light,lighter. lightest-right righter rightest

[Man of Tanith]

a bit of a mis-quote of Mr Kephart there but i think its valid

was curious as to how folks load outs have changed since they first began on their bushcraft wanderings?

i went from packing a stupendously heavy amount not necessarily loads of kit just weighty stuff, i then went to a more one pack of specific size and never more shall be carried approach to kit which worked well however i have strayed once more back to the kitchen sink approach to camping which is a pity and i feel i must start planning some more minimal/lesser kit nights out.

as an example last year in the snow i coped with 70ltr rucksack and was fine for two nights this year no snow umpteen tons of kit.

time to brush down a smaller pack and really assess what i use/need methinks

 

[Fin]

What you describe is my experience to a tee! Except that I've decided not to try and fight it!

In my early days (influenced by the Army) everything was canvas, wool and stainless steel (weighed a ton!). As technology and the internet "educated" us I went down the ultralight route with synthetics and aluminium followed by titanium. Great if you wanted to run up the side of a mountain (which I was want to do in those days) but it slowly dawned on me as I got older that synthetics made me sweat (and stink!), made me sound like a bag of crisps as I moved about and didn't give me a good night's sleep. Aluminium and Titanium was great for boiling water but, for me, not much good for anything else (I can still taste the aluminium in water boiled in it and titanium is rubbish as an all round cooking surface - try frying on it - some bits of the bacon will be burnt black whilst other bits will still be raw).

So...I recognised my advancing years and went back to natural (heavy) fibres and stainless steel. I'm not saying my way is the best way - there are still plenty of young lads and lasses on this forum who like cantering up the sides of mountains and keep old f*rts like me abreast of the latest gear - and one of my greatest pleasures is when some young "newbie" points me in the direction of something wonderful - be it practice or gear, long may that continue. But...I've slowed down and am happy to admit it. Cotton, Wool, Ventile and Canvas is heavy but silent and doesn't make me sweat unduly (my unframed canvas backpack is the most comfortable I've ever had). Stainless steel cookware is consistent and has a solidity that will last anyone forever. I rarely reach double figures in milage in one day (8 miles is the longest trek I have to one of my sites). I find more the pleasure in being there rather than getting there - if that makes sense!

 

[Chiseller]

@ Fin......poetry

.

The Mighty Oak Is Merely A Nut Who Stood His Ground

 

[Kerne]

Went down the ultralight route and loved it - did the C2C with a 40lt pack and sub 20lbs-ish, for example. Since getting more bushy my pack weight has gone up again, largely due to wanting to use traditional materials and kit that I have made myself. However, I have never gone back to the days of 70lt rucksacks and the kitchen sink - not while on a "journey" anyway. At a static camp? I need pack horses and a truck!

 

[redandshane]

Interesting post and resonates with me but the one big factor for me is my knees
I now use a walking stick or pole for any long walks with weight and keep a close eye on my pack weight I tend to try and be lightish weight but I do like to be comfortable and prepared
I use a mix of kit as I think most people do
Water and food give me the biggest problems
I need a Sherpa really

 

[RonW]

Started with surplus/militar/synthetics and am now going the natural/traditional way, but my pack never went over 25kg and that was fully packed.
Well, it did the last time, but that was with the beefy bedroll.
I think if I stock up for a multiday trip and bring all the food, bells and whistles I could hit 30kg, which is fine, since I'm not really a trekker anyway.

 

[Man of Tanith]

Part of the reason i got interested in bushcraft was i was tired of the kitchen sink approach to camping.
interesting you mention your knees Redandshane i have dodgy knees which is another incentive to not carry so much kit, although this year has all been car camping orientated so the temptation has been to load up as if on expedition, not helped by shiney kit syndrome.
@Ron i am not suprised it went over with that monster strapped on your pack!
@fin-makes perfect sense to me

 

[oldtimer]

Most of the posts above resonate with me too. I first started in the 1950's with brass Primus, canvas tent, Gillwell canteen etc. My pack weight was around 30lbs ie about 13 Kilos. Now I can afford lightweight tent, down bag use esbit or pepsi stove and generally know a lot more about kit. My pack nowadays weighs around 13 kilos ie about 30 lbs. No change? Change in pack contents, yes: GPS, mobile phone, spare batteries; feel cold more so more warm clothes; knees toublesome, so walking poles; advancing age, so medication and larger FAK.... and so on

 

[ged]

When I was a young kid I didn't have much kit at all, and neither did many of my mates. None of us had any money. I just had a water bottle, a box of matches and a knife. I'd either make a shelter or sleep in somebody else's tent. We never went very far. Even so, we all had a great time.

When I went on Duke of Edinburgh as a teenager I wanted to have my own tent. In those days it was canvas of course. The separate groundsheet was some rubber-backed thing that must have weighed a kilo, and like the U2 batteries in my Ever Ready torch (which I guess weighed about the same), it didn't last very long. I still have the tent, although I daren't use it any more and anyway British Airways lost the poles a couple of decades ago.

Being at school with no real income I couldn't afford a sleeping bag, so it was a couple of wool blankets and some big safety pins. I got a big rucksack, which was canvas with a steel frame, and found a big brass Primus stove from somewhere. The only lightweight kit I had was a couple of ex-army mess tins, which are now in the Jeep. I dread to think what that lot weighed when it was all packed in and tied onto the rucksack. Although I'd walked around with it a bit to get the feel of it, I hadn't tried going upstairs thirty or forty times with it and I should have. The first DofE trip was in the Peak District, and we did a few more miles than I'd ever done before. I well remember being left behind by all my mates on a two hundred metre climb somewhere near Highpeak Junction. But they got lost and I didn't, smug little beggar I was when they eventually turned up at the camp site and I was already cooking sausage and beans in the tent. With my neckerchief wrapped round my finger because I'd sliced it open with the can-opener blade on my knife. It was still covered in blood when I got on the bus home a week later, filthy, soaking wet and starving hungry. That trip was one of the best of my life.

Since then things haven't really changed much. The kit's lighter but there's more of it. A lot more. The first aid kit's a lot better and I still keep cutting myself open with sharp things. Most of the time when I'm camping I'm on the bike, and it's more a question of what will fit in the space available than what it weighs. I have way more kit than I can ever take all at once and I mix and match a bit, trying to see what works with what and what doesn't. There are far more combinations and permutations than I'll ever be able to try but I'm working on it.

 

[sapper1]

I prefer to go as lightweight as I can.I use some titanium as it's light and strong,also I generally cook by boiling water or soup and if I'm cooking something solid it gets cooked on a stick.As to noisy materials it doesn't bother me as long as they're waterproof.
The whole thing for me about my kit is the fact that if I need something that I don't carry then I can make what I need.
My main reason for going lightweight would have to be laziness,I found it hard work to carry stacks of kit and by the time I reached where I was going I was too tired to enjoy it.
Don't get me wrong I think everybody should use what suits them,I like lightness because it's easy and the whole outdoors thing (to me) is about being out there and enjoying it and enjoying whatever you are doing,be it boiling water for a brew in the latest ultralight space age material or cooking a stew in a 40 year old dutch oven.

 

[RonW]

Hey Sam
that monster "only" weighs a little less than 5kg... There was also full set of extra clothes in there; pants, shirt, pullover, socks, long undies.... And a complete daysrations in food.
So I'm guessing somewhere around 10kg extra because of the cold weather. In summer my fully laden pack weighs around 20kg with multiple dayrations.

 

[Ichneumon]

Oh Ged! Your reminiscences certainly rang enough bells with me to stock a church tower. Two blanket with large (nappy) pins - oh yes, I remember it well. Kit and trips like you describe are indelibly burned into my memories.

Do you think we are reliving our childhood now or did we just never grow up?

ATB

Paul

 

[Fizzy]

interesting you mention your knees Redandshane i have dodgy knees which is another incentive to not carry so much kit, although this year has all been car camping orientated so the temptation has been to load up as if on expedition, not helped by shiney kit syndrome

Another one here with knee problems (and shiny kit syndrome). Just been told I have Osteoarthritis in my left knee and I've been advised against long walks, especially carrying weight, so it looks like I'm going to have to go down the 'lightest is best' route. The problem is, I always try and cover myself for most eventualities and even build redundancy into that

 

[cbr6fs]

Being the curious type i've tried most material types and still keep trying them, problem with many things like clothing materials, cooking set metals etc is that many many times our opinions come about from preconceived notions and subliminal opinions that we have heard about.

As an example i've been using a certain base layer for over 1 year now, and it's by far the best i've come across, it's comfortable, wicks well, doesn't smell and is reasonably priced.
Hearing this my mate asked if he could try one.
On handing it over i told him a bit about the material and on hearing it was man made fibres he started complaining about how he didn't like how it felt on his skin, made him sweat etc etc, still he said he'd try it.
Few weeks later he handed it back and basically replayed what he said before even wearing it, hated how it felt next to his skin, made him sweat, caused a rash etc etc.

Odd thing is i've been using this for over 1 year and none of his "experiences" made any sense.

So a few weeks later i gave him the exact same base layer but in a different colour and with a turtle neck kind of design, tis time though i lied and told him it was Merino wool.
He still has the top, wears it every time he's out walking and absolutely loves it.
He even bestows it's virtues on walks telling how natural fibres are so much better, he likes it THAT much i honestly don't have the heart to tell him

So as with any walk of life our kit choices are made up mainly of preconceived ideas, we choose many items to fail even before we try them.

I have noticed that there does seem to be a trend on here with many people going for military style clothing.
This is often a cheap way to get kitted up so should not be knocked.
It does kinda bemuse me though when i see people paying more for some used, outdated, heavy, uncomfortable exMOD kit than something far superior from say Berghaus, Mountain Equipment etc.

There is no right or wrong choices, we spend our hard earned on stuff that we want, if people keep an open mind though there are often better lighter solutions out there.

For me my kit weight and choice depends entirely on my activity.
If i'm planning on walking 20 miles in a day and wild camping then i'll pack as light as possible and make severe compromises to save as many grams as i can.

If i'm out camping with the kids then i know i need to make life a little bit more comfortable for them, plus we won't be doing anywhere near 20 miles, so my kit becomes heavier.

If our only intention is to walk far enough to wild camp then we'll go even heavier and even take stuff like fold away chairs.

If we are car camping then everything plus the kitchen sink comes along.


So kit weight for us depends entirely on the activity and how far we plan on walking.

The great thing about bushcraft for me is that instead of lugging things miles, we often have the ability to carry lighter loads because we are able to make more use of the natural materials around us.



Cheers
Mark

 

[Corfe]

When I was young, I was pretty much poor, and I used army kit all the time because it had been issued to me, was therefore free, and did the job. To this day, I prefer a basha over a tent, so long as I have trees to tie it to. The army surplus stuff is hard-wearing. I have a berghaus gore-tex jacket but I would never wear it anywhere near a campfire - I don't even like smoking my pipe while wearing it for fear of burning a hole! So it's partly a case of what you're doing, and what you're comfortable in. Surplus stuff is heavy, but it's not bad, and it's pretty tough. That works for me. I know guys who go out encased in Gore-Tex and all manner of lightweight space-age stuff, but it's for walking in, not for campfire-bushcraft stuff. Different strokes...

 

[mousey]

Definatly Light.

When I did the DoE my pack was the lighest out of everyones and I still thought it was heavy...

The problem I have these days is the water and food, I like to have plenty of that, but the good side is the further I go the lighter my pack gets

The last big walk [a couple of years a go now] I did I think my pack was around 20kg + a bit more maybe, including 4 litres of water and enough food for 3 days. I have got into making my own stuff recently and have a bag with most of the stuff I'd need for a short excursion ready, I think that weighs around 8kg so with 4 litres of water, some food and a few other odds n sods, maybe everything will weigh around 15kg these days. Unfortunatley that still feels heavy [yes I am a complete weakling and pansy - but I don't want to be totally knackered when I stop]

I always find it's a fine line when it comes down to getting rid of weight because I always think I MIGHT just need that, I'll be cold if I don't take that extra jumper/ what happens if I get soaked etc.

 

[Harb505]

Aiming for light my kit weighs about 12kg base before food and drink I coluld shave a kg off that but I like a couple of luxuries. I found that I could manage more weight better when I got a bag that fitted properly rather than using a hand-me-down (Now got a Berghaus verden 65+10). I will hopefully be shaving a bit more weight off when I get a down bag and a water filter system. During my last 3 day outing my kit weighed about 20kg.

 

[Squidders]

I was going to go ultra-light but thought saving ounces of my kit weight then taking lots of mead/cider/mulled wine made a bit of a joke of it.

To go into more detail... my "must have" kit is light... but I then am selective about what luxuries I take any given time.

 

[MikeLA]

When I was young, I was pretty much poor, and I used army kit all the time because it had been issued to me, was therefore free, and did the job. To this day, I prefer a basha over a tent, so long as I have trees to tie it to. The army surplus stuff is hard-wearing. I have a berghaus gore-tex jacket but I would never wear it anywhere near a campfire - I don't even like smoking my pipe while wearing it for fear of burning a hole! So it's partly a case of what you're doing, and what you're comfortable in. Surplus stuff is heavy, but it's not bad, and it's pretty tough. That works for me. I know guys who go out encased in Gore-Tex and all manner of lightweight space-age stuff, but it's for walking in, not for campfire-bushcraft stuff. Different strokes...

Pretty much me to a tee as well.

 

[John Fenna]

In my expeditioning/backpacking days I used to try and keep it light.
Now I do not do/am physically unable to think of long treks then weight is no problem as afew short trips to the van allow me to have every base camp luxury I want ... like crafting tools, team parachute, team 1st Aid kit etc etc plus spares for the "light weight" crew who find that "travel light - freeze at night" is a trueism....
Food cooks better and tastes better out of cast iron than out of Ti anyway