Legality and Perception of EDC's
- Thread starter Tony
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Just seen two very informative You Tube videos by the Black Belt Lawyer on legal carry and replies to Police officers if you are carrying. One deals with knives, the second specifically with Leathermans/utility types.
a) You have to have a valid reason for carrying it, even if it is a legal pocket knife ~ at that moment in time when stopped/searched ~ not a general "it might come in useful." (Appeal Court has already thrown that one out).
b) Whilst the Leatherman/utility might be a tool,a) it has a locking blade which is a no no, and you must be working/doing whatever activity it is a tool for, and be able to demonstrate how it is used for your activity ~ at that moment in time.
Big C ) Never admit or recognise that it might be used or needed as a weapon, even if asked to do so ( apparently a bit of a police trick, allows them to charge you.)
E.g. "Yes sir, but you will agree/can see that some people might see that as a weapon?"
So my hoped for defence that I am in my work clothes and just popped to the bank/shops during the working day is not going to fly - I need to dump it in the van first. And my lunch in the park must include something I have, or was about to, cut up to eat. Drat!
a) You have to have a valid reason for carrying it, even if it is a legal pocket knife ~ at that moment in time when stopped/searched ~ not a general "it might come in useful." (Appeal Court has already thrown that one out).
b) Whilst the Leatherman/utility might be a tool,a) it has a locking blade which is a no no, and you must be working/doing whatever activity it is a tool for, and be able to demonstrate how it is used for your activity ~ at that moment in time.
Big C ) Never admit or recognise that it might be used or needed as a weapon, even if asked to do so ( apparently a bit of a police trick, allows them to charge you.)
E.g. "Yes sir, but you will agree/can see that some people might see that as a weapon?"
So my hoped for defence that I am in my work clothes and just popped to the bank/shops during the working day is not going to fly - I need to dump it in the van first. And my lunch in the park must include something I have, or was about to, cut up to eat. Drat!
It seems that there's been a shift then (although I could have had it wrong for years) I always thought that most knives were legal carry if there's a good reason to do so, such as work or you're engaged in a hobby or sport, thus allowing you to have a fixed blade etc, if it's reasonable.
When I've carried a non locking sub 3" normal folder i've never thought I need to have a good reason to carry because it's an allowed carry, except in places that prohibit it's carry, which is location/place specific.
This implies that all knives are treated the same, there's no real difference between points A & B...
When I've carried a non locking sub 3" normal folder i've never thought I need to have a good reason to carry because it's an allowed carry, except in places that prohibit it's carry, which is location/place specific.
This implies that all knives are treated the same, there's no real difference between points A & B...
The law is very clear regarding point 'a' though, that you do not need a reason to carry it if it's sub 3" and not locking. (Edited to add the word 'not')
I have started to treat the Black Belt barrister with the same circumspection I treat any other youtube "expert". I suspect he has an alternate agenda. I have not changed anything that I do on account of his dire ramblings.
Sub 3 inch and NON locking (sorry to be pedantic)
Where has the legislation changed that states you need a reason to carry a non locking sub 3 inch? I can't find anything on the gov website that says it can't be carried without good reason.
Who is to say that you have just eaten an apple and used it to cut it up and disposed of the apple core?
I'm a little confused now I thought that a sub 3 inch non locking blade is not only legal to carry but police can't even ask you to explain your reason for carry it's regarded as an item no different than a phone or a pencil unless there is reasonable beliefs that you have been spotted with the knife with the intent to do harm or a criminal activity.
That is exactly my interpretation of the law unless things have changed. Its classed as a tool and no valid reason is needed or can be questioned-
However as has been already said they can ask if you think it could be considered a weapon, and the answer should always be a firm no, otherwise you are admitting it could be such and this *may* lead to confiscation and/or a trip to the station
If @Falstaff can post a link to the particular video, perhaps we can see where the reason for a sub-3+non-lock knife as "just useful" was thrown out by a court of appeal. Without seeing where that comes from, and the wording, it isn't even worth speculating.
Oh the police CAN ask you why you have a sub 3 inch non locking folder, but you don't really need to give them any answer other than "it is less than 3 inches and readily foldable at all times officer".
Answering such a question with anything else gives them the opportunity to say "well you are not building model airplanes / gardening / fly tying (insert reason of choice here) now are you" and to possibly infer some more sinister reason.
As for "Black Belt Barrister" I find his videos muddled and his facts often unclear. He might know the law but he sometimes doesn't explain it well.
You are much better reading the law yourself if for no other reason than "the guy on youtube said it was legal Milord" is a pretty crap defence in court.
Answering such a question with anything else gives them the opportunity to say "well you are not building model airplanes / gardening / fly tying (insert reason of choice here) now are you" and to possibly infer some more sinister reason.
As for "Black Belt Barrister" I find his videos muddled and his facts often unclear. He might know the law but he sometimes doesn't explain it well.
You are much better reading the law yourself if for no other reason than "the guy on youtube said it was legal Milord" is a pretty crap defence in court.
I thought something similar. If the written law is different to the case law then perhaps he is right but you'd need to know the case or cases that's involved, that's effectively altered the written law as voted by Parliament and signed off by monarch.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I once read or heard in news interview opinion piece from retired senior judge talking head that laws can be changed by will of Parliament or by case law after the laws are enacted. The latter being an interpretation of legislation and past case law. As you'd expect no parliament has managed to create laws that are unambiguous so the intent gets interpreted by courts with the chance that the interpretation becomes considered significant and effectively modifies the law. Something the that anyway.
So without the case law to back up the BB lawyer's comments, as reported here by @Falstaff , it's hard to definitely take a view on them.
Apologies if I have misunderstood or mis-represented point A, my understanding is that although a perfectly legal carry, you might still have to justify it in circumstances such as going into a nightclub etc. The police catch question might be used where they might be frustrated at it being a legal carry.
In case I've got it wrong, always possible, herewith the links I saw, he's done several on these including a 2023 update. You can judge for yourself:
Leatherman:
In case I've got it wrong, always possible, herewith the links I saw, he's done several on these including a 2023 update. You can judge for yourself:
Leatherman:
May I ask:
How many of us have been stopped by any authority who questioned us concerning or took exception to a knife?
How many of us have been stopped by any authority who questioned us concerning or took exception to a knife?
Never, and I expect not many of us are prone to being "off our trolleys" in public places or hanging around with gangs of teenagers trying to buy drink at the off license or otherwise generally being a nuisance.
Although I was once searched by a particularly suspicious border guard while driving back into Germany, as soon as we had resolved his suspicions about the legality of my vehicle he was happy to hand my pocket knife back.
Police emptying your pockets is relatively rare outside situations where you are actually arrested or detained for the purposes of a search.
The law hasn’t changed, nor do you need a reason for carrying a non locking UK legal knife.
There are of course situations and locations where knives are prohibited by rules or unwise such as a nightclub.
I’m not a fan of this current belief that the police are out to fit everyone up, nor do I think giving smart or stock answers paint our community in the best light.
Friend of mine went in and out of UKL to Poland with a small swiss army on their keys no problem numerous times, then last time Polish Border controls took it off them as they were leaving Poland.
It's far more common in London, age is no protection, "SUS" rules might have gone but makes no difference.
It's far more common in London, age is no protection, "SUS" rules might have gone but makes no difference.
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