That said, a wider pot absorbs heat better