Large Cats in Forest of Dean!!!!!!!!!

[Stuart]

Swagman, what would a Canadian trapper have to do with big cat expertise? Theres not many cats in Canada, after all.

you were making a good point up until this line, there are loads of big cats in Canada such as panthers (they call them cougars), Lynx and bobcats and they are one of the most profitable sources of furs for the trappers, which is why they know a great deal about there habits in the wild

since Canada has a fairly similar environment to the UK, a Canadian trapper would be in a good position to examine the evidence of them here

 

[twisted firestarter]

If I can obtain conclusive evidence of the cats I'll pay you £500 ! IF I can shoot a wild "big" cat in the orchard I'll pay you £1000!
John

If there are bigs cats lurking about the countryside (which I for one am convinced there are) then irresponsible comments like yours are going to discourage people from reporting them.We are not living in the colonies anymore!

 

[ady05]

Q1= why would you want to shoot a big cat here (i presume you meen with a rifle)
Q2= would the law allow you to

 

[Hunter_zero]

If there are bigs cats lurking about the countryside (which I for one am convinced there are) then irresponsible comments like yours are going to discourage people from reporting them. We are not living in the colonies anymore!

A lack of understanding and ignorance of predator control can only lead to eradication of a predatory species in the UK.

BTW I have a UFO stuck in my shed roof, fell out of the sky last night you know. Was going to report it but didn't want the poor grey chap in the UFO, being unduly autopsied! Just got to go and make him or her a cuppa.

Hope you left Santa a nice cream cake



John

 

[Hunter_zero]

Q1= why would you want to shoot a big cat here (i presume you meen with a rifle)
Q2= would the law allow you to

A1 = To prove the existence of a UK species of big cats. If it was proven, then legislation could / would have to be passed to either control or protect the species.

A2 = The cats would have no protection in law. This means, should the cats exist, then they may be killed by any means.


John

 

[twisted firestarter]

A lack of understanding and ignorance of predator control can only lead to eradication of a predatory species in the UK.
John

I will not rise to your other childish comments but regarding the big cat's - take a look at www.britishbigcats.org to start with or better still, do your own google search and see what you come up with. There were well over 2,000 sightings reported during 04/05. They also have evidence of at least 23 releases into the wild since the dangertous animals act was passed in 1976. Many of the original keepers have in fact owned up. I can't believe you refer to paying to shoot a rare wild cat as 'predator control'- it sounds more like selfish trophy hunting to me.

 

[Wayland]

I would also like to see some of the photos.

Failing that, any of the skulls or skeletons that must be fairly common would surely prove conclusive? I wonder where these all go to?

Red

Come on Red, You know all the Trolls in the forest eat the bones.......

 

[Hunter_zero]

I will not rise to your other childish comments but regarding the big cat's - take a look at www.britishbigcats.org to start with or better still, do your own google search and see what you come up with. There were well over 2,000 sightings reported during 04/05. They also have evidence of at least 23 releases into the wild since the dangertous animals act was passed in 1976. Many of the original keepers have in fact owned up. I can't believe you refer to paying to shoot a rare wild cat as 'predator control'- it sounds more like selfish trophy hunting to me.

You say "2,000 sightings" were reported in one year alone! Man that's a LOT of evidence. Yet you also _claim_ that these cats are rare. I would suggest you go and join the "free the OOMPA-LOOMPA " campaign as well.

Here are a few good links for you to also follow:

htt//lorenzen.blogspot.com/2005/08/oompa-loompa-liberation-front.html

Hope you win the next tiddly-winks championship!

You keep laughing, cheers me up no end

John

 

[British Red]

Wayland,

Aaah that could be it. I'm afraid I don't buy the caves and holes argument either - not all could do this and most caves are known and explored by potholers etc. Sadly this is a small island as we all know. Much as I would love to believe in big cats in the UK, if there were any bar perhaps one odd escapee that died alone, I suspect one body at least would have been found from any viable population


Red

 

[twisted firestarter]

I would suggest you go and join the "free the OOMPA-LOOMPA " campaign as well.
Hope you win the next tiddly-winks championship!

You keep laughing, cheers me up no end

John

I am not laughing and just want you to know that I will not engage with your childish comments.

 

[twisted firestarter]

Why don't we have a poll of BCUK members to find out what percentage think there are big cats in the UK ?

 

[British Red]

You can organise a poll if you want TF - theres an option on a new thread post.

I see this has got heated but lets all just agree to disagree huh?

There is no conclusive evidence of a breeding population of "big cats" in the UK. A lack of conclusive evidence does not mean that there are none.

This is one of those "you are free to believe whatever you like" situations and I suspect that there are all sorts of positions from "I've seen one and believe my own eyes" through "I think they do exist but can't prove it! to "I'm sceptical but willing to accept I may be wrong" through to "I think its silly to even entertain the notion"

Thats cool - everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. It isn't necessary to convince the world or get into a flame war (sorry no pun intended)

Red

 

[twisted firestarter]

Thats cool - everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. It isn't necessary to convince the world or get into a flame war (sorry no pun intended)

Red

Fair points Red. I will post a new thread after the weekend.

 

[C_Claycomb]

I see this has got heated but lets all just agree to disagree huh?

Well I agree with Red

No need to get sarcastic with one another

I would be most surprised if there were not some big cats in Britain, but all the evidence that I have seen in the media has been inconclusive. Some of it, to my eyes, looked pretty dodgy too, like it was being interpreted the way someone WANTED rather than being taken at face value.

Hunter Zero may be correct that the only evidence that will really prove to some people that a big cat existed in Britain is when one is killed, although really high quality film footage would do the same for most folk, but film would be harder to get. Of course, the chances are that one such animal wouldn't prove there were any more

As for man eaters, Bushmaster110... If you can post links to the experts concerned I would be very interested. I have read about attacks by big cats in other parts of the world and it seems to me that conditions in the UK would mitigate the chance of a big cat here going and eating people. Cat density is very low (high cat density in the US and parts of Canada is a big factor in recent attacks on people), not only do we have a lot of deer and smaller game, but we have a lot of livestock, particularly in the less urban areas where cats are reported. Big cats are reported to only go after people when territory and prey are scarce, after they have been "taught" to eat people by exposure to unburied corpses, or when they are injured and cannot catch wild food and there aren't enough sheep to go around.

Any chace Bushmaster110 could post his photo?

 

[Pete E]

I’ve been interested in this for a long time, and I confess that as a stalker, one of my ambition’s is to take a leopard the traditional way, i.e. over bait without a spot light, in Africa.

With regards the situation in this country, I am torn. If there was a big cat operating near where I lived, yes I would love to hunt it…but on the other hand, given that I think that the idea we might have big cats in the wild again is fantastic, and as the likely numbers would be so low, hunting them probably wouldn’t be sustainable, so I simply could not justify it…If the animal became a serious problem to man or farm stock that might be a different matter.

The legality of shooting such a big cat with a suitable calibre rifle would also be problematic as you would need the appropriate variation on your FAC unless you could justify “self defence”. It would probably be legal to use a shotgun, but expect in very limited circumstances, its not something I would recommend, and is likely to lead to a seriously wounded leopard and all the dangers that entails.

There is a fair chance such a cat could be caught in a large cage trap, as this in often done in Africa today when there’s a need to translocate a leopard from one area to another, or when they are needed for scientific studies.

All this assumes that there *are* big cats in the UK, and I must confess I am still sceptical about that..I have no doubt some were released at various times, but whether they could have established a viable breeding population is a different matter

 

[Pete E]

I have had a couple of sightings of such cats which might illustrate the problems with these sightings..

We had a spate of sighting near us which were reported in the local paper ect…Just after that, I was driving over to a friends one evening in the area concerned and was 100% convinced I saw the “cat” run across the lane just a head of me. I quickly pulled my vehicle into a gateway where the cat had gone and looked down the field using some bino’s…Although it was just getting dusk, the bino’s meant I had a very clear view and what looked like a very dark and very large cat, walking directly away from me at about 70 yards…From the rear, it shape and gait looked very cat like indeed…to say I was amazed and excited was an understatement…As it was rapidly approaching a hedge and would go out of sight shortly, I gave it a few rabbit squeaks to see if I could get its attention. On about the third one it paused and looked back at me giving me a clear view of its head…It was a dog! Some sort of lurcher I would guess, with one white sock on a front paw…

It was probably a stray that was in the area perhaps lost by poachers and I am convinced that it was this animal that was responsible for the rash of sightings that had been reported…In deed, if the animal had not paused and looked back I would have been quite convinced myself…

Another time, several months before the first incident, I was out lamping foxes for a farmer friend…”something” had been killing lambs and then sheep in the area and talk of a big cat started circulating.

Anyway, its a pitch black night and I was in the middle of the back of beyond in an empty field calling away when I picked up a pair of eyes in my spot light in some bracken on a bank over looking me…they were about 400 yards away…As I called, this thing responded and came in…I couldn’t see the body in the beam, just the eyes periodically as it peeped out of the bracken at me…

In a minute or two it was apparent this was no fox as the eyes were just too wide spread,…it was also clear that it was simply too big, as the eyes were near the tops of the bracken which put them about 3 or 4 feet tall!

At this point, I started getting “concerned” and stopped calling…The animal was still about 200 yards away at this point, but still it came in…it didn’t run in directly, but ran in short bursts zig zagging down the hill, pausing now and again in the bracken to watch me…

I went through all the list of likely suspects it could be from sheep, to horses, to cows, but its behavious and size didn’t fit in with any of them…At this point I could actually hear it crashing through the bracken as it got closer….Thoughts of some sort of stray dog crossed my mind, but it simiply sounded too heavy as it approached.

I was about 40 yards away from the edge of the bracken, and there was a stock fence between me and it as well.

At this point I had decided that if what ever "it" was, cleared the stock fence infront of me, it was going to get a .223Rem round for its troubles as by this stage I had gone from “concerned” to “worried” , with my rather over active imagination not helping!

Finally, the “beast” cleared the edge of the bracken and stood in the clear just the other side of the stock fence where I could see it in the beam of my spot lamp…It turns out "it" was a bl**dy dark Shetland pony the farmer had forgotten to tell me about!

It jus goes to show how important it is for people out lamping to positively identify their targets and not just shoot at “eyes” they see in the beam!!

Incidently, the lamb and sheep killers were later found to be a couple of pet Westhighland White terriors that were going AWOL from a nearby cottage overnight...It seems the owners knew something was wrong as the dogs were turning up covered in blood ect, but had refused to accept what they were doing until they were witnessed in the act. How such a small terrier could kill a full grown sheep is beyond me, but I guess if the ewes had been weak from lambing, it was possible.

Regards,

Pete

 

[bark-eater]

The thing about big cats... their not big cats their LIONS!. Ive lived out in the woods in California, and had one move into the neighborhood. Had tracks across the yard, pets disappeared, The neighbor caught it looking at her kids through the window, and one night it tried unsuccessfully to get a tethered goat down at the commune. There were some terrified hippies peaking out of there shacks and trailers. I thought it was cool and joined the neighbors in beating the brush in the boundary between "civilization" and endless timber company land. I didn't have a rifle but I figured a stick would do well against a "big kitty" the thing of it is years later I was at the Philadelphia zoo lion house at feeding time. Scared the hell out of me. Lions are big killing machines. you are a snack. If one decided that you where dinner It would be a non negotiable situation. Happy hunting... woody

 

[Hunter_zero]

The legality of shooting such a big cat with a suitable calibre rifle would also be problematic as you would need the appropriate variation on your FAC unless you could justify “self defence”. It would probably be legal to use a shotgun

You could not get a variation for it! The government _claims_ big cats do not exist and they are a fabrication of some very fairy like minded people.

A shotgun would be legal as would your stalking rifle. I can see and understand your concerns over a variation for use but just try and ask for one, you'll not have your FAC for long :yelrotflm

John

 

[Hunter_zero]

Well I agree with Red

No need to get sarcastic with one another

Hunter Zero may be correct that the only evidence that will really prove to some people that a big cat existed in Britain is when one is killed, although really high quality film footage would do the same for most folk, but film would be harder to get. Of course, the chances are that one such animal wouldn't prove there were any more

Hey it wasn't me who took the first bite :togo:

It was the other chappy

It wouldn't matter what films you had, no one would genuinely believe them to be authentic, in truth would you?

However documented footage of a live cat. Followed by a carcass for examination and autopsy would be undeniable proof.

My £1000 is raised to £2000!

Funny how there is no takers.
Put it this way, if someone offered me £2000 to document a Fallow buck and then shoot it, I'd snatch their hands off but fallow deer exist

John

 

[Pete E]

John,

Your quite right in what you say, but you can get a variation which is worded along the lines of "For the protection of humans and livestock" ...Another possibilty is that some Forces give a variation for "Pest Control" rather than for foxes ect..its been argued that both of these variations might cover the use of a rifle on a big cat...If you look at the Home Office guide lines they give the actual wording...And I agree, I would not mention "big cat" during any application either..."wild boar" or "feral goats"
upsets them enough as it is!

Regards,

Pete