Machette vs small axe

[Joeri]

Hi everyone!
I am quite new to the forum and bushcraft. I have been doing quite some nature related stuff over the years, but just recently got into real bushcraft. On my next bigger hike this summer and want to be able to practice some stuff like making a shelter and building some things. Therefore I need to be able to cut small trees and branches. No I know an axe is necessary (or at least very usefull) and that a machete is used in the tropics for similar stuff. So I was wondering if it would be usefull to bring a machete instead of a little axe.

One of my reasons to go for the machete would be that I want to pack as light as possible. So a big axe is not an option. I want to get maximum force/use out of the weight I am carrying. One of the things that I am thinking of is that to small an axe will give me to little force. So maybe you can deliver more force with a machete of the same weight. Plus the machete might allow for more precision.

But I have no real clue. Do you have any ideas or recommendations? Because for all I know this idea can be everything from very good to the worst one out there.

looking forward to your opinions!
Joeri

 

[Shinken]

I would say go for an axe, in my opinion it is much easier to split wood with axe than machete.

unless you are in a rainforest or heavy scrub

 

[led]

If space and weight was an issue I'd probably take along a small folding saw instead. It's kinder on the trees and branches.

 

[leon-1]

As far as weight is concerned, there isn't a great deal of difference between an SFA, GB Hunters or wetterlings small hunters axe and a reasonable sized machete.

The major difference between the two is the weight distribution (all the metal in an axe being a lump at one end as compared to an object with a large cutting surface that is long and thin).

Both the axe and the machete can be dangerous in use, the machete with it's longer and thinner blade gives a larger area where mistakes can be made.

For splitting, limbing and felling the axe is a better choice in a temperate enviroment, that's not to say that you couldn't use a machete (anyone who uses one a lot would be very effective) just that an axe is probably better suited to the job here.

 

[gregorach]

Every machette I've used has been too thin for effective splitting - the shape of the blade is very important for this. Great for slashing through creepers, lousy for splitting kindling.

Personally, I tend to manage with a folding saw and a knife. A decent knife can be a very effective splitting tool when used with a batton (and some practice).

 

[C_Claycomb]

It depends on the size of stuff you will be working with. Though I love my Small Forest Axe and slightly larger (5-6" blade) sheath knives, for camping/backpacking, you can do a LOT with a 3 or 4" pukko, the Gransfors Mini axe, and a folding pruning saw. In fact, you could probably get by with only a sturdy folding knife and the mini + saw, but that would require more experience and a good idea of what you will be doing.

I have a Martindale Jungle knife, a short machete, but it can't split as well as the mini and just doesn't take such a keen edge.

 

[Naruska]

Every machette I've used has been too thin for effective splitting - the shape of the blade is very important for this. Great for slashing through creepers, lousy for splitting kindling.

My sentiments exactly... I have two pangas from Kenya (long and short), a machete from Nicaragua and a cheapo model from China... they´re great for clearing grass and pencil - thick twigs, opening coconuts etc...but not really for splitting or cutting wood. The blades are so thin, that they always end up getting stuck.

Personally, I tend to manage with a folding saw and a knife. A decent knife can be a very effective splitting tool when used with a batton (and some practice).

You can also just carry a saw blade, and when needed, fashion the bow from a tree branch (very bushcrafty... )

In a previous thread, you`ll find information about the finnish ranger knife (sissipuukko m95)...This is what `ve used for the past ten years...leaving axes, saws etc. behind - more often than not. The blade is as tough as nails, splits wood like a dream when used with a baton (or block of wood) and is way better at lopping off branches/ cutting saplings (up to 5 cm or more in diameter...) than any machete I`ve ever used. I always carry another knife with me in addition to the ranger knife (opinel, puukko, leatherman) to provide redundancy (you might break/lose your knife...) in addition to the fact that whittling and cooking purposes are better served by using another type of blade...

If you do decide on an axe, I`ve found that choose the bigger one...something that is too small is absolutely useless with bigger/harder logs...pocket axes weigh nothing, but are at best only marginally better for hacking away than a proper knife...

P.S. If you decide to go to Finland next summer, most official campsites in the bush (provided with free firewood...please use it sparingly ) are provided with an axe and bow-saw...you won`t need to carry yor own.

Marko

 

[bambodoggy]

Use history as your guide...

The machette has be invented and developed over many years in the tropics because it is best suited to being used there....if an axe was better there then they'd have developed that.

Same story in reverse for the axe in temperate and northern areas.

As others have said there is definately cross over in potencial useage but if you're in northern forest then I'd say an axe (small hatchet should do you unless you're felling larger trees but I can't see why you would be ) would be best.

Failing that why not have a look at the larger knives the Saami use, I've seen them demonstrated to very effective use in Sweden and they hardly weight anything....used with or without a folding saw and your sorted.

Hope that helps,

Bam.

 

[British Red]

Hi everyone!
I am quite new to the forum and bushcraft. I have been doing quite some nature related stuff over the years, but just recently got into real bushcraft. On my next bigger hike this summer and want to be able to practice some stuff like making a shelter and building some things. Therefore I need to be able to cut small trees and branches. No I know an axe is necessary (or at least very usefull) and that a machete is used in the tropics for similar stuff. So I was wondering if it would be usefull to bring a machete instead of a little axe.

One of my reasons to go for the machete would be that I want to pack as light as possible. So a big axe is not an option. I want to get maximum force/use out of the weight I am carrying. One of the things that I am thinking of is that to small an axe will give me to little force. So maybe you can deliver more force with a machete of the same weight. Plus the machete might allow for more precision.

But I have no real clue. Do you have any ideas or recommendations? Because for all I know this idea can be everything from very good to the worst one out there.

looking forward to your opinions!
Joeri

Joeri,

Its an interesting debate....I have engaged in this debate many times with a very experienced guy - we have yet to agree! My view is:

1 tool - good four of five inch fixed blade knife
2 tools - add a folding saw (Laplander)
3 tools add a broad profile axe (Roselli allround)
4 tools add a razor sharp folding knife

Many / most here will advise on a Gransfors Bruks Small Forest. Its a great axe, but, given the folding saw weighs little, I'll probably do most cutting with the saw and splitting with the axe. I find my GB "sticks" due to its blade profile whereas the Roselli doesn't (but is a better splitter than cutter).

Anyway, the guy I argue with uses a kukri and Swiss Army Knife as tools 1 & 2 and reckons he gets better flexibility. I'm not convinced but have invested in a Wiseman Survival knife to perform some tests - I'll let you know how I get on!

Red

 

[PatrickM]

You could try a billhook - I find this to be an ideal tool for shelter building and other tasks. Billhooks come in a variety of shapes and sizes and In my opinion, it is a more versatile tool than the small forest axe.

 

[CLEM]

How about a good olde fashioned British billhook????

Ooooops PatrickM beat me too it!

 

[Naruska]

Check this out!!! www.mustax.fi (..bumped into it by mistake...). This is how you turn a knife into an axe...!?!

Is this a billhook...?
http://www.fiskars.com/FI/fi/Työkalut/Garden+Details?contentId=81251

Marko

 

[laurens ch]

I would choose a folding saw and a small hatchet, the saw can do the cutting of large wood. While you can do things like steak large pieces of wood with the hatchet split etc. If you get on well with a machete you could take that instead.

 

[British Red]

Check this out!!! www.mustax.fi (..bumped into it by mistake...). This is how you turn a knife into an axe...!?!

Is this a billhook...?
http://www.fiskars.com/FI/fi/Työkalut/Garden+Details?contentId=81251

Marko

Naruska,

Right shape but ours are generally much heavier than that one. More like this

Red

 

[Naruska]

Right shape but ours are generally much heavier than that one. More like this

In Finland, this is called a vesuri...I think Roselli makes one also, in carbon steel...These are very common in Finland, because of their versatility in forestry work (which nowadays is done by machines... )

Fiskars makes two different types: the high-tech, composite handle, teflon coated version...but they also do one with a wooden handle and carbon steel blade..prices are in the region of 25 to 40 euros...if memory serves me correctly...(?)

Marko

 

[ilan]

Just my two pennyworth , I have an old butchers cleaver which i got from a car boot fair similar in weight to a bill hook takes a wicked edge yet has the thickness to split wood. like a bill hook you can cut of the side branches easily and neatly yet still easily cut feather sticks my blade is about 9ins long and 5ins deep 1/4 steel. alternatly try and find a hedge layers bill hook as it has a blade on the rear as sometimes the recurve of the traditional one gets in the way . You are indeed fortunate to be able to cut down standing timber and as for traditional splitting logs again its rare to have to do this as its eccological best to burn the thinner stuff and leave the heavier to become home to some natural forna .

 

[British Red]

Sounds about the same as ours - now one of the guys on BB makes leather sheaths for them - look really nice in the pictures!

Red

 

[Longstrider]

The machete is a wonderful tool for clearing smaller stuff such as briar and thinner wood, but if you want to cut thicker branches and split logs for the fire the axe is the tool for the job. I have a lovely old Burmese machete that has done more brush clearing than any other tool I own, but I'll reach for the axe (SFA these days) for anything bigger than a couple of inches in diameter or for splitting. The axe has the added advantage of having the cutting edge further from your hands when in use. The length of the edge on a machete can prove hazardous to those not used to using one.
The combination of a good knife, an axe like the SFA, and a folding saw will see you having the right tool for the job in most situations in temperate climates.

 

[Naruska]

I have a frame pack made by Savotta (model 906), that has a detachable upper bow...the pack is designed so that a long saw blade fits into the pack-frame tubes...you use the upper bow as a component of the saw...

You might want to check out the company website(www.finn-savotta.fi), as these guys supply the Finnish armed forces with kit. Their products have a reputation of being virtually indestructible...

Marko

 

[CLEM]

Just my two pennyworth , I have an old butchers cleaver which i got from a car boot fair similar in weight to a bill hook takes a wicked edge yet has the thickness to split wood. like a bill hook you can cut of the side branches easily and neatly yet still easily cut feather sticks my blade is about 9ins long and 5ins deep 1/4 steel. alternatly try and find a hedge layers bill hook as it has a blade on the rear as sometimes the recurve of the traditional one gets in the way . You are indeed fortunate to be able to cut down standing timber and as for traditional splitting logs again its rare to have to do this as its eccological best to burn the thinner stuff and leave the heavier to become home to some natural forna .

When I was a kid I did a little work(gardening mainly) for a nice old woman in my street,one day I was digging at the very end of her garden after clearing some gorse I dug up what I can only describe as a butchers cleaver for butchering whales and elephants,it was about three feet long and obviously made for two handed operation,rusty as hell but damn it could cut through just about anything easier than anything I have used then or since.Ive no idea what this tool was but it looked like the butchers cleaver on steroids.