Leather for moccasins
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The traditional moccasins I have seen were made from Caribou fur, so actually with hair, this because it is a great insulator.
I wouldn't in the world know where to find this kind of fur, but perhaps someone else could answer that question for you, perhaps ring up a leather dealership such as Le prevo perhaps they even have it, or if not know where you could, or poerhaps a nice alternative, they always are very helpful, even to strange foreigners like myself ^^
Yours sincerely Ruud
I wouldn't in the world know where to find this kind of fur, but perhaps someone else could answer that question for you, perhaps ring up a leather dealership such as Le prevo perhaps they even have it, or if not know where you could, or poerhaps a nice alternative, they always are very helpful, even to strange foreigners like myself ^^
Yours sincerely Ruud
Native americans used buckskin. Easiest place to get it is to braintan a deerhide, either a roadkill or become friends with hunters!
German buckskin is, although a chemical tan pretty close to brain tan, and makes wonderful soft mocs. It is readily available here in the State, so should be more so in Europe. You did not say what type of moccasin you are going to make, the type itself makes quite a difference in what you would need. Southwest Native American mocs are soled with rawhide unlike the Eastern Woodland types that are all soft leather.
Woody
Woody
Which native Americans? Along the northeast they used moose. In the southeast they used buckskin. In the Great Plains they used Buffalo. "Native Americans" encompasses several different cultures in several different environments with multiple resources.
Buffalo shoulder would be the most durable. Buckskin the least.
I am making a pair of one pice moccasins, and I am looking for leather that can be bought somewhere for a reasonable price.
Having made moccasins and mukluks for some years, (1996), I have used all kinds of leathers, (pig, cow, horse, elk, moose, deer and caribou). I would suggest you obtain reindeer as it most closely resembles caribou and deer hide. You can use elk for the leather uppers, not the soles; it is not supple enough. Elk is/was commonly used primarily for clothing. Pig and cowhide are similar to elk. Moosehide is what I use, due to its long wear and suppleness.
If you have little experience making moccasins/mukluks; find the pattern/style you like and practice using wool blanket fabric until you become proficient. White's booklet on North American indian Footwear is a good place to start. Probably the most straight-forward pattern is the Salish side seam moccasin.
BTW: The word moccasin comes from the Abenaki, (eastern North American tribe, Quebec, Maine), 'meksin'.
Hope this helps.
J
If you have little experience making moccasins/mukluks; find the pattern/style you like and practice using wool blanket fabric until you become proficient. White's booklet on North American indian Footwear is a good place to start. Probably the most straight-forward pattern is the Salish side seam moccasin.
BTW: The word moccasin comes from the Abenaki, (eastern North American tribe, Quebec, Maine), 'meksin'.
Hope this helps.
J
This could get a bit confusing unless you remember that what we in North America call "elk" is what most Europeans and British call "Red Deer." And what they call elk is what we call moose.
Not universally so, but enough to get confusing. The curse of a "common" language.
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Hey Snowtrekker7 That is a wonderful bit of information, And Welcome to the Forum ^^ great to have you here, be sure to head over to the introduction page and introduce yourself,
I think I will have a go in the coming year as well, as I am planning for a winter snowshoeing expedition in Sweden for December 2014.
One question though I have seen many moccasins, with and without hair, what would be the preferred method? I could see how with hair on the boots might be warmer and perhaps have slower wear and tear as well, any info on this?
Yours sincerely Ruud
I think I will have a go in the coming year as well, as I am planning for a winter snowshoeing expedition in Sweden for December 2014.
One question though I have seen many moccasins, with and without hair, what would be the preferred method? I could see how with hair on the boots might be warmer and perhaps have slower wear and tear as well, any info on this?
Yours sincerely Ruud
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Ruud,
Thanks for the welcome, it is very much appreciated.
How to cover Native North American footwear without it seeming like a Wikipaedia entry?
Basically, moccasins are for late spring, summer, late fall. They are soft soled in ares where the ground is softer, Great Lakes, Eastern Woodlands, Plains some parts of the Rocky Mountains. Different tribes had different styles for women and for men. The First Nations and Metis originally used dried grasses or corn wrappings inside, (until wool socks came along), very similar to the Saami.
After the hides were softenned, they were smoked, using punky wood giving the hide its distinctive look, (and smell). The smoking was not simply a decorative feature, it preserved and water-proofed the leather. The longer it was smoked, the more water-resistant it became.
Mukluks, on the other hand, are worn during the colder, wetter periods; as they have no seems on the bottom or sides. Only on top. They can/are made from a variety of materials from fur, leather, 6-8oz canvas for the uppers. The foot part is always made from deer, moose or caribou. (See Ray Mears series on the Barrens Lands, circa 2003; when he was in Northern Quebec/Labrador with the Innu. You can find it on YouTube). Additionally, most people wear mukluks with thick wool duffle socks and or pacboot felted liners, (as well as wool felt insoles). The important thing is that your feet remain flexible, and therefore warm. I've been wearing my mukluks out in -40C with warm and dry feet for years.
What you may be referring to regarding fur-on footwear are Inuit winter mukluks, which are made from sealskin and or caribou. only the sole/foot part has no hair on. They are also knee-length and worn with wool duffle socks or booties.
I hope this answers some of your questions regarding native footwear. You may also want to check out the Bata Shoe Museum in Toronto, Ontario at www.batashoemuseum.ca they are a pretty good resource. There is also the Burke Museum in Seattle, Washington http://collections.burkemuseum.org/ethnology/browse.php?ID=582948 ; and finally the Canadian Museum of Civilization in Hull, Quebec http://www.civilization.ca/home
Happy trails
J
Thanks for the welcome, it is very much appreciated.
How to cover Native North American footwear without it seeming like a Wikipaedia entry?
Basically, moccasins are for late spring, summer, late fall. They are soft soled in ares where the ground is softer, Great Lakes, Eastern Woodlands, Plains some parts of the Rocky Mountains. Different tribes had different styles for women and for men. The First Nations and Metis originally used dried grasses or corn wrappings inside, (until wool socks came along), very similar to the Saami.
After the hides were softenned, they were smoked, using punky wood giving the hide its distinctive look, (and smell). The smoking was not simply a decorative feature, it preserved and water-proofed the leather. The longer it was smoked, the more water-resistant it became.
Mukluks, on the other hand, are worn during the colder, wetter periods; as they have no seems on the bottom or sides. Only on top. They can/are made from a variety of materials from fur, leather, 6-8oz canvas for the uppers. The foot part is always made from deer, moose or caribou. (See Ray Mears series on the Barrens Lands, circa 2003; when he was in Northern Quebec/Labrador with the Innu. You can find it on YouTube). Additionally, most people wear mukluks with thick wool duffle socks and or pacboot felted liners, (as well as wool felt insoles). The important thing is that your feet remain flexible, and therefore warm. I've been wearing my mukluks out in -40C with warm and dry feet for years.
What you may be referring to regarding fur-on footwear are Inuit winter mukluks, which are made from sealskin and or caribou. only the sole/foot part has no hair on. They are also knee-length and worn with wool duffle socks or booties.
I hope this answers some of your questions regarding native footwear. You may also want to check out the Bata Shoe Museum in Toronto, Ontario at www.batashoemuseum.ca they are a pretty good resource. There is also the Burke Museum in Seattle, Washington http://collections.burkemuseum.org/ethnology/browse.php?ID=582948 ; and finally the Canadian Museum of Civilization in Hull, Quebec http://www.civilization.ca/home
Happy trails
J
Dear J,
I really like the idea of a stitch-less sole, increasing it ability to deal with wet conditions, but fail to see how I could the upper part of the boot without stitching,
Or is is just the sole that has this "vamp" stitched in it ( which looks like one hell of a job by the way
) or is there some secret I am not aware of.
I also recollect some snow boots made by the Ivenk people, yet they were made from allot of sections, do you have any knowledge on that perhaps, and were these boots perhaps only meant for snow and not for wet conditions?
Mr. Mears also made a episode on them, let me see if I can find that ...., Found it http://youtu.be/88QosNCLbBA?t=17m14s
Yours sincerely Ruud
I really like the idea of a stitch-less sole, increasing it ability to deal with wet conditions, but fail to see how I could the upper part of the boot without stitching,
Or is is just the sole that has this "vamp" stitched in it ( which looks like one hell of a job by the way
) or is there some secret I am not aware of.I also recollect some snow boots made by the Ivenk people, yet they were made from allot of sections, do you have any knowledge on that perhaps, and were these boots perhaps only meant for snow and not for wet conditions?
Mr. Mears also made a episode on them, let me see if I can find that ...., Found it http://youtu.be/88QosNCLbBA?t=17m14s
Yours sincerely Ruud
rancid badger
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
If you can't get proper buckskin or other more authentic hide, then give European Water Buffalo a go. It's similar in appearance to buckskin, is very strong, supple and has a really nice surface grain.
It's a by product of the mozzarella cheese industry apparently.
It's a by product of the mozzarella cheese industry apparently.
Dear Ruud,
Well moccasins/mukluks are not designed to deal with wet snow conditions, (such as is found in southern Europe). They are intended for COLD, DRY snow conditions. Typically, mukluks are worn with felted wool liners and felted wool insoles, as well as 2 pairs of wool socks. How we typically handle wet snow conditions over here in North American is to wear pacboots, (Sorrel, Kamik, or Acton), or Tingley moccasin rubbers OR N.E.O.S., (New England Over Shoes).
I should also mention that there is some debate amoungst us wintertrekkers as to what the 'ideal' winter footwear system actually is. As with many aspects of bushcraft, ask five people what the best tool is and you will probably receive as many different replies.
As to the the leather available to you, I believe that if you were to do an internet search for reindeer hides, you would find a number of relatively local suppliers.
Ruud, if you want a pair of self-made footwear for a trip to Sweden, you have a couple of options; either you wait until you arrive in Sweden, and pick up a pair of Saami footwear, or you take a deep breath and throw yourself into the project of learning how to make a pair of mukluks. As I mentionned in a previous post, George White has a fairly straight forward how-to booklet, (Craft Manual of North American Indian Footwear). There is also a book 'A Snow Walker's Companion' by Garrett and Alexandra Conover. I highly recomend this book! It has patterns at the back of the book which MANY, MANY people have used to make winter outdoor clothing, (mukluks, mittens, anoraks; even tents). Fairly simple directions. You might even look up www.wintertrekking.com You will find alot of useful information there as well.
Remember, practice combined with focused intent, and a dogged determination, is the recipe for success. I am a self-taught moccasin and mukluk maker, some of my initial efforts did not bring the results I had hoped for . . . . I kept at it, and now I usually get the results I want. It takes practice, just like anything worthwhile in bushcraft.
Yes, I remember the episode with the Evenk, and the footwear which was made for him. Yes, there were alot of pieces to those boots. Most of which were for decorative purposes, very much like footwear found in western Alaska and the Canadian Arctic. The Burke Museum has a number of fine examples, as does The Museum of Civilization.
My suggestion for you is the following, find the pattern/style of footwear you want to make, practice making them using fabric, (old wool blankets is what I used, works great!), locate a source of suitable leather, then make them.
You will also need a few tools. Glovers needles or a Speedy Stitcher, artificial sinew, (basically heavily waxed polyester thread), a really good pair of scissors and loads and loads of patience. If you have all that, you will do fine.
All the best,
J
Well moccasins/mukluks are not designed to deal with wet snow conditions, (such as is found in southern Europe). They are intended for COLD, DRY snow conditions. Typically, mukluks are worn with felted wool liners and felted wool insoles, as well as 2 pairs of wool socks. How we typically handle wet snow conditions over here in North American is to wear pacboots, (Sorrel, Kamik, or Acton), or Tingley moccasin rubbers OR N.E.O.S., (New England Over Shoes).
I should also mention that there is some debate amoungst us wintertrekkers as to what the 'ideal' winter footwear system actually is. As with many aspects of bushcraft, ask five people what the best tool is and you will probably receive as many different replies.
As to the the leather available to you, I believe that if you were to do an internet search for reindeer hides, you would find a number of relatively local suppliers.
Ruud, if you want a pair of self-made footwear for a trip to Sweden, you have a couple of options; either you wait until you arrive in Sweden, and pick up a pair of Saami footwear, or you take a deep breath and throw yourself into the project of learning how to make a pair of mukluks. As I mentionned in a previous post, George White has a fairly straight forward how-to booklet, (Craft Manual of North American Indian Footwear). There is also a book 'A Snow Walker's Companion' by Garrett and Alexandra Conover. I highly recomend this book! It has patterns at the back of the book which MANY, MANY people have used to make winter outdoor clothing, (mukluks, mittens, anoraks; even tents). Fairly simple directions. You might even look up www.wintertrekking.com You will find alot of useful information there as well.
Remember, practice combined with focused intent, and a dogged determination, is the recipe for success. I am a self-taught moccasin and mukluk maker, some of my initial efforts did not bring the results I had hoped for . . . . I kept at it, and now I usually get the results I want. It takes practice, just like anything worthwhile in bushcraft.
Yes, I remember the episode with the Evenk, and the footwear which was made for him. Yes, there were alot of pieces to those boots. Most of which were for decorative purposes, very much like footwear found in western Alaska and the Canadian Arctic. The Burke Museum has a number of fine examples, as does The Museum of Civilization.
My suggestion for you is the following, find the pattern/style of footwear you want to make, practice making them using fabric, (old wool blankets is what I used, works great!), locate a source of suitable leather, then make them.
You will also need a few tools. Glovers needles or a Speedy Stitcher, artificial sinew, (basically heavily waxed polyester thread), a really good pair of scissors and loads and loads of patience. If you have all that, you will do fine.
All the best,
J
Heya J,
Bin gone from the forum, life caught up but I think Indeed when I finish my canoe building project and finish my coming canoeing expedition, I am ready to dive into a project learning to make a good quality moccasin.
I luckily have the character to chase down every little detail, in material choice, uptill stitching types directions and tension as I am a passionate student designer who would want to do nothing less then design Good, esthetically pleasing outdoor gear without it being to synthetic. You gave me some great leads and I will save these in the project box ( only 48 other projects on the list XD, but almost half of those are pretty much near completion) and when time comes round I will get my hand around the designs of moccasins and mukluks.
Thank you for your knowledge en kind spirit :You_Rock_
Yours sincerely Ruud
Bin gone from the forum, life caught up but I think Indeed when I finish my canoe building project and finish my coming canoeing expedition, I am ready to dive into a project learning to make a good quality moccasin.
I luckily have the character to chase down every little detail, in material choice, uptill stitching types directions and tension as I am a passionate student designer who would want to do nothing less then design Good, esthetically pleasing outdoor gear without it being to synthetic. You gave me some great leads and I will save these in the project box ( only 48 other projects on the list XD, but almost half of those are pretty much near completion) and when time comes round I will get my hand around the designs of moccasins and mukluks.
Thank you for your knowledge en kind spirit :You_Rock_
Yours sincerely Ruud
Hey Ruud,
Been away from the forums myself for awhile. Well, I wish you the best for your upcoming projects, I have a few of my own to complete before I head off to the deep woods of northern Canada in February. If you get stuck with your moccasin project, send me a message, and I will do what I can.
Sharing knowledge is what we do on these forums, and so you are welcome.
Enjoy your canoe project, and have fun.
J
PS: Have you looked at some other forums such as wintertrekker dot com or bushcraftusa dot com. Both have alot of great information as well.
Been away from the forums myself for awhile. Well, I wish you the best for your upcoming projects, I have a few of my own to complete before I head off to the deep woods of northern Canada in February. If you get stuck with your moccasin project, send me a message, and I will do what I can.
Sharing knowledge is what we do on these forums, and so you are welcome.
Enjoy your canoe project, and have fun.
J
PS: Have you looked at some other forums such as wintertrekker dot com or bushcraftusa dot com. Both have alot of great information as well.
Hi,
If you get in touch with the folks at the Identity Store (see link) they might be able to advise and provide speciality leathers that are suitable for your project. They are really helpful, friendly and knowledgeable (No affiliation just a very happy customer)
http://www.theidentitystore.co.uk/
Hope this helps
If you get in touch with the folks at the Identity Store (see link) they might be able to advise and provide speciality leathers that are suitable for your project. They are really helpful, friendly and knowledgeable (No affiliation just a very happy customer)
http://www.theidentitystore.co.uk/
Hope this helps
I will most certainly check those out J
And thanks for the kind words, lets hope it will be one killer canoe ^^
And that looks like a neat site Peaks
Yours sincerely Ruud
And thanks for the kind words, lets hope it will be one killer canoe ^^
And that looks like a neat site Peaks
Yours sincerely Ruud
I have a few pairs of moccasins at home here. The moose hide ones that I had didn't last very long (they were brain tanned). The deerskin ones that I have lasted for about 3 years (commercial chrome tanned). The bison hide ones (they are a chrome tanned) have lasted for six years and are still running strong.
Most days they are worn either around the house or when in the woods.
Do be aware that your soles will wear out really quickly if you use them on asphalt or concrete unless you use something to protect them. Either put a coating on them (I think the stuff I heard of was called shoegoo) or have an outsole that can be replaced.
The soles on my current moccs are triple, they have an outer sole, a mid sole (I use felt) and an inner. That may sound like they would be rather inflexible, however they are actually very flexible, you can feel everything through them, but they still provide protection from thorns and the like.
Most days they are worn either around the house or when in the woods.
Do be aware that your soles will wear out really quickly if you use them on asphalt or concrete unless you use something to protect them. Either put a coating on them (I think the stuff I heard of was called shoegoo) or have an outsole that can be replaced.
The soles on my current moccs are triple, they have an outer sole, a mid sole (I use felt) and an inner. That may sound like they would be rather inflexible, however they are actually very flexible, you can feel everything through them, but they still provide protection from thorns and the like.
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