Medical evidence for ‘Birch Polypore’

[Robson Valley]

I have no faith in the rows of "herbal medicines" in store shelves.
Paleo wisdom hasn't been lost here as in so many places.
That wisdom includes contra indications and I am very well aware of those which need my care and attention.

 

[Janne]

That first link is interrsting!

 

[Janne]

My point is that we choose what to believe in.
Most Ancient, Folk, Paleo, medicine we would never touch. Most herbs are harmless, and if toxic, considering the low dose not fatal.

Not much research has been done for cross interactions.

Grapefruit and StJohns Worth are an excepion?

 

[Sundowner]

Bound to be other articles like that though. Problem for us is that they won't be written in English, but most likely in German, Russian, Czech, or one of the Scandinavian ones.
The Scandinavians often publish in English too, but the rest often use German as their alternate language.
Germany has a pharmacopeia of herbal drugs that are widely researched and used. They don't have quite the same hangups about it that we have. Even the EU hasn't managed to stifle that.

M

I remember reading a German publication about this which a friend had sent me. Unfortunately I must have deleted the email, but it was in German anyway

 

[Sundowner]

My point is that we choose what to believe in.
Most Ancient, Folk, Paleo, medicine we would never touch. Most herbs are harmless, and if toxic, considering the low dose not fatal.

Not much research has been done for cross interactions.

Grapefruit and StJohns Worth are an excepion?

I'm unable to get my hands on research on chaga made by the Russians in the 50's. But I'm sure that would be interesting to read as, apparently, it is specifically about cancer.

 

[Darryl of Sussex]

Seems to me that if it has any of the claimed properties and all of this is true, that it should be listed as either a controlled substance or licensed as a medicine and that people should not be making tea from it. It would be very easy to test such claims in controlled clinical trials.

I’m highly suspicious of anything that has claims that it can cure several different major diseases eg HIV, Tumours, Cancers as well as aid general well being by making tea with it but as nobody is ODing on it, I might try some mushroomy tea one of these days.

 

[Janne]

You can be very certain that anything that claims to cure several diseases is a' snake oil'.

Of course, you can get multiple symptoms from lack of a mineral, vitamin etc, and increasing the intake of this will cure all symptoms.

Vitamin C is one of them. Lack gives you a multitude of illnesses/problems, even death.
Death will not be affected unfortunately, last time it happened was something like 2000 years ago?

Herbal meds can help greatly with light problems, no doubt about that.

I suffer a lot from chesty coughs/slight inflammations, since I frost damaged my lungs when young. The best medication I found were not those over OTC bottles and 'suckies', but a strong tea made from Linden flower, Mint leaves and (raw) honey.

 

[Darryl of Sussex]

You can be very certain that anything that claims to cure several diseases is a' snake oil'.

Of course, you can get multiple symptoms from lack of a mineral, vitamin etc, and increasing the intake of this will cure all symptoms.

Vitamin C is one of them. Lack gives you a multitude of illnesses/problems, even death.
Death will not be affected unfortunately, last time it happened was something like 2000 years ago?

Herbal meds can help greatly with light problems, no doubt about that.

I suffer a lot from chesty coughs/slight inflammations, since I frost damaged my lungs when young. The best medication I found were not those over OTC bottles and 'suckies', but a strong tea made from Linden flower, Mint leaves and (raw) honey.

Thing is, it’s very easy to make a claim and argue through emotive anecdotes but very difficult to disprove it.

There’s a growing ideology of pseudoscience and anti-vax/pharma/etc because it’s so easy for anyone to upload a video proclaiming the powerful healing energies of ‘x’, while boshing out loads of sciencey-sounding terms.... as well as there being dodgy research being conducted in favour of funder’s claims...
so reading about such things (unless they’re obviously meant for gullible minds) can help to either bring new insights or confirm suspicions. The trick is telling one from the other.

That reminds me. I must change the batteries in my dream catcher, as I dreamt my arm was stuck in a pipe and we all know what that means.


If there’s a bustle in your hedgerow, don’t be alarmed now, it’s just a sprinkling for the May Queen.

 

[Janne]

Today, it is virtually impossible to distinguish between Science and Pseudo Science.
There is a multitude of commercial scientific publications out there, all want to make money by having a large reading base. They publish 'research' that is hugely flawed and in many cases false/not done.

This kind of research sometimes makes its way into legit scientific publications.

I have a few tricks to try to see the quality of the researchers.

 

[Robson Valley]

Some of the most honest research has to be the testing done by Big Pharma.
They have an absolute "need to know" what works and what doesn't = that's how they make a profit.
I know that clearly as I have a direct connection into the business. Anyone else?
I've read about the commercial "journals." About as original as a newsstand magazine.

At the same time, you can bypass the bull-tweet by talking to the Medicine Woman on the Rez.
She's got 15,000 years of research behind her. Of course she knows what's toxic and what isn't.
Some of her stuff is pretty good BUT it isn't available in commercial quantities.
Harvesting would mean local extinction here in a couple of years and that's the end of the game, of course.

I'd like some things but they "might" be toxic over a long time so she said not to use them.

 

[Woody girl]

Well as the saying goes.... everything in moderation. Take digitalis. Fatal in the wrong dose a lifesaver at the correct dose. Nature has a remedy for everything if we did but know which what when and how.

 

[Janne]

Not for problems like Periodontitis and Caries, Leukemia, autoimmune diseases and Cancers unfortunately.

If I may go back to the OP’s question - some funky ‘research’ was done in the Commie Bloc.
They did not have a high quality chemical/ pharmacological industry ( they had the theoretical knowhow though) so they presented ‘scientific ‘ research of the effectivness of many natural remedies. Chaga is a prime example.
It was standard procedure in the hospitals to collect the urine of patients that were treated with the basic Antibiotics, to extract the extreted AB.

Much so called scientific research was done in East Germany, today re- labelled as Germany. They had the worst chem industry of those countries.


I hope you people understand that every time you see your GP or dentist, every single step or part of the treatment is a result of a long and severely controlled research.
Every step in the diagnostic process, check of BP, every moment of the examination.

Decades and decades of research, most if it done on humans in the past, on other irgsnisms now.
No crystals, no ancient knowledge, no BS.

That filling you had done at the last checkup is the result of 200 years of material research. It will not destroy your sperm count, give you man boobs, breast cancer or itchy earlobes.
No, the rootfilling will not kill you, give you the hives, HIV or make you sensitive to radiation.

 

[Darryl of Sussex]

My general starting point when looking into anything like this, is generally The Cochrane Collaboration, then the NHS.

 

[Toddy]

You seem utterly determined to denigrate herbal research Janne, and specifically from Russia and Germany, yet the Eastern Block countries have very good research indeed, and they do do peer review with scientists elsewhere in Europe.
Yet you boast about Dentistry materials.....how about the mercury fillings that many here still have, because it's more toxic to remove them than to leave them alone? . Now teeth bleaching is in fashion, yet that bleaching can and does cause bleedind and gum shrinkage....ah but it gives really white teeth.....it could easily be claimed that dentistry and it's history are full of quacks.
They used to take the teeth from the fallen in the battlefield to make false teeth, thankfully we've moved along from that, but from colloidal silver (and I do mind the blue ladies who lived nearby) to the incredible swelling caused by allergic reaction to the chemicals, and damaged nerves, it's anything but innocent of inadvertent harm.
That said, I am grateful for the advances in modern dentistry, but think that prevention of the necessity ought to be given more research....ah, but that won't generate profits for bigpharma, will it ?

It's not all sunshine and roses on one side, and withered stems and gloom and doom on the other.

The reallity is that herbal research is every bit as valid as that of the potions of the pharmacist......and I hold my hands up and confess....I have less trouble with the herbal potions than I do with the purified drugs on prescription.
That's my only caveat in this. I am the original canary in the coalmine. If there's something in a drug or food that will cause an allergic reaction, I'm one of the ones who'll show it very quickly. From blistering rashes to stomach ulcers, from wheals to oedema, from anaemia to covered in bruises, I react badly to supposedly well researched and carefully dosed drugs.

The thing is you see, that we're all different, and that the potions of the pharmacist are averaged to suit the mythical average demographics.
It's all very well to say that the average age of fifty people in a room is 45, but the reality is that there are ten below twenty and ten over sixty, and no one's actually 45, iimmc.

But it's so easy to pop a pill out of those ever so hygienic blister packs, isn't it ? You don't have to think about what you're doing, what you're ingesting, where it came from, etc.,
Herbal medicines across the counter with overblown claims of efficacy make me very wary. They are no universal panacea, but then neither are pills.
I think both have their strengths, but I won't take either without thinking carefully about it.

However, back to piptoporus betullina, (can't mind it's new moniker yet, I'll get there).....I know of it as an excellent plaster for wounds. It seals well, gently, and effectively, yet allows the wound to breathe. I have never had a festering cut underneath, and of those I know who use them, none of them have ever had it fester either. We all healed well and even deep cuts are virtually scar free.
So, apocryfyl evidence backed up by personal experience.
As a tea, I didn't find it much of anything, but a little piece of the fungus chewed and later spat out, not swallowed, helped ease a sore throat on more than one occasion. So, kind of topical in application ? and for me and my friends at least, no blistering rash (zinc oxide plasters) or oedema from plastic plasters, or heartburn from cough syrup and the lingering horribleness of artificial sweeteners.

M

 

[Janne]

The only toothwhitening that does damage ( a chemical burn) is the chairside 35% + concentration, if the soft tissues are not shielded properly.

Amalgam? Totally harmless to remove.
Who said it was more harmful to remove?

You are wrong in assuming I am against Herbal stuff. It has a place and use, but people should not think it is better or more efficient.
As I have written several times, most modern medication originate from plants, moulds and such.

Pharma companies isolate the active ingredient, do the neccessary research for effectivness, dosage, toxicity, best way to administer it.

In our family, going back as far as I know to my great grandparents, we have always started using herbal, and if no effect or if problem gets worse gone over to pharma produced meds.
Seems to have worked. Nobody died from stuff that could have been cured, but always frim uncurable diseases.
Three did die from ‘lead poisoning’ as we jokingly say, one on WW1 and two in WW2.

 

[Janne]

Rash, blisters and edema from plasters?
Yep, I suffer from that too. I did find, by trial and error, that some brands, or some versions within brands does this to my skin.
I have not been able to pinpoint which agent it is, but as I am allergic to Latex I suspect that the sticky medium on some can contain it or a derivative.
None has declared having Latex as an ingredient.

It may seem like a trivial problem, but for us that like to spend time outside civilisation, ot can be truly nasty.
A small cut that needs protecting can turn to a much larger, seeping wound, that can get infected really easily. Happened to me.
A blister on a heel ( one) can get a group of brothers and sisters where the plaster sat. Which make walking very, very uncomfortable and the whole situation potentially life threatening. Yep, happened to me, took me a couple of painful days hobbling out to the nearest habited place.

Once I came home, dad had to give me IV antibiotics as I had developed sepsis.
The silver lining is that I met my wife because of that!

 

[Toddy]

The only toothwhitening that does damage ( a chemical burn) is the chairside 35% + concentration, if the soft tissues are not shielded properly.

Amalgam? Totally harmless to remove.
Who said it was more harmful to remove?

You are wrong in assuming I am against Herbal stuff. It has a place and use, but people should not think it is better or more efficient.
As I have written several times, most modern medication originate from plants, moulds and such.

Pharma companies isolate the active ingredient, do the neccessary research for effectivness, dosage, toxicity, best way to administer it.

In our family, going back as far as I know to my grandparents, we have always started using herbal, and if no effect or if problem gets worse gone over to pharma produced meds.
Seems to have worked. Nobody died from stuff that could have been cured, but always frim uncurable diseases.

Properly made dental moulds, home use syringes of bleaching gel.....burned and bleeding, and not the only one. Reputable manufacturer supplied.

I disagree that the isolation of the 'active' ingredient is the best way, every time.
Meadowsweet flourish is only one known case in point.

I think there is very much a place for both, but I think both herbal and pharma need both forethought and care, and neither ought to be seen as a 'one size fits all'.

As for the mercury amalgam, my dentist, and the other practices around here, only remove them if the tooth needs it for other work, and they all clearly state that it's for 'their' health, since when in the tooth it appears to be stable and unreactive. The 'mist' created by it's removal is not something they're happy to breathe and they don't recommend it for their patients either unless it's truly necessary.

M

 

[Janne]

Abdolutely, place for both!
Unfortunately many people can not/want not take advice from medical professionals, seek help to late so it is really difficult to help.

The bleaching trays, the edges, are they placed very, very close to the end of the gingiva? You see, it the edge sits on the gingival edge it will ‘scratch’ or basically cut the gingiva, and the whitening agent ( 3-10% buffered Hydrogen Peroxide or similar) will chemically burn it.
Does happen. I always provide new trays if the assistant cuts them to short and the patient gets these problems.
Check and tell your doc. You paid good money so you want it to work!
Also if you have a low production of saliva, the gingiva is more sensitive. In yhis case the trays should be cut so the rdge stops around 0.5 to 1 mm from the gingival margin, on the toith itself.
The sensitivity is because the whitening agent ’super cleans’ the tooth, including the exposed dentine with its myriad of tiny canals ( dentine tubuli)
The nerve endings at the dnd if the tubuli start reacting.
Sensodyne tiith paste applied and left overnight helps a lot.

The Amalgam malarkey started in my homecountry, Sweden, just when I had qualified. To cut a long story short, we all stopped using it. About 30 years ago.
It all was based on one guy’s totally false research, assumptions, wrong conclusions.
We experienced what can be closest described as Hysteria, people started attributing all their problems, real and imagined, of the Mercury.
We all had patients like that. Some even never had one Amalgam filling placed in their mouth, but they still perceived being ill from it.....
We worked our backsides off to make patients happy and remove their fillings before new recommendations were issued.

A filling or restauration (any material) should only be removed if faulty ( broken, decay, whatever) because each time we remove a it, we need to remove a little bit of the sound tooth which weakens the it, stresses the pulp and increases the chances for necrosis of it.
Of course aesthetics are a reason too.

Yes we caregivers do inhale the Amalgan particles and have a higher Hg level in our bodies, but none of the research done the last three decades has shown any increase of any problems amongs dentists or assistants.

Patients show a slight increase for a very short period of time, so you guys do not need to worry!


I know that NHS dentists want and need to do only the minimum, the easiest and the most neccessary treatment as the fee system punishes them.
I never worked within the NHS system with adults as it is incompactible with the way the Swedish trained dentist works, I only treated children of my (private) adult patients, but have plenty of friends that do, so I know the system very well.

Sorry to be off topic on your thread, Darryl of Sussex, buy I think I gave you people some good and useful advice here.

 

[Toddy]

So another dig against the NHS from a dentist making his living on private patients.....from our point of view Janne, that's always going to be biased.

Most of us accept that dentistry on the NHS is sound but limited, and pay for other procedures as necessary...the tooth whitening for instance....and no scratching from soft moulds, just bad reactions to the bleach, and not as uncommon as one might suppose.
I was refunded for everything except the Dentist's fee since she had done the work to make the mould.

Removing mercury fillings was a definite 'thing' for a while, until the dentists realised just how much they were breathing in and decided to limit to only as necessary.
Fair enough I reckon, I know I don't want to be breathing it in either.

As for herbal materials and dentistry, oil of cloves does kill the pain of toothache and gives respite until one can get to a Dentist, sour fruits do encourage natural saliva flow in those with dry mouths, and mint it toothpaste has a long provenance.

On that note, chewing p. betullina cleaned my teeth quite tidily I don't know if I'd recommend it for daily use though but elsewhere in the world folk make daily use of certain twiggy trees for that purpose.

 

[Darryl of Sussex]

As many examples as there are of modern medicine being harmful if used incorrectly, there are quacks making nonsense claims and well meaning people repeating viral anecdotes whose origins have been lost in the fugue of BS anti-pharm/vaxx/corp rhetoric. It’s easy to point at a plant and say it was used for thousands of years for some medicinal purpose and less easy to prove it without using anecdotes.

What that then results in, is people asking themselves ‘how do I know what to believe?’ Well, I will always rely upon the latest and most trustworthy of sources. Here’s just one example of such a source and clinical review; we’ve all heard of it, ‘Echinacea’. Some people swear by it, some people think it’s quack nonsense. Cochrane finds

“Echinacea products have not here been shown to provide benefits for treating colds, although, it is possible there is a weak benefit from some Echinacea products: the results of individual prophylaxis trials consistently show positive (if non-significant) trends, although potential effects are of questionable clinical relevance.”

https://www.cochrane.org/CD000530/ARI_echinacea-for-preventing-and-treating-the-common-cold

That is good enough for me to base a decision to not buy Echinacea when I have a cold.

Not sure how long i’m going to spend looking into this but it’s an interesting thing to do, especially if it proves one way or another beyond beliefs and bias.

Best wishes,

Darryl