Machette vs small axe

[sargey]

i think the argument has been a little skewed so far.

there are axes and axes. most of the folks posting so far have rightly pointed out the excellence of the gransfors stuff. they're really very good, at a price.

many of the cheaper axes really really need a lot of work to set them up so they are safe to use, most have very uneven edges that can produce very dangerous glancing. i've seen a guy with a hatchet come very close to landing it in his own head as it glanced and bounced off the wood he was chopping.

there are also machetes and machetes. you can get very long thin machetes, suitable really only for cutting grasses. you can get much shorter machetes that are a bit thicker, the old brit army golok is a reasonable example. the shorter thicker machete is a very useable all rounder. as just demonstrated a short sturdy machete is a very versatile tool.

the traditional bilhook shares many of the advantages of the short stout machete. but with better edge holding than most softer machetes. it's a whole 'nother debate as to wether the traditional shape of the billhook, designed largely for cutting near the ground makes a more specialist tool and loosing some of the versatility of the machete. but who really uses the pointy end of a machete?

so yes, an axe of the same weight as your machete will usually out chop your machete, this applies more as the tools get bigger. i sold my gb mini as it had no advantage at all over other tools i owned. but don't be seduced by the power argument alone, if you really need more power, just buy a bigger axe or a bigger machete. but remember that bigger tools have to be paid for with the effort on the hike.

so, dispassionate arguments aside, what would i recommend of the two? the answer is neither. a good medium/small knife and a small saw. they are always useful. see if you can get to a members meet and have a play with their toys before you splash out. failing that, get a short stout machete or a billhook!

cheers, and.

 

[British Red]

Salvaged some piccs that were supposed to support the article...no means completed but this was as far as I got before the "drop , smash, anger" event


















(The one above shows the type of crossgrain wood that the wiseman struggled with)



Red

 

[Dingo]

i find the billhook perfect for our 'outdoors' after all it was designed for woodsmen and hedgelayers, worth a look into for sure, even if only on price, they are readily available even on ebay!

 

[British Red]

Dingo,

I think you are right....as you can see, I need another light chopping tool

Red

 

[greg2935]

My view is that a machete is used in the tropics (and usually only in humid areas) simply because the vast majority of woods you will need to cut through are fast growing (and therefore soft woods), in dryer regions, or more temperate regions the woods tend to be slower growing, and therefore harder, where an axe is more useful.

 

[Nemisis]

I think to be fair and the most usefull you need the staffordshire double bladed bill hook the straight rear edge giving you two edge options further expanding the tools usage and versitility.
Dave

 

[British Red]

Dave,

My fear with the Staffy is that I couldn't baton it through due to the double edge ....clearly I would need an Edgehog pouch as well!

Red

 

[jerv]

1 month ago i would have come down on the side of the axe and small knife combo and still would if weight were not an issue. recently I have been using my leuku (A sami knife like a small machete) alot. i've really warmed to the leuku and it's got a terriffic "pedigree". they weigh alot less than an axe but if you are going to be doing alot of splitting the extra weight of the axe is more than worth it.
a good tool in skillful hands is what you are really after

 

[British Red]

Aaah - skill - I knew I was missing something

 

[laurens ch]

I notice no one has mentioned a kukri, also does the axe outcut machete argument still hold true if you have a machete, that can perform the draw cut like one of the valiant blades.

Just a thought after reading these reviews
http://outdoors-magazine.com/s_article.php?id_article=5

and others at outdoors magazine
http://outdoors-magazine.com/s_topic.php?id_rubrique=21

 

[addyb]

Greg,

What you said about machete's in the jungles makes perfect sense. I suppose that one could look at it this way:

a) In the Canadian Forests, carrying an axe for bushcraft is a MUST. Nothing else will really do, I don't think.

b) In the jungles of Vietnam or Borneo (etc etc...) carring a machete, parang, or kukri is a MUST. Nothing else will really do, I don't think.

Because as they say "Different tools for different jobs."

Adam

 

[OldJimbo]

I notice no one has mentioned a kukri, also does the axe outcut machete argument still hold true if you have a machete, that can perform the draw cut like one of the valiant blades.

A machete can be vastly improved by proper convexing with a grinder. I don't know why the edge lasts longer being more acute - but it certainly does, and cutting is greatly enhanced. You can't do a proper draw cut with a machete, but there are techniques which make it cut much better. Unfortunately they are tiring in constant use, and so somewhat dangerous.
Goloks, parangs, etc are set up for a draw cut and it certainly isn't a myth. Kuks use a special almost reverse draw cut that is tough to master, and I've found them more likely to deflect. It's certainly no problem to chunk up 6-8" diameter seasoned wood with such tools and haul back 3 - 4 foot long sections back to fire. A small hatchet with baton will usually split those long pieces nicely, then the thinner pieces can be chopped easily and fed into fire. Due to twisted grain and knots, long blades simply don't do as well or get stuck. But a person can make some wooden wedges and do fine, even on tree sized samples.
Long blades can be great - but only after lots of practise and if a person knows exactly what they can do and how to safely go about things.

 

[philaw]

My plan is to manage with my cheapo mora knife and laplander saw until I find the pair of them are inadequate for my needs, which I'm not expecting any time soon.

I think that for safety resaons machetes and axes should be the tools of last resort, especially if you don't want to spend time and money on training.

You really need good access to a big forest to make either worthewhile, surely. Axes and especially machetes are also the most threatening. There must be a few people on here that have gotten them and not found decent places to use them, which is something I could see happening to me. You can take a saw to somewhere public, but a machete...

 

[bambodoggy]

My view is that a machete is used in the tropics (and usually only in humid areas) simply because the vast majority of woods you will need to cut through are fast growing (and therefore soft woods), in dryer regions, or more temperate regions the woods tend to be slower growing, and therefore harder, where an axe is more useful.

I know what you're trying to say and agree about growth speeds being faster in the jungle, however, a lot of jungle woods are actually hardwoods (although bamboo is a grass) and a heck of a lot of the borell forests are soft woods such as pines and spruces (but still harder than the soft woods in the UK due to slow growth in the cold).

Sorry....just being a bit pedantic

Bam.

 

[OldJimbo]

I'm not so sure about all fast growing plants being soft. Here in the temperate rainforest the fastest growing stuff in spring is devil's club. It often seems as if you can watch it. Shoots go along the ground for up to five metres, then when they find a place with sunlight turn and grow vertically for up to 2 metres, and support huge leaves that look like something from tropics. That stuff isn't soft and the torque on the shoots must be great.

Other than for needing huge fires in short order, there sure isn't anything wrong with the saw and Mora approach!

 

[Carcajou Garou]

I always carry a HB hatchet or a GB hunters ax, and will pack a CS Kukri along for camp bush work, both have there areas of excellence. But ax does come first and always.

 

[addyb]

No, Jimbo's right about Devil's Club. My favourite place to hike is the Elk River Valley, which is just as he said, a temperate rainforest. But gosh, there is so much Devil's clup there it's not even funny. Even so, it's nothing that a little saw can't take care of.

Well....technically it's not right to cut down any of the brush in the valley unless you're in a survival situation. It's a protected park. Massive and completely out of the way of civilization, but still protected. Taking a machete in there will get a Park Ranger very angry.

Adam