Loss of fat mass and lean mass
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It's still about fat and muscle and caloric density. Gross Production = Net Production + Respiration.
What did it cost you to kill and butcher that bison?
Chase a small herd. Run them over a cliff, they kill each other. Feed the whole village.
Multipurpose hides and hair and sinew and bone, too.
I've been preparing bison for meals using flint flakes as knives. Fantastic edges, a real delight to work with.
What did it cost you to kill and butcher that bison?
Chase a small herd. Run them over a cliff, they kill each other. Feed the whole village.
Multipurpose hides and hair and sinew and bone, too.
I've been preparing bison for meals using flint flakes as knives. Fantastic edges, a real delight to work with.
Funny though how the native American population is much smaller, despite the availability of the bison herds, than comparable average where people farmed.
Take 1500's for instance (when we can find fairly reliable methodologies to do the arithmetic and before the European's got in the way of the 'traditional lifestyle' ) comparing similar land masses in North America and China with their populations.
https://blog.hiddenharmonies.org/20...ear-1ad-1500ad-and-2000ad-and-some-questions/
Farming beats hunting hands down.
Hunting is never assured, even with huge herds, and hunting by cliff means that the people can still only process so much, despite a huge largesse. Archaeology (and anthropology) clearly shows that much of the carcass was left to rot.
It's all very well, as Janne wrote, saying that meat will keep, can be preserved, but it's take a heck of a lot of time and effort and labour to do so, and it doesn't keep well except in very specific situations.
They didn't do the salt cure method, they did do drying it, but that means not only gathering fuel (bison dung burns, (prairie coals) but we have no evidences for real coal being used for this purpose, afaik, I know there were trees on the plains, but I think forests were rare; no? or hoping for good weather and no predators) but prepping the meat beforehand too, and they did make pemmican….which as discussed in an earlier thread need the right ingredients, in the right mix, in the right storage conditions, to be safely edible.
Farming on the other hand produced a surplus that could (and was) be bartered, sold and stored for the lean times. There was enough surplus that they could feed draught animals through the hungry winter and have them fit enough to plough land come spring….so more crops were produced than were possible with just man powered labour.
I've butchered using flint too; it's surprisingly effective, it gives one a total re-evaluation of the ability of stone tools. No getting away from it though, butchery is hard work, and skinning and tanning hides is both time consuming and laborious.
M
Take 1500's for instance (when we can find fairly reliable methodologies to do the arithmetic and before the European's got in the way of the 'traditional lifestyle' ) comparing similar land masses in North America and China with their populations.
https://blog.hiddenharmonies.org/20...ear-1ad-1500ad-and-2000ad-and-some-questions/
Farming beats hunting hands down.
Hunting is never assured, even with huge herds, and hunting by cliff means that the people can still only process so much, despite a huge largesse. Archaeology (and anthropology) clearly shows that much of the carcass was left to rot.
It's all very well, as Janne wrote, saying that meat will keep, can be preserved, but it's take a heck of a lot of time and effort and labour to do so, and it doesn't keep well except in very specific situations.
They didn't do the salt cure method, they did do drying it, but that means not only gathering fuel (bison dung burns, (prairie coals) but we have no evidences for real coal being used for this purpose, afaik, I know there were trees on the plains, but I think forests were rare; no? or hoping for good weather and no predators) but prepping the meat beforehand too, and they did make pemmican….which as discussed in an earlier thread need the right ingredients, in the right mix, in the right storage conditions, to be safely edible.
Farming on the other hand produced a surplus that could (and was) be bartered, sold and stored for the lean times. There was enough surplus that they could feed draught animals through the hungry winter and have them fit enough to plough land come spring….so more crops were produced than were possible with just man powered labour.
I've butchered using flint too; it's surprisingly effective, it gives one a total re-evaluation of the ability of stone tools. No getting away from it though, butchery is hard work, and skinning and tanning hides is both time consuming and laborious.
M
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I don't believe if did die out in Europe… it's simply called 'pear shaped' these days 
but come the advent of farming it seems that folks covered up more most of the time, and skirts hide and conceal the curvy fatty areas on females…..farming lets folks produce fibre crops too, and it's much more comfortable clothing than being wrapped in animal skins all the time or going bare skud.
Can't remember where I read it now, sorry, but there was a huge comparative theology article on the Adam and Eve story, and it boiled down to Adam being exiled from the garden, but the garden was the walled/ fenced garden where the choice plants were grown, like the apple trees kept safe from marauding fruit eating animals. It was a kind of origin myth for the spread of agriculture in different areas of the world.
M
but come the advent of farming it seems that folks covered up more most of the time, and skirts hide and conceal the curvy fatty areas on females…..farming lets folks produce fibre crops too, and it's much more comfortable clothing than being wrapped in animal skins all the time or going bare skud.Can't remember where I read it now, sorry, but there was a huge comparative theology article on the Adam and Eve story, and it boiled down to Adam being exiled from the garden, but the garden was the walled/ fenced garden where the choice plants were grown, like the apple trees kept safe from marauding fruit eating animals. It was a kind of origin myth for the spread of agriculture in different areas of the world.
M
True enough about the seabirds; it's still done in our Western Isles, the Guga hunt.
https://www.virtualheb.co.uk/guga-hunters-of-ness-isle-of-lewis-western-isles/
but it's an addition to the diet, not the basis for it.
Fermented fish is well known, the Romans favourite sauce was made from fish like that (personally I find the whole concept of eating something scaly and eyebally and boney like a fish to be totally incomprehensible, but the other Toddy loves the stuff ) Surprised at the dates you give for the Swedish feremented fish, I thought the ice was still there until around 11000 bce, and that the lower and middle parts of the peninsula were flooded until the land rebounded enough to raise it from the sea much later on.
That said, we're pretty sure that the Europeans fished and hunted the ice edges right through the last ice age.
M
https://www.virtualheb.co.uk/guga-hunters-of-ness-isle-of-lewis-western-isles/
but it's an addition to the diet, not the basis for it.
Fermented fish is well known, the Romans favourite sauce was made from fish like that (personally I find the whole concept of eating something scaly and eyebally and boney like a fish to be totally incomprehensible, but the other Toddy loves the stuff ) Surprised at the dates you give for the Swedish feremented fish, I thought the ice was still there until around 11000 bce, and that the lower and middle parts of the peninsula were flooded until the land rebounded enough to raise it from the sea much later on.
That said, we're pretty sure that the Europeans fished and hunted the ice edges right through the last ice age.
M
The Scandinavian ice sheet reached right across what is now the North Sea to cover northern Britain though. The rebound depends on both the depth (and subsequent weight) of the ice, and the underlying plate itself. Scotland is still rising but parts of England and going down as the land rebalances.
Thought this was interesting though; it appears that the very arid climate meant that Alaska was really dry, as was Denmark.
Also, worth a read through
http://www.su.se/english/research/p...link-in-europe-s-final-ice-age-story-1.256448
A bloater is a salted and cold smoked (up to eighteen hours), ungutted herring. It's not usually left to 'ferment' per se.
Thought this was interesting though; it appears that the very arid climate meant that Alaska was really dry, as was Denmark.
Also, worth a read through
http://www.su.se/english/research/p...link-in-europe-s-final-ice-age-story-1.256448
A bloater is a salted and cold smoked (up to eighteen hours), ungutted herring. It's not usually left to 'ferment' per se.
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One of your "must-reads" will be Kurlansky's: "A History of Salt." Some 1,400 uses and applications.
He says that every place name in the UK ending in -wich was a salt source.
They made more profit off salt fish and salt cod from the Grand Banks than they ever did with piracy and plunder.
The money you make. Your salary = salarum (L), the salt which was paid to the Roman soldiers.
He says that every place name in the UK ending in -wich was a salt source.
They made more profit off salt fish and salt cod from the Grand Banks than they ever did with piracy and plunder.
The money you make. Your salary = salarum (L), the salt which was paid to the Roman soldiers.
I didn't know that about the -wich ending I knew of it as a derivative of vicus, the dwellings around some workplace or other.
I do know that there's a really long history of making salt from brine though. The Roman salt pans along the south coast of France, etc., are still used, and even here in Scotland the process was used on our east coast during the summer. The rest of the year the huge wide salt pans were heated and tended all year round.
In England salt was mined in Cheshire and Shropshire, and the local springs were used for brine. The Romans used wide lead pans to dry off the brine to extract the salt crystals.
I knew of it as a derivative of vicus, the dwellings around some workplace or other.I do know that there's a really long history of making salt from brine though. The Roman salt pans along the south coast of France, etc., are still used, and even here in Scotland the process was used on our east coast during the summer. The rest of the year the huge wide salt pans were heated and tended all year round.
In England salt was mined in Cheshire and Shropshire, and the local springs were used for brine. The Romans used wide lead pans to dry off the brine to extract the salt crystals.
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I don't, but why not ?
It appears that some populations tolerate salt a great deal more easily than others. You can keep the sugar if I can have the salt
Not really, but I think that the folks who substitute low salt need to think carefully.
On salt tolerance though…..
http://www.gbhealthwatch.com/Trait-Salt-Sensitivity.php
That's surprising. That it had such an effect on her, and I'm sorry to hear it too.
Our salt is simply Na+Cl- with no additives at all, and iodine issues are pretty much unheard of here.
Fish or dairy rich diets rarely have problems with iodine.
I think it's like most things though, it really depends on the individual concerned.
M
Our salt is simply Na+Cl- with no additives at all, and iodine issues are pretty much unheard of here.
Fish or dairy rich diets rarely have problems with iodine.
I think it's like most things though, it really depends on the individual concerned.
M
Some get their knickers in a twist about food additives but iodine in table salt has proven its worth.
Salt is a very old word which means crystallized mineral. Potassium nitrate = Saltpeter = a kind of salt.
I collect sodium chloride salts from around the world. There are 11 on my dining room table. More in the kitchen.
By law, none of them have to reveal the concentrations of additives or imputities. None.
No need for North Sea salt laced with carcinogenic beach tar.
Salish alder smoked salt is good but the Spanish Matiz is wonderfully pungent like our forest fires.
The saltiest-tasting salt that I've ever run across comes out of a mine in Poland.
Hawaiian pink salt and Murray River (Australia) pink salt are no big deal.
The salt from Cyprus has crystallized into the most magnificent little hollow white pyramids.
I invite my company to control their own salt intake and select anything I have.
Salt is a very old word which means crystallized mineral. Potassium nitrate = Saltpeter = a kind of salt.
I collect sodium chloride salts from around the world. There are 11 on my dining room table. More in the kitchen.
By law, none of them have to reveal the concentrations of additives or imputities. None.
No need for North Sea salt laced with carcinogenic beach tar.
Salish alder smoked salt is good but the Spanish Matiz is wonderfully pungent like our forest fires.
The saltiest-tasting salt that I've ever run across comes out of a mine in Poland.
Hawaiian pink salt and Murray River (Australia) pink salt are no big deal.
The salt from Cyprus has crystallized into the most magnificent little hollow white pyramids.
I invite my company to control their own salt intake and select anything I have.
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