Log cabin materials, some help please.

[RobF]

Hi all,

My grandfather and I are looking at building a log cabin in his back garden. This will mainly be used as a fully functioning, self contained cabin and on occasion be used as a simple guest room for people staying over.
We have chosen the space for it and a rough size (5mx4m), now I am starting to price it up, this is where I need some help.
I thought we could use second hand telegraph poles for the logs but due to creosote covering them I would prefer not to.
Have any of you got any experience of building a cabin or researched it as I need some advice on where I can get a large number of logs without paying £200 odd quid each log.
I'm not adverse to going to a forest and felling some trees if the land owner needs some taking down its just trying to find the materials.

Hopefully some of you can help, if not I shall start saving the pennies!!!

Rob

 

[Retired Member southey]

hello Rob, I am trying to think of gettarounds but to use logs the diameter your gonna need youll be hitting cash crop diameters, it will cost, have you thought of using pallet wood maybe, or going down the pre milled log cabin route, still costly but easier to get hold of,

 

[mountainm]

You considered bamboo at all?
http://www.ukbamboo.co.uk/prods/bamboo-poles-length-4mtrs-x-diameter-100-120mm-x-5.html

 

[RobF]

I thought of using pallets and the pre-fab route, it's just not got the appeal I am looking for.
We are going to build this for fun and really would like to do logs, I've seen some cabins built out of scaffolding boards and then an outer skin of cut logs to hide it, it looks ok but at the corners its still visibly fake.
If needed I will use a material like that but i'm just hoping i dont need to.
I had never thought of using bamboo's looking at that link they look a decent size and obviously good strength, what are they like working with?

 

[mountainm]

I had never thought of using bamboo's looking at that link they look a decent size and obviously good strength, what are they like working with?

No idea - sorry.

 

[Jared]

I remember a thread started by a cabin builder

Ah found it:

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30233

 

[RobF]

Cor blimey, that does look good!
I'm an architect by trade, once I finish designing this ill post some plans on here for people to have a gander at.
As long as I can decide on/find some materials I will also put together a build blog to see.
I'm sure you will all appreciate that.

 

[santaman2000]

Are you sure the used utility poles are creosoted? They stopped using creosote over here decades ago due to the toxicity.

 

[RobF]

The ones that I've seen are yes, any that become used it's because they're no longer suitable for their role. new ones no longer have creosote on them but it'll be many years before they need to be replaced so until them I'm stuck with a market flooded with older generation ones.

 

[santaman2000]

I see. Then what's the possibility (economic practicality) of just buying new utility poles? The ones with the more modern treatment.

 

[mrcharly]

A log cabin built of concrete wouldn't be very attractive.

Rob, I have a friend who built a log cabin house in Lancashire. Can put you in touch if you'd like?

 

[Exploriment]

It’s always seemed to me that the appeal of log homes is largely about nostalgia. Not so much that they’re an inherently better form of construction, just that it has that whole rich history of the early settlement of this continent tied up in it. They probably made a lot of sense to the early pioneers, who utilized their environment to sustain them. When they had a chunk of land with great old forest trees on it, and an immediate need to shelter their family, a log cabin undoubtedly made sense. Now, those old growth trees are gone, and all that remains in most places are far inferior trees. Often times, third or fourth growth. When you need to ship suitable trees from halfway across the continent, it just starts to seem more like the privilege of the very wealthy who harbour romantic ideals of life on the frontier.

I was in a grocery store years ago and the cashier comments on the log home magazine the woman in front of me was buying.
“My fiancee has 25 acres in Lanark county and he’s going to build a log cabin from the trees on it, and we’re going to live there.”

I had to suppress my laughter. But I didn’t bite my tongue.
“There is no way that you can build a log cabin with the trees to be found on 25 acres in Lanark. In a hundred to one hundred and fifty years maybe.”

Having lived there, and having covered large areas of the county on foot, having cleared sugar bushes, having helped clean up other peoples property after the ice storm of 98, I knew that the place had been too extensively logged of prime trees to make that a very realistic dream. Save for maple trees due to their economic value, any tree of any real worth had likely been taken down at some point. Oh sure there were pine and oak and beech and all sorts of other nice trees, but they were either the crooked ones or very young trees that required several decades to mature before they would be good for anything other than firewood.

You’re dreaming if you’re hoping to get logs for a bargain. Given their scarcity, given the insatiable demand for wood, given several other factors, that’s fanciful at best. I live in a country where trees are far more plentiful than they are in the UK, and logs are not cheap anywhere.

A far more feasible option would be to look at cordwood construction.

"Cordwood Masonry Houses" by Robert L. Roy Pub: Sterling Publishing Co. ISBN:0-8069-5418-3
"Complete Book of Cordwood Masonry Housebuilding" by Rob Roy Pub:Sterling Publishing Co. ISBN 0-8069-8590-9

Most forest can easily provide enough trees for cordwood construction.

 

[santaman2000]

Actually logs are inherently better than conventional stick built frame. First their thermal mass is far better. Second they're surprisingly more resistant to catching fire (although it's true that once aflame they're also more dificult to extinguish)

Cost of suitable logs here in the South is still reasonably cheap; After all, with a conventional stick built home you have to pay not only for the logs, but also to have them processed down to lumber. But the cheaper material cost is likely offset by labor costs if you really want to find someone who knows what they're doing. The reality of the high costs though is that today's market is for buildings that are really just too large for log construction.

 

[Elen Sentier]

Yes please to the build blog ... would love to do this . Also got some friends who might actually do it so could give them the link if you don't mind. The cabin in the link looks soooo good!

 

[santaman2000]

If indeed you do build it, remember that any window and door frames must be installed "floating." By that I mean do NOT try to attach them rgidly as they'ee be crushed as the logs settle over time.

 

[RobF]

Santaman new telegraph poles vary in price but it's about £200 a pole, more ideally than id want to spend.

Mrcharly I'd like that very much.

Exploriment, yes its about nostalgia. I like building projects we are just coming to the end of building a western style chuck wagon, we've built it as traditionally as possible while still making it able to be used properly (we have no intention of using it properly, but it was fun doing it). I am also well aware that they were much easier to build when settlers moved to an area which was densely populated with good quality trees. This doesn't however change anything. If there are no ways to do this cheaper then we will do with with deep pockets, this is about building something with character which my grandfather (an avid re-enactor) will look at with awe and satisfaction, when he gets to the point he can no longer go across the pond and stay on ranches, herding cattle. This will be a taste of that for him every time he wants to go outside.
I hope that clears up my reasoning for wanting to do this.

I have not heard of cordwood construction it seems interesting, but it doesn't have what we are looking for. I am not against different construction techniques, one of my favourite ways to design buildings is straw-bale construction.

 

[santaman2000]

That price sounds close to triple what they are here (once you allow for the currency exchange rate) Another option might be to use much smaller landscaping timbers (about 4 inches in diameter and 6-8 feet long) You'd need to use the "short log" constructio method to get the size cabin you want. In that method the logs don't go the full length but rather the succesive tiers are staggered to maintain structural integrity. even then it won't really be what you're looking for.

All in all I think Southey's suggestion of getting a pre milled cabin kit is probably the most practical.

 

[greenshooots]

not all cabins where made of wood, ie there was adobe, sod and straw bales ... Shift+R improves the quality of this image. CTRL+F5 reloads the whole page.

greenshoots

 

[mountainm]

Straw bales and render (with flame retardent) or pebble filled gabbions clad with burnt larch planks may be an option?

 

[spandit]

A friend of mine built a 3 storey house from mud (Cobb) in Devon - that's cheap, attractive and environmentally sound