making kit lighter and more compact.
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The General said:
Hmmm, maybe, ...a luxury item perhaps? Nice for sure, but is it a bare essential. Take one instead of your SAS survival tin - far more useful. I'm starting to understand why your bergen isn't big enough Wayne, I'm thinking you need a 110 and a caravan.
Actually, I think the doubling up/redundancy thing is a good point. I was looking through my kit and noticed I had multiples of many things. I mean, what do you carry to backup your backup - then what do you back that up with?
I'm betting if I just dumped all my redundancy and went with one of everything, I'd shave loads off my pack weight.
The General said:
Brands/types are unimportant - A knife, A tarp, A slepping bag - whatever you choose is up to you.
Ah, but a Poncho is a raincoat that covers all your kit, pack and all as well as a tarp!
I agree though, I would take the Thermarest over the survival tin. I would nick the good bits out of that and customise the medical kit, so best of both worlds! :-D
I agree though, I would take the Thermarest over the survival tin. I would nick the good bits out of that and customise the medical kit, so best of both worlds! :-D
As an aside I would carry far more water as I simply don't know enough ebout finding water in the wilds... I could find a great campsite but not always near running water which I could treat and boil... Thus I would carry at least 6-8L of water.
EdS
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Martyn said:
You don´t need a loo roll, the woods are full of leafs and moss to use as loo paper. I have never used a millbank bag so I don´t know about that.
I'd be up for it.
so the five items
*sos mix
*pasta
*para cord
*kukri
*a nice warm girl to cuddle up to at night (she's out there somewhere)
so the five items
*sos mix
*pasta
*para cord
*kukri
*a nice warm girl to cuddle up to at night (she's out there somewhere)
The orinigal question was about lightening ones load. This isn't as hard as it at first seems and many of the answers given on this thread good a long way to showing us how - OR AT LEAST HOW NOT TOO.
Read back - look at the suggestions, can you see how each answer added to the load.
For example Billy can and Crusader cup - can you cook in a crusader cup? can you drink out of a billy?
To truely lighten ones load one has to lower ones expectations - I dont mean suffer, rough it or any such thing - i simply mean be prepared to compromise.
What is a poncho? what can it do?
What type of knife do you carry? Can it do all the tasks you require of it? If not why not?
Lightening ones load starts with lightening ones mind.
Read back - look at the suggestions, can you see how each answer added to the load.
For example Billy can and Crusader cup - can you cook in a crusader cup? can you drink out of a billy?
To truely lighten ones load one has to lower ones expectations - I dont mean suffer, rough it or any such thing - i simply mean be prepared to compromise.
What is a poncho? what can it do?
What type of knife do you carry? Can it do all the tasks you require of it? If not why not?
Lightening ones load starts with lightening ones mind.
Totally agree with Gary, what you carry is purely down to state of mind and skill level.
In an ideal world and with sufficient skill you could actually go with absolutely nothing. Stuarts a good one for this as I've seen him get his gear into 20L. The majority of space in my bag is taken up with the sleeping bag but I can easily now fit enough gear into 35L, must admit I'm glad noone took a picture of the trip I did with Ed, Dean and Stuart, had a job to walk with my pack. Normally now I pack the following:-
Sleeping Bag
Tarp
Hammock
Knife
Billhook
First Aid Kit + a few extras like syndol, anti-histamines etc.
Survival Bag
Cotton Wool Balls/Vaseline (luxury)
Ferrous Rod
Leathermans (probably a luxury but handy)
DC4 sharpening Stone
Snares
Cooking Pot or Billy
Aussie Bush Hat (personally I think this important, especially in strong sun, also handy in rain)
Tikka Plus + Spare batteries (luxury)
Thermarest (luxury)
Loo Roll/Tissues
Hand Wipes/Antiseptic Hand Wipes
Multi-Purpose Soap (washing plates and me
)
Antiseptic Foot Powder (my feet really aren't nice after a day in boots but this is probably a luxury)
Change of Underwear (luxury)
Small pair of binoculars (luxury)
Coffee Bags (luxury)
Spoon
Crook Knife (luxury)
Bannock Mix
Dried Fruit (luxury)
A few food additives (luxury)
Hip Flask with whisky/rum (essential )
Copy of Food for Free (luxury if you know your plants well... I don't )
I think thats about it, this lot easily fits into a 35L sack with room to spare, and I could cut a hell of a lot of this out, but personally I feel a lot it is well worth the extra weight. Some items I havent marked as luxuries as I don't think my skill is enough to warrent being without it yet, snares for instant can be made from cordage, spoons can be made, leather strops used to sharpen knives. I think kit weights/size is quite a personal thing, what I feel is important others wouldn't event think twice about leaving behind.
In an ideal world and with sufficient skill you could actually go with absolutely nothing. Stuarts a good one for this as I've seen him get his gear into 20L. The majority of space in my bag is taken up with the sleeping bag but I can easily now fit enough gear into 35L, must admit I'm glad noone took a picture of the trip I did with Ed, Dean and Stuart, had a job to walk with my pack. Normally now I pack the following:-
Sleeping Bag
Tarp
Hammock
Knife
Billhook
First Aid Kit + a few extras like syndol, anti-histamines etc.
Survival Bag
Cotton Wool Balls/Vaseline (luxury)
Ferrous Rod
Leathermans (probably a luxury but handy)
DC4 sharpening Stone
Snares
Cooking Pot or Billy
Aussie Bush Hat (personally I think this important, especially in strong sun, also handy in rain)
Tikka Plus + Spare batteries (luxury)
Thermarest (luxury)
Loo Roll/Tissues
Hand Wipes/Antiseptic Hand Wipes
Multi-Purpose Soap (washing plates and me
)Antiseptic Foot Powder (my feet really aren't nice after a day in boots but this is probably a luxury)
Change of Underwear (luxury)
Small pair of binoculars (luxury)
Coffee Bags (luxury)
Spoon
Crook Knife (luxury)
Bannock Mix
Dried Fruit (luxury)
A few food additives (luxury)
Hip Flask with whisky/rum (essential
)Copy of Food for Free (luxury if you know your plants well... I don't
)I think thats about it, this lot easily fits into a 35L sack with room to spare, and I could cut a hell of a lot of this out, but personally I feel a lot it is well worth the extra weight. Some items I havent marked as luxuries as I don't think my skill is enough to warrent being without it yet, snares for instant can be made from cordage, spoons can be made, leather strops used to sharpen knives. I think kit weights/size is quite a personal thing, what I feel is important others wouldn't event think twice about leaving behind.
Knowledge and the feeling that the woods is your home the less kit will you need when out there. Remember that things like sleeping bags, tarps and big rucksacks are modern things. People have lived with very little before. Try spending a night without all your kit, only bring your knife, cooking pot and some food. It´s an experience and after you will know what to bring next time.
Very true Viking.
Anybody, eqiupped with nothing at all, can survive a night in the woods if they have the ability to light a fire.
Try this and you will see just how little you really need.
Most of what a modern bushman (or women) carries would be considered as luxury items to our forebears. Today we are oftened tricked into carrying more than we need, for instance we carry a knife that is to big becuase its the one we see on the tv and yet it cannot be used for all our needs so we then carry a second smaller one. We carry a billy can, crusader cup, stove, fuel, plate and fork when something like a swedish mess set and a wooden sppon would simply do.
I often think that Carry less by knowing more should be interpreted as Carry more by LEARNING less!
R Mears once said, the students who learn the most are those who cant afford the latest, expensive gear - probably before he opened his shop, but the point is still pertinent.
Anybody, eqiupped with nothing at all, can survive a night in the woods if they have the ability to light a fire.
Try this and you will see just how little you really need.
Most of what a modern bushman (or women) carries would be considered as luxury items to our forebears. Today we are oftened tricked into carrying more than we need, for instance we carry a knife that is to big becuase its the one we see on the tv and yet it cannot be used for all our needs so we then carry a second smaller one. We carry a billy can, crusader cup, stove, fuel, plate and fork when something like a swedish mess set and a wooden sppon would simply do.
I often think that Carry less by knowing more should be interpreted as Carry more by LEARNING less!
R Mears once said, the students who learn the most are those who cant afford the latest, expensive gear - probably before he opened his shop, but the point is still pertinent.
Ed said:Where is stuart when you need him. A thread comes up about super light weight kit and he's away!!!
I have a 35l pack which keeps the amount down that I carry.... if it doesn't fit, it don't come along.
Ed
I'm in a log cabin in the woods in Finnland and it has internet so i can get BCUK!!!! and I have found a thread on light weight kit!!!!!! does life get any better :-D
in my twenty liter rocket paks I carry:
between the pack and the harness fits my water bag which carrys 3 liters (the minimum i am happy traveling with)
down sleeping bag (800 fill -13deg) 900g
Hennesy hammock ultralite A-sym
MSR titan (titanium cooking pot which has handles so it can be used as a mug I have also added a hanging loop)
spare socks and swimming trunks
warm top (a ranger shirt or if very cold a down jacket RAB 750 fill)
Premac water purifyer
full medical kit
Folding saw (this is one of mine)
toilet roll
petzel tikka plus
repair kit (super glue and speed tape)
wash kit (toothbrush, mirror, soap, mini towel,wet wipes)
Bannock mix
a couple of Savu bags and spice mix
in my ventile jacket:
titanium spoon
mozzi net
leather gloves
knife with fire steel
tinder pouch with fire steel and green heat gel sachets
Buff
20 snares and fishing kit
leatherman wave
compass
photon torch around my neck with whistle
DC4 sharpening stone
Thats all i can think of at the moment I'll go off and check my bag and see if i have forgotton anything
Wise words Gary and Viking. Stuarts amazing kit is a bit expensive for my pocket, and some items are custom made or vertually imposible to come by.
I got stranded the other week and ended up sleeping rough in the woods with no kit. Not even a coat. Only a plastic water bottle that became my pillow. It was a warm dry night and i knew i would survive.
I had most of the night to think what kit i actually needed, as i got little sleep. (I am looking more at the ultra lightweight bug out bag approach here)
I had a fleece jumper on which kept me just warm enough. (It was dark and late so i didn't build a shelter, just wanted to get my head down.)
So top of the list was a hat. If nothing else i would have liked a warm hat
Next was sleeping bag of some sort or a blanket. I reckoned a blizzard bag is perfect. Its small, lightweight and waterproof, so no need for a sleeping bag and bivvy/hoochie or poncho. ( I phoned woodland organics and they promptly got one for me !)
Some means of making fire - a cigarette lighter + backup ? some light would have been nice
Cooking and eating i reckon those Aluminium foil containers that chinese takeaway arrives in. Very light weight and with a bit of care can be folded flat and reused.
A water bottle.
include the knife in my pocket, a brew kit including a cuppa soup and you are about there. (I also had an LED light on my keyring)
It was a very useful exercise, I recommend it. The clothes you stand up in, say after a saturday shopping trip or something. Then head to the woods as you are. Suprising what it revealed.
So I think that is the bare minimum for an overnight. Work up from there, everything else is a luxury or an indulgence, so make it count.
Having said this i still travel overloaded, but have a new perspective and i am stripping my kit down.
Cheers
Rich
I got stranded the other week and ended up sleeping rough in the woods with no kit. Not even a coat. Only a plastic water bottle that became my pillow. It was a warm dry night and i knew i would survive.
I had most of the night to think what kit i actually needed, as i got little sleep. (I am looking more at the ultra lightweight bug out bag approach here)
I had a fleece jumper on which kept me just warm enough. (It was dark and late so i didn't build a shelter, just wanted to get my head down.)
So top of the list was a hat. If nothing else i would have liked a warm hat
Next was sleeping bag of some sort or a blanket. I reckoned a blizzard bag is perfect. Its small, lightweight and waterproof, so no need for a sleeping bag and bivvy/hoochie or poncho. ( I phoned woodland organics and they promptly got one for me !)
Some means of making fire - a cigarette lighter + backup ? some light would have been nice
Cooking and eating i reckon those Aluminium foil containers that chinese takeaway arrives in. Very light weight and with a bit of care can be folded flat and reused.
A water bottle.
include the knife in my pocket, a brew kit including a cuppa soup and you are about there. (I also had an LED light on my keyring)
It was a very useful exercise, I recommend it. The clothes you stand up in, say after a saturday shopping trip or something. Then head to the woods as you are. Suprising what it revealed.
So I think that is the bare minimum for an overnight. Work up from there, everything else is a luxury or an indulgence, so make it count.
Having said this i still travel overloaded, but have a new perspective and i am stripping my kit down.
Cheers
Rich
As an ex squaddie we used to cut half the handle off yer spoon, yer toothbrush, have half a tube of toothpaste, half a towel etc etc...Soon cut yer weight down. Having said that I now tend to carry an 80ltr pack with all me bushcraft toys in .
Noticed that www.allthingsmilitary.co.uk are doing a KFS set that's half size fer about £7. I've ordered one to check it out
with all me bushcraft toys in .Noticed that www.allthingsmilitary.co.uk are doing a KFS set that's half size fer about £7. I've ordered one to check it out
i have to agree with you there,
i have already cut all the relevent easy bits ie smaller amounts of toiletries.
i have some tips myself passed onto me by an ultralight camper i used to know i don't use these myself but you may find them useful:
rather than para cord use kite fliying cord, as strong but much lighter/more compact.
rather than taking a sleeping mat (which is very light!) he made a ripstop nylon envelope to stuff with leaves for insulation, so all you carry is the very light envelope!
another guy told me of a method of going into a medatative state where your body produces huge amounts of heat so extra insulation is not needed (not sure about that one! :shock: ).
a good point from roving rich, is basically don't take what you don't use!
:-?
Im still trying to loose that extra lb!
i have already cut all the relevent easy bits ie smaller amounts of toiletries.
i have some tips myself passed onto me by an ultralight camper i used to know i don't use these myself but you may find them useful:
rather than para cord use kite fliying cord, as strong but much lighter/more compact.
rather than taking a sleeping mat (which is very light!) he made a ripstop nylon envelope to stuff with leaves for insulation, so all you carry is the very light envelope!
another guy told me of a method of going into a medatative state where your body produces huge amounts of heat so extra insulation is not needed (not sure about that one! :shock: ).
a good point from roving rich, is basically don't take what you don't use!
:-?
Im still trying to loose that extra lb!
whilst i agree wholeheartedly with the comments about surviving with next to nothing. it's all luxuries compared to our ancestors yes, but we need to keep it in context. we aren't all able to drop saplings to build thermally efficient shelters every night we go camping.
but all this does remind me of one thing, ditchfield, can i have my kit back now? :shock:
cheers, and.
but all this does remind me of one thing, ditchfield, can i have my kit back now? :shock:
cheers, and.
stu, how much food can you get in your rocketpack rig?
this thread has drifted a bit.
how's about setting an arbitrary volume for the three days worth of food. 2 ltrs?
cheers, and.
this thread has drifted a bit.
how's about setting an arbitrary volume for the three days worth of food. 2 ltrs?
cheers, and.
You have all seen my pic from the dartmoor meet. i am not the trimest amongst you. Short and fat so why do i spend a fortune on titanium mugs and pots etc to save a few grams.
My pack varies from 65l to 25l depending on the nature of the trip.
i generally have more fun on the more minimalist trips.
My pack varies from 65l to 25l depending on the nature of the trip.
i generally have more fun on the more minimalist trips.
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