Modern car technology

[Pattree]

Do you hear the tone of its voice change when you’ve slipped up?

A sort of resigned “At the next roundabout take the fourth exit (sigh).”

Yes I hope that updates keep on being available. Mine takes a very long time attached to my wife’s laptop. When I check “What’s New” I am informed that there is a new traffic light system in Dubai

 

[Kadushu]

I bought a new truck last December and it has all the gadgets mentioned in the OP. The lane keeping is borderline dangerous, the speed limit detector is okay, the collision detection is flawed but generally okay. You're constantly bombarded with beeps and warning lights. It's a lot of superfluous twaddle that overcomplicates the driving experience. The quandary for me is whether to get a remap and have the vehicle I want but potentially void the warranty or stick it out for another 4 years.

 

[Broch]

I bought a new truck last December and it has all the gadgets mentioned in the OP. The lane keeping is borderline dangerous, the speed limit detector is okay, the collision detection is flawed but generally okay. You're constantly bombarded with beeps and warning lights. It's a lot of superfluous twaddle that overcomplicates the driving experience. The quandary for me is whether to get a remap and have the vehicle I want but potentially void the warranty or stick it out for another 4 years.

Your problem may be that if you get everything turned off by a third party it will invalidate your insurance - 'you turned safety features off therefor you're not covered' type thing

 

[Kadushu]

Your problem may be that if you get everything turned off by a third party it will invalidate your insurance - 'you turned safety features off therefor you're not covered' type thing

All bar the collision detection can be turned off but it's nested in the menus and resets once the ignition is off. The other issues are the adblue and DPF which are a common cause of problems and a lot of people get them removed. That doesn't seem to have legal ramifications for now but I can imagine it becoming another check at MOT time.

It all reminds me of buying a laptop loaded with bloatware and having to uninstall the bits you don't want before you can have a normally functioning computer.

 

[HorseGuy]

I can't stand modern cars. They are far too bossy.

We all own cars from the mid 2000's here and refuse to buy anything made later than that due to all the stupid tech which makes them worse. Next time I upgrade and buy a new car I'm more likely to buy a 'classic' from the 90's or early 2000's than something new.

My other half is considering going back even further than that and buying a mint condition 2.8 litre Capri to use has her daily.

 

[Broch]

OK, now I'm cheesed off. This whole electric car thing is a con!

My car is only a mild hybrid - so 15kWh battery that will give me about 36 or 38 miles per charge. This is great as it's enough to get us around all our local mileage on 'green energy'.

However, it's not all as great as it's made out. I currently pay about about 24p per kWh so to fully charge costs me in the region of £3.60. Around here that would buy me about 2.8L (0.6 gallons). So, at 38 miles/gallon on petrol would cost me about £6 - so a saving of £2.40 (40%) running on electricity. Now that's good but could be a lot better. An off peak electricity rate is nearer 7 or 8p/kWh - but I can't get it because the smart meter role out has stalled and 40% of UK households can't get it.

How are people charging their cars at home?

 

[Chris]

OK, now I'm cheesed off. This whole electric car thing is a con!

My car is only a mild hybrid - so 15kWh battery that will give me about 36 or 38 miles per charge. This is great as it's enough to get us around all our local mileage on 'green energy'.

However, it's not all as great as it's made out. I currently pay about about 24p per kWh so to fully charge costs me in the region of £3.60. Around here that would buy me about 2.8L (0.6 gallons). So, at 38 miles/gallon on petrol would cost me about £6 - so a saving of £2.40 (40%) running on electricity. Now that's good but could be a lot better. An off peak electricity rate is nearer 7 or 8p/kWh - but I can't get it because the smart meter role out has stalled and 40% of UK households can't get it.

How are people charging their cars at home?

It really only makes sense with one of the off-peak/EV tariffs. I pay about £5.40 for a full charge, which gets me approx 300 miles in summer or 240 in winter. I had a home charger installed which cost about £900, so that has to be factored into the cost as well - though at those prices it doesn't take that long at all to recoup that initial cost.

Perhaps for you a solar panel and battery setup might be the best shot if you're unable to get an EV tariff? Although a battery of sufficient size will probably cost a fortune. I wonder how much your MPG is impacted by having the 15kWh battery on board.

I don't think EVs are really that worth it unless you live in a city/have cheap charging.

 

[Broch]

Perhaps for you a solar panel and battery setup might be the best shot if you're unable to get an EV tariff? Although a battery of sufficient size will probably cost a fortune. I wonder how much your MPG is impacted by having the 15kWh battery on board.

I don't think EVs are really that worth it unless you live in a city/have cheap charging.

I think you're right. I hadn't realized how badly distributed smart meter technology was - having said that, the majority of our usage is local so we are still saving (theoretically) and most of our car usage is therefor on renewable energy (whatever one thinks of that).

I am looking into fitting an off grid solar system (perhaps with minor wind top up). I already have an 8.5kW inverter/charger from a past project but it will be the batteries that will be a high cost. I think I can get around 10 or 12 kWh set for something like £1,300. But, after that cost the power will be free

Sorry guys & gals - drifting way off topic as usual

 

[Pupers]

OK, now I'm cheesed off. This whole electric car thing is a con!

My car is only a mild hybrid - so 15kWh battery that will give me about 36 or 38 miles per charge. This is great as it's enough to get us around all our local mileage on 'green energy'.

However, it's not all as great as it's made out. I currently pay about about 24p per kWh so to fully charge costs me in the region of £3.60. Around here that would buy me about 2.8L (0.6 gallons). So, at 38 miles/gallon on petrol would cost me about £6 - so a saving of £2.40 (40%) running on electricity. Now that's good but could be a lot better. An off peak electricity rate is nearer 7 or 8p/kWh - but I can't get it because the smart meter role out has stalled and 40% of UK households can't get it.

How are people charging their cars at home?

Not sure your car is a Mild Hybrid Brock, sounds to me like you have a PHEV. Our EV/off peak rate is 7.9p kWh, a charge, according to my app, costs around 85p and I get around 35 miles in the summer.

 

[Broch]

Ah, yes, you are right - as it will run on electric alone it's classified as PHEV; I was using the term a little lazily.

Our problem is that there is no signal out here for the smart meter comms (daft that they can't piggyback on our fibre broadband ). Ofgem’s Supply Licence Condition 22G says suppliers must take reasonable steps to offer a comparable tariff to customers who request multi-rate pricing, but I don’t think they are legally required to.

Who supplies your electricity if you don't mind sharing?

 

[MrEd]

I'm not a Luddite but as I don't drive much I don't find modern car features very useful and often a hindrance. Things such as auto-headlights which means when starting a frosty car early morning the lights come on main beam draining the battery before you even start the car. I don't even need air-con and annoyingly the air-con pump in my car failed and has had to be replaced which would have been very costly if not covered by the warranty.

During the fix I had the 'pleasure' to drive a courtesy car with all the latest gadgets on it. Whilst I can see their use for some people I found the systems somewhat poor and not fit for purpose. One feature is the lane assist/warning. I didn't know the car had that until I noticed the steering moving on it's own. It seems to want to keep the car in the middle of the lane but is not intelligent enough to know you might want to steer away from potholes on the left or away from a large vehicle on the right. At one point I steered over to the right as a car was creeping out of a left turning and all of a sudden the steering yanked me towards the other car! It also started to flash up warning messages even though I was comfortably in my lane, and to top it off it often stopped working as I assume in needs a certain type of road marking.

The car also had speed detectors which told you the speed on the dash. Again I can see the use but they didn't work that well. Frequently the speed on the dash only changed after you had entered the new zone (not much use as speed cameras are often just in side a change) but they could also change quite a way in advance if the camera picked up the sign early. At one point all sorts of warning messages flashed up as it thought I was speeding in a 30, when in fact I was in a 60. It also seemed to miss one set of signs although I didn't drive it enough to see how it coped long term.

All these gadgets add to the cost, the car was only a super mini and seems to cost almost £30k new, and for that you don't even get a hand brake!

Does anyone else find these features work and are worth having? I do worry about the cost if anything goes wrong.

Wasn’t a Toyota was it? I have a 2023 lease Corolla and I hate it as the ‘driver aids’ interfere to much in almost every situation and there is no straightforward way to switch that off.

Mine does that one thing which is beyond annoying.

My other huge bug bears are:
- auto braking when it detects an object, for example I am reversing into a space and it slams the brakes on to stop me about 2 foot from whatever the obstruction is - in a multi storey I use frequently that’s the wall at the back of the space and I want to be an inch off it so the front of my long estate doesn’t poke out into the walk way.

Other thing is it physically won’t let you drive forward if you don’t have your seatbelt on and have opened and shut your door. For example I am jumping g between 2 cars as I am shuffling them on the drive

I have auto full beam off as it goes on and off to much for my liking - particularly usually at dusk when it seems to turn itself off when it catches its own reflection from a sign for instance.

I can’t stand it, and apart from my commute actively avoid driving it.

 

[HorseGuy]

Wasn’t a Toyota was it? I have a 2023 lease Corolla and I hate it as the ‘driver aids’ interfere to much in almost every situation and there is no straightforward way to switch that off.

Mine does that one thing which is beyond annoying.

My other huge bug bears are:
- auto braking when it detects an object, for example I am reversing into a space and it slams the brakes on to stop me about 2 foot from whatever the obstruction is - in a multi storey I use frequently that’s the wall at the back of the space and I want to be an inch off it so the front of my long estate doesn’t poke out into the walk way.

Other thing is it physically won’t let you drive forward if you don’t have your seatbelt on and have opened and shut your door. For example I am jumping g between 2 cars as I am shuffling them on the drive

I have auto full beam off as it goes on and off to much for my liking - particularly usually at dusk when it seems to turn itself off when it catches its own reflection from a sign for instance.

I can’t stand it, and apart from my commute actively avoid driving it.

What idiot implements the laws which force manufactures to build cars with all these safety techno-gizmos included on them?

I do wonder if the powers-who-ought-not-be do it deliberately just to try and put people off owning and driving cars altogether?

 

[Pattree]

The more manufacturer specific stuff they can pile into a vehicle, the more the owner it’s tied into the franchise garage.

I have used the same local guy, just down the road, for nearly fifty years. The fourth generation of the same family is working there now. They sort of know me.

I buy cars from them without even bothering with a test drive. I wonder how long that can happen.

 

[Pupers]

Ah, yes, you are right - as it will run on electric alone it's classified as PHEV; I was using the term a little lazily.

Our problem is that there is no signal out here for the smart meter comms (daft that they can't piggyback on our fibre broadband ). Ofgem’s Supply Licence Condition 22G says suppliers must take reasonable steps to offer a comparable tariff to customers who request multi-rate pricing, but I don’t think they are legally required to.

Who supplies your electricity if you don't mind sharing?

Don’t mind you asking at all Brock, we are currently with BG, not hugely impressed with them or their service, but having done the “compare” thing, they don’t come out to bad. A PHEV may not be for everyone, but it suits us just fine, I did a 54 miles round trip yesterday, averaged 136mpg, 85p to charge. Why can’t they use your Broadband for a Smart Meter?

 

[Pupers]

What idiot implements the laws which force manufactures to build cars with all these safety techno-gizmos included on them?

I do wonder if the powers-who-ought-not-be do it deliberately just to try and put people off owning and driving cars altogether?

Oh my goodness, who wants to drive a car that is far safer, with all those “safety techno-gizmos” than 15 year old cars! Simply crazy idiots!

I have a 21 year old Pick up truck and a new car with lots of these “safety techno-gizmos” I know which one I would rather drive, and feel safer in! Especially on a recent drive from Aberdeen to Dartmoor. I am, after driving for 50 years next month, baffled why people moan about modern cars, “oh, they don’t make cars like they used to”………Thank god for that!

Next will be people saying they still drive, or prefer cars with a pedal on the left they have to keep pushing in, and a stick thing they have to wriggle around, like my truck. What is all that about!

 

[Wildgoose]

Oh my goodness, who wants to drive a car that is far safer, with all those “safety techno-gizmos” than 15 year old cars! Simply crazy idiots!

I have a 21 year old Pick up truck and a new car with lots of these “safety techno-gizmos” I know which one I would rather drive, and feel safer in! Especially on a recent drive from Aberdeen to Dartmoor. I am, after driving for 50 years next month, baffled why people moan about modern cars, “oh, they don’t make cars like they used to”………Thank god for that!

I think if you read the thread you might have some idea as to why people don’t like the “far safer cars”.

 

[Pupers]

I think if you read the thread you might have some idea as to why people don’t like the “far safer cars”.

Nearly always “user error”. It is, without any doubt, a fact that cars are far, far safer now as technology has improved. Let’s us not forget the main cause of vehicle “accidents”

Very quick example, I live in rural Devon, narrow lanes so regularly have to reverse back for someone, especially this time of the year, a townie in narrow lanes, oh my goodness! Anyway, about three months ago, in my truck, I reversed into a car I simply could not see I’m my mirrors, it was that close to me, my fault, simple as that! If my truck had the same tech as modern ones, I would have had know a car was behind me, and not backed into it. Give me modern cars anyday.

 

[slowworm]

Nearly always “user error”.

Have you read the thread? I started it because I found some of the features dangerous. Having the car steer into another vehicle it had not seen or for it to steer into a deep pothole isn't improving safety. There are also proven instances of problems with the programming such as emergency braking without reason on motorways. As someone who did a lot of programming and bug fixing in a previous life this is going to be an issue for some time. This isn't "user error".

The question should be are they safer than the driver, the one I drove I would say it wasn't. When things improve they likely will be. Yes, there are plenty of useful features but I'd also like either more intelligence with them or the ability to easily override them. E.g. The auto main beam lights when starting a frosty car on my driveway at home - I don't need the lights on until I move off and I don't recall ever forgetting to turn them on. (Actually I may be more likely to forget to turn them on in another car now as you get used to auto lights).

 

[HorseGuy]

Oh my goodness, who wants to drive a car that is far safer, with all those “safety techno-gizmos” than 15 year old cars! Simply crazy idiots!

I have a 21 year old Pick up truck and a new car with lots of these “safety techno-gizmos” I know which one I would rather drive, and feel safer in! Especially on a recent drive from Aberdeen to Dartmoor. I am, after driving for 50 years next month, baffled why people moan about modern cars, “oh, they don’t make cars like they used to”………Thank god for that!

Next will be people saying they still drive, or prefer cars with a pedal on the left they have to keep pushing in, and a stick thing they have to wriggle around, like my truck. What is all that about!

I’ve never crashed a car even once. I don’t need a car with safety techno-gizmos. In fact I’ve been driving for the best part of four decades and I’m actually getting quite good at not crashing with all that practice of not driving into things.

New cars with safety techno-gizmos annoy me. I either have to press a load of buttons or go through multiple screen menus to turn them off every time I start the car or if I forget to do it the car makes annoying beeping noises at me or does something unwanted like swerving the wheel or hitting the brakes when I don’t want it to.

In fact in some ways they are more dangerous because I have to keep taking my eyes off the road to look at a screen if I want to adjust the heater or music volume on the radio. I’ve also seen people forget to turn off the safety gizmos when they start the car then remember later while they are driving and do it then and take their attention off the road as they do it.
Many new cars are also too physically big and heavy to fit down the narrow country lanes around where I live. Car tech peaked sometime around the early to mid 2000’s in my opinion. They could be even better now with modern technology but due to legislation it is poorly implemented and ends up making them worse.

Regarding the clutch pedal. Personally I rather enjoy manual gearbox interactions when I’m in the mood for it, although I do agree that most of the time it does feel like extra unnecessary inconvenience that I would rather do without. Modern reversing cameras are nice to have too. Maybe I should buy a small 1990's sports car and having a minor restso-mod job done on it to get the best mix of old and new tech.

These are my personal opinions. If you like modern cars then that is fine too. We are all different and have our own individual preferences.

 

[Falstaff]

The black box of which you speak is already fitted on all newish cars. Currently the police can only access it either with your permission or if related to a crime/suspicion of. E.g. the crossbow killing a while back - police were even able to show when the boot was opened to take it out and where the vehicle was at the time (late at night within crossbow range of the guys house, and his earlier recce trial).

The car industry and govt. are hellbent on introducing autonomous cars asap, despite all the faults described. The final general public "Consultation" on introduction of autonomous cars/vehicles has just closed. The draft legislation is probably nearing final stages now. I think it will be tabled whenever the political climate is judge right, but will be asap.