Make a shed from wood in woodland or buy cheap wooden one?

[bushcraftlearner83729]

I vacillate between the two ideas.

There are some tall trees, from 30-50ft but still have not been able to identify them by looking up their characteristics online. Although there are not many trees in the small woodland area I think those are so tall it would not decimate it to take enough to build a small shed. Besides many have fallen of their own accord anyway, but of course rotted so no good for using for this, and I also plan to replant.

They have mottled bark (so NOT oak, which I know what it looks like) and shoot straight up with very little foliage except a bit at the top.

I guess they would not be ideal woodworking wood but if I only wanted something to last a couple of years to work out of while I honed my skills and also until the planted willows grew large enough either for weaving a bender or thick enough for a more substantial structure then the first structure would have served its purpose and could be left to return to the earth.

I have made some tests with smaller bits with making a small fence of supports rammed and other sticks thrown between like lean tos. I though I could just do like that with bigger trunks and if I want more inspiration look at neolithic timber structures.

Example neolithic one: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Pfahlbau_Rekonstruktion_Museum_SH_002.jpg
This contemporary bushcraft shelter looks somewhat simpler though, from a quick search: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/SLRDev5LD1c/maxresdefault.jpg

I have only looked at the image so don't know what the process was. How would the walls be standing up on that second image? I just want as simple as I can get to get something to shelter asap.

What would be the general simplest blueprint to work from to make a shelter for using roundwood for that? What type of names are such simple structures called?

Since people say that cheap bought ones only last a couple of years anyway I thought why not make an imperfect one with my own wood in the woodland which may last a similar time and learn a lot along the way.

I keep being told ben law is 'the man' for these types of structures but have not investigated further on that front.

 

[Broch]

Forgive me, it's really hard to give best advice for land without seeing it or understanding it a lot better. Tall deciduous trees with little crown are usually remnants from forestry that has been clear felled or similar. Did your land have woodland (probably conifer) that has been cleared in the past? (if so, make sure it doesn't have a replanting order on it - your willows plan may not satisfy it if there is one).

Until you have positively identified the trees, I would leave them standing. Who knows, you may have the only Ash in the area that are not susceptible to ash die-back. Mature, tall, trees add an aesthetic level to coppice woodland (coppice with standards) and offer better range of structure for biodiversity. In addition, processing the wood to make a shed is not straight forward (depending on what equipment you have) and may well end up costing more than a cheap shed that will last the same period of time (or even longer if it's treated).

A few photos of the area would be good

 

[William_Montgomery]

I would say if you've recently aquired the woodland, it might serve you well to take some time to learn about and understand your specific plot of land before commiting to anything too drastic.
I don't own woodland, but I imagine it's a hugely complex business trying to manage it and requires a lot of general knowledge as well as knowledge specific to your own plot.

For that reason, I'd be tempted to get a shed or caravan on site first.

 

[Stew]

Build one out of reclaimed materials, not your trees.

Look up pallet sheds. You can do a really good job for little cost.
You can get good timber left over from building jobs too. For my shed, the only thing I bought was cladding on two sides for aesthetics plus screws and strap hinges. Everything else was reclaimed or dumped from builders - blocks for the base, floor, wall panels, weatherproof plasterboard, timber for wall frames and roof, metal posts for frame, roof panels, felt, light fitting, two windows, lock.

I suspect that if you cut the trees down you would just end up wasting them whereas you can learn on free / low cost material that’s already square(ish)

 

[Astrochicken]

Aside from the valid commentary on the woodland / specific trees / etc above, a point to note is regarding the base platform should you want to go with a cheap shed - it'll need putting on something solid as it can't just be put on the ground even if you only expect to keep it for a few years. This could mean sand and slabs (the bigger the shed, the thicker the slabs), or a concrete base (which could be really challenging). In either case, the cost and effort is important to factor in, plus the time to set and level the ground / base platform. Some may say you don't need any of this if you can make a raised platform to sit the shed on, which is true, however you would need to accept that the shed may quickly yaw out of shape as the structure settles and as you move around in it. This could easily lead to leaks / gaps and possibly make the shed less useful (depending on what you intend to store in it).

In addition, depending on the size you're thinking and the roadside access, you may also find a major challenge is getting the shed wall panels / roof / floor physically moved from the road to your planned site. If it's a very small shed this will probably be manageable on your own, but if it's more substantial (e.g. 8 x 12 or more) then you're going to need help, including to put it all together.

From my experience with larger sheds at my last place (~1/2 acre) , I'd not buy one again, and would instead spend the same money with a sawmill and get thicker timber than the usual flimsy feather-board and make the whole thing myself. I had to buy a shed I was time-poor and needed a structure up asap, but I wished I'd stuck with my original plan to build it myself as I was always intending to extend (which I eventually did anyway). It would have cost less and been stronger, and would have allowed me to build what I wanted, all in the same material. I say this as it may be that you have a third option of getting some decent boards that you can make into a base / walls / roof, which you build together into your 'shed' on site. Bringing in the materials from the road would be easier, and it would be better than a cheap shed for likely the same money. As you'd have to actually build the shed / felt the rood yourself anyway you might end up with a structure that lasts more like 5 years this way. I got my sawmill to edge profile T+G on the boards for little extra and this made my extensions stronger and easier to put together.

 

[Toddy]

Looking at the images you have shared, I know you'd be astonished at just how many trees that they'd need.

There's a reason that folks learned to split timber into planks.

I don't know your land, but I do know historical and pre-historical building structures.

Firstly, know your land. Then look to your foundations, the soil and where the water runs and pools.

A decent tarp over a lightweight structure can give a lot of shelter. Blocks the wind and rain and lets you have the opportunity to move around easily. Shift to a different site if the first one doesn't suit.

I think I'd have a play with that before I built anything. Get used to the land, blend in quietly without destroying anything.

Best of luck with it

M

 

[bushcraftlearner83729]

Build one out of reclaimed materials, not your trees.

Look up pallet sheds. You can do a really good job for little cost.

Went through this discussion on another forum. I got several suggestions for pallets and when I went into town I asked at about 5 different shops and none would give them away.

Used to be easy from what I remember some years ago to get them, not that I wanted them at the time but people would say they got them from stores from what I recall, but now they don't seem to allow it stating they must be returned. So how do you source them?

 

[bushcraftlearner83729]

Aside from the valid commentary on the woodland / specific trees / etc above, a point to note is regarding the base platform should you want to go with a cheap shed - it'll need putting on something solid as it can't just be put on the ground even if you only expect to keep it for a few years. This could mean sand and slabs (the bigger the shed, the thicker the slabs), or a concrete base (which could be really challenging). In either case, the cost and effort is important to factor in, plus the time to set and level the ground / base platform. Some may say you don't need any of this if you can make a raised platform to sit the shed on, which is true, however you would need to accept that the shed may quickly yaw out of shape as the structure settles and as you move around in it. This could easily lead to leaks / gaps and possibly make the shed less useful (depending on what you intend to store in it).

Thanks for the suggestions.

Yes to base issue especially because it is mostly boggy! My neighbour, who is a dab hand at carpentry was giving me some good general advice. He was saying how if it it boggy you want to drive down into the ground and postcrete the supports in. All well and good but I don't want anything so permanent at the moment with post creting if at any point I would have to take it down.

Along this idea we got to talking about stilt buildings which got me looking up pile dwellings as per: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_pile_dwellings_around_the_Alps

Seems a good route to take. pile some supports into the ground and build the base on stilts.

In addition, depending on the size you're thinking and the roadside access, you may also find a major challenge is getting the shed wall panels / roof / floor physically moved from the road to your planned site. If it's a very small shed this will probably be manageable on your own, but if it's more substantial (e.g. 8 x 12 or more) then you're going to need help, including to put it all together.

From my experience with larger sheds at my last place (~1/2 acre) , I'd not buy one again, and would instead spend the same money with a sawmill and get thicker timber than the usual flimsy feather-board and make the whole thing myself. I had to buy a shed I was time-poor and needed a structure up asap, but I wished I'd stuck with my original plan to build it myself as I was always intending to extend (which I eventually did anyway). It would have cost less and been stronger, and would have allowed me to build what I wanted, all in the same material. I say this as it may be that you have a third option of getting some decent boards that you can make into a base / walls / roof, which you build together into your 'shed' on site. Bringing in the materials from the road would be easier, and it would be better than a cheap shed for likely the same money. As you'd have to actually build the shed / felt the rood yourself anyway you might end up with a structure that lasts more like 5 years this way. I got my sawmill to edge profile T+G on the boards for little extra and this made my extensions stronger and easier to put together.

Ok so maybe a hybrid option, as you say, is get materials myself, either new or reclaimed and build myself. I would tend more towards new simply because it will be easier to source them than waiting around for suitable material which may or may not become available. I am not particularly tight on cash, more tight on time to get something up to work out of.

 

[bushcraftlearner83729]

Looking at the images you have shared, I know you'd be astonished at just how many trees that they'd need.

There's a reason that folks learned to split timber into planks.

I don't know your land, but I do know historical and pre-historical building structures.

So are you saying that is a wasteful use of resources compared to cutting to planks?

I am interested to learn more about this. Can you point me to where I can? I want to know the nuts and bolts of how the historical structures were made as I only see the finished products on places like wikipedia as per here; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_pile_dwellings_around_the_Alps

I want to know how they did the joints and things like that and as you say how much and what material and such.

Firstly, know your land. Then look to your foundations, the soil and where the water runs and pools.

A decent tarp over a lightweight structure can give a lot of shelter. Blocks the wind and rain and lets you have the opportunity to move around easily. Shift to a different site if the first one doesn't suit.

I think I'd have a play with that before I built anything. Get used to the land, blend in quietly without destroying anything.

Best of luck with it

M

Yes I am definitely wanting more of the temporary structures for now. I probably should have posted in the bushcraft forums not homestead for this one as general bushcraft shelters are meant for more 'on the move' temporary shelter aren't they.

 

[Stew]

Went through this discussion on another forum. I got several suggestions for pallets and when I went into town I asked at about 5 different shops and none would give them away.

Used to be easy from what I remember some years ago to get them, not that I wanted them at the time but people would say they got them from stores from what I recall, but now they don't seem to allow it stating they must be returned. So how do you source them?

Find an industrial type park near you - there's one by me that have a sign out that you can take them for free.

Facebook marketplace often has them free, as does freecycle.

I get more than I can use through work ( a school). I've taken to chopping them up and burning them as it's easier for me to dispose of them like that.

 

[Stew]

Thanks for the suggestions.

Yes to base issue especially because it is mostly boggy! My neighbour, who is a dab hand at carpentry was giving me some good general advice. He was saying how if it it boggy you want to drive down into the ground and postcrete the supports in. All well and good but I don't want anything so permanent at the moment with post creting if at any point I would have to take it down.

Along this idea we got to talking about stilt buildings which got me looking up pile dwellings as per: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_pile_dwellings_around_the_Alps

Seems a good route to take. pile some supports into the ground and build the base on stilts.


Ok so maybe a hybrid option, as you say, is get materials myself, either new or reclaimed and build myself. I would tend more towards new simply because it will be easier to source them than waiting around for suitable material which may or may not become available. I am not particularly tight on cash, more tight on time to get something up to work out of.

Postcrete is not a super permanent thing. I can't comment on the longer term impact of introducing it to woodland if abandoned later but I wouldn't be worried about not being able to remove a structure with it later. It's a simple concrete - pour water in hole, tip in postcrete, wait a few minutes to go off then done. It's softish and is chosen because it's so simple to deal with. We don't build houses with it for a reason.

 

[bushcraftlearner83729]

Find an industrial type park near you - there's one by me that have a sign out that you can take them for free.

Facebook marketplace often has them free, as does freecycle.

I get more than I can use through work ( a school). I've taken to chopping them up and burning them as it's easier for me to dispose of them like that.

Guess I was asking in the wrong places! They were so nonplussed at my request in high street stores and got the feeling like I was bothering them by even asking.

 

[Stew]

Guess I was asking in the wrong places! They were so nonplussed at my request in high street stores.

Oh yeah, go bigger!

You want somewhere that get's enough deliveries on pallets that they just get in the way.

 

[bushcraftlearner83729]

Postcrete is not a super permanent thing. I can't comment on the longer term impact of introducing it to woodland if abandoned later but I wouldn't be worried about not being able to remove a structure with it later. It's a simple concrete - pour water in hole, tip in postcrete, wait a few minutes to go off then done. It's softish and is chosen because it's so simple to deal with. We don't build houses with it for a reason.

I have used it a bit when doing voluneer work. I am more concerned about the latter remark about introducing something 'alien' to the environment.

That is what has appealed about building only from wood already on the land, it is already a part of the landscape.

 

[Stew]

I have used it a bit when doing voluneer work. I am more concerned about the latter remark about introducing something 'alien' to the environment.

That is what has appealed about building only from wood already on the land, it is already a part of the landscape.

You would be able to dig the postcrete out later but I get your point. I think you potentially need to be a bit realistic on what's achievable though.

Felling your trees to build to then have to replant seems a bit odd to me.

 

[Toddy]

If you take a Y shaped trunk, and split it, that gives you two matching trucks to use as roof supports....usually those are set upon a to prevent rot. Even in stone buildings we find those protruding stones from the walls which were meant to carry the roof timbers.

It's all very do-able, but you need to suss out the right site...especially if yours is boggy.

We can often find old farmsteadings, deserted medieval villages and the like simply by finding screwed up drainage. Walking on the land compresses it, stops it draining properly, and in short order you've just got mud and hollow pathways.

Bushcraft shelters are known world wide, they come in many forms, here they were hazel, willow, alder, usually, though chestnut splits and oak and lime can be split into layers when beaten and peeled.

Hurdles are good things, using either those as a base, like modern use of the pallets, really helps with the ground conditions. Again, long provenance.
Doesn't always need to be 'good' timber you use, but a log cabin type uses a lot of trees......fine if you're on virgin woodland territory, but that's not really common in the UK these days.

Do you have stone/rock on the site at all ?

 

[Stew]

Japanese rock foundations! Scribe timber to sit on boulders….

 

[bushcraftlearner83729]

Forgive me, it's really hard to give best advice for land without seeing it or understanding it a lot better. Tall deciduous trees with little crown are usually remnants from forestry that has been clear felled or similar. Did your land have woodland (probably conifer) that has been cleared in the past? (if so, make sure it doesn't have a replanting order on it - your willows plan may not satisfy it if there is one).

If you take a Y shaped trunk, and split it, that gives you two matching trucks to use as roof supports....usually those are set upon a to prevent rot. Even in stone buildings we find those protruding stones from the walls which were meant to carry the roof timbers.

A lot of the terminology has gone over my head.

How does one split a whole Y trunk? Easy with a sawmill sure but how to do it using handtools/neolithic techniques? Seems like it would be easier to just find 2 almost matching full trunks.

It's all very do-able, but you need to suss out the right site...especially if yours is boggy.

That is where the piling come in no? That way you don't have to find the perfect site just drive some stilts in and build off the ground.

We can often find old farmsteadings, deserted medieval villages and the like simply by finding screwed up drainage. Walking on the land compresses it, stops it draining properly, and in short order you've just got mud and hollow pathways.

Again, didn't really understand this comment.

Bushcraft shelters are known world wide, they come in many forms, here they were hazel, willow, alder, usually, though chestnut splits and oak and lime can be split into layers when beaten and peeled.

Just looking up wilderness shelters on wikipedia is proving rather informative.

Hurdles are good things, using either those as a base, like modern use of the pallets, really helps with the ground conditions. Again, long provenance.

Funny enough my mum mentioned hurdles just yesterday and first time I recall hearing it in this context.

Doesn't always need to be 'good' timber you use, but a log cabin type uses a lot of trees......fine if you're on virgin woodland territory, but that's not really common in the UK these days.

Yes people online were saying it was worthless/pointless if you do not use the perfect wood and that even the neolithics would choose the 'right' wood but the said article above on wilderness shelters states they would just use what was available which was often less than ideal wood.

Do you have stone/rock on the site at all ?

No, not except the stuff down at the stream and would not be pratical or I guess environmentally considerate to start hauling a load of that up from the water bed.

Pilings seem like best idea I seen so far, or 'hurdles' as you say. Oh or another one, old tyres! Would finally have a good use for those.

 

[Kepis]

No, not except the stuff down at the stream and would not be pratical or I guess environmentally considerate to start hauling a load of that up from the water bed.

Pilings seem like best idea I seen so far, or 'hurdles' as you say. Oh or another one, old tyres! Would finally have a good use for those.

So, you're not wiling to remove rock and stones from a stream as it's not "environmentally considerate", but you are willing to haul in a load of old tyres

 

[Stew]

You want to build it on tyres??