Is it OK to carry a sheathed machete and sheathed knives from my house to the forest where I'm crafting? I don't go near any people, or areas with lots of people or near any shops, just through sparse residential areas from my house to the woods. Straight there, no stopping around anywhere, just a straight walk. Or do I need to hide them under my shirt? >.>
Knives/Machetes Transportation
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Not sure of the legalities but personally I prefer to stick my sharps in my pack until I'm out of the way of people, just less of a headache in case somebody goes off on one. Remembering to take them off after a trip can be hard too sometimes, I've had some funny looks walking across a petrol station forecourt with my bushy hanging off the belt.
I agree with Shewie - when I was younger I used to leave it on my belt at all times, but now it stays in my pack during transportation and only comes out once I arrive - the only exception to this is if i'm foraging along the walk-in!
i'd get an el cheapo canvas tool bag long enough to fit the 'chete in. the smaller stuff can go in there too, or just in a day sack.
never know when there's crazy old ladies vetting passers by from her armchair with her bino's for the neighbourhood watch.
your "reasonable cause" or "legal reason" is a little on the tenuous side. i know a local police officer round these parts who insists that "legal reason" or not, it'd be off down the road with you for a caution as a bare minimum.
out of sight and out of mind and all that.
cheers, and.
never know when there's crazy old ladies vetting passers by from her armchair with her bino's for the neighbourhood watch.
your "reasonable cause" or "legal reason" is a little on the tenuous side. i know a local police officer round these parts who insists that "legal reason" or not, it'd be off down the road with you for a caution as a bare minimum.
out of sight and out of mind and all that.
cheers, and.
Ditto in the pack.
When I have them in the car they are in the boot in a padlocked steel ammo box. I asked a couple of pals in the armed fuzz about this and the point they made was that if it is in a locked box it can be demonstrated that it was not readily accessible in public areas such as a car park. The same comment about being in a pack, if you are on foot walking into an area you can demonstrate that the blade in question was not readily accessible and had been placed responsibly out of harms way.
Always think worst case scenario some nutter reports you as a knife wielding maniac of our parish. The police turn up in body armour and ask
Where the sword?
What sword?
Ok, the machete then?
Errr, what machete?
The Rambo survival knife with saw backed blade?
Nope, sorry officer, fancy a brew, I have got a bushie in the bottom of the rucksack you can look at if you fancy.
So no big blade for chopping off little old ladies head or gutting passing Alsatians?
Nope, sorry mate.
Oh well, lets have that brew then, coffee with twelve sugars. Etc, etc.
Dont laugh its happened, was aked about a length of pipe just purchased at B&Q, some old dear thought it was a shot gun...
Sandsnakes
When I have them in the car they are in the boot in a padlocked steel ammo box. I asked a couple of pals in the armed fuzz about this and the point they made was that if it is in a locked box it can be demonstrated that it was not readily accessible in public areas such as a car park. The same comment about being in a pack, if you are on foot walking into an area you can demonstrate that the blade in question was not readily accessible and had been placed responsibly out of harms way.
Always think worst case scenario some nutter reports you as a knife wielding maniac of our parish. The police turn up in body armour and ask
Where the sword?
What sword?
Ok, the machete then?
Errr, what machete?
The Rambo survival knife with saw backed blade?
Nope, sorry officer, fancy a brew, I have got a bushie in the bottom of the rucksack you can look at if you fancy.
So no big blade for chopping off little old ladies head or gutting passing Alsatians?
Nope, sorry mate.
Oh well, lets have that brew then, coffee with twelve sugars. Etc, etc.
Dont laugh its happened, was aked about a length of pipe just purchased at B&Q, some old dear thought it was a shot gun...
Sandsnakes
I understand the logic of why this thread exists and fair play for wanting to stay kosher with the police, but what an indictment on our country that it is needed in the first place.
I think it's only a matter of common sense. Anything that could even be perceived as being useful as a weapon should be kept out of sight, and, equally importantly, not 'made ready' until it's actually needed. If you were walking along with a crowbar, you could be accused of going 'tooled up' for breaking and entering and it's been that way for as long as I can remember. Nobody I know makes a fuss about that, and I have no problem with bringing the law on tools which could have other uses into line.
I carry a small canvas bag like this: http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/s...ks-bags/small-canvas-shoulder-bag-259082.html
In it goes my knife, saw, selection of field guides and a fabric stuff sack for collecting tinder etc. All my other stuff goes in my daysack. I often walk quite far to where I go Bushcrafting so its good to have this stuff handy if I find some intresting plants or fungi. my knifes not on show but would be justifiable as part of my foraging kit. I live in a rural area so rarely see anyone however the knife and saw go in my daysack if I think its nessersary.
In it goes my knife, saw, selection of field guides and a fabric stuff sack for collecting tinder etc. All my other stuff goes in my daysack. I often walk quite far to where I go Bushcrafting so its good to have this stuff handy if I find some intresting plants or fungi. my knifes not on show but would be justifiable as part of my foraging kit. I live in a rural area so rarely see anyone however the knife and saw go in my daysack if I think its nessersary.
Bottom of the pack when driving or taking the train to a location, sometimes even "lock" the knife into it's sheath by securing the lanyard hole to the sheath's belt loop with a chunky cable tie (later removed with SAK. No affect in the eyes of the law, but if searched on the train the copper would hopefully realize you weren't planning to draw it in anger. On the other extreme when in Sweden / Norway, it stays on the belt unless I go into a town.
I agree with Matt.S though, it's a shame that much of our society sees a knife as a weapon rather than a tool.
I agree with Matt.S though, it's a shame that much of our society sees a knife as a weapon rather than a tool.
I keep my big sharps in a locked ammo box in my car, gone are the days (alas) when I could strap a machete and an axe onto the back of a pack frame, and jump on a bus.
I do think though in the main that people worry too much about this, the probability of being stopped and searched is a lot less than you would think.
I do think though in the main that people worry too much about this, the probability of being stopped and searched is a lot less than you would think.
If you are out for a day or two and travelling with the public then I suggest putting all your sharps at the bottom of your sleeping bag, rolling it up and strap it to the pack. That way it's obvious you aren't 'armed' since you can't get to it rapidly and chances are you are carrying other stuff to verify you are off to the wilds for some legitimate use ^^
My S.F.A. won't fit in my sleeping bag though
My S.F.A. won't fit in my sleeping bag though
Indeed, I hate the way the majority are punished for the activities of the few.
I EDC a Smith & Wesson SWAT.
But really, im not the average "inner city" youth that will shank a mate with a kitchen knife.
maybe it's different because I've lived pretty much all my life in the country, I'm very much in favour of 'open carry' .
I've carried some incarnation of multi tool daily since my mid teens, hell it was a semi regular thing for the head of form five in school to track me down and ask to borrow it while I was still at school... to me you would only conceal what you're carrying ( around here anyway) if you had intent to do wrong with it, to be hones t i don't think any sane copper around here would pull me for carrying a mora with all of the other kit I have on me if I'm off to the woods... hell i've even had the mora on my belt picking up some last minute bits and bobs from a local supermarket without a second glance. again it might just be the quirks of my little island :S i've never had any grief from anyone.
tl:dr
to me hiding it implies you're up to no good... just my opinion chaps¬!
I've carried some incarnation of multi tool daily since my mid teens, hell it was a semi regular thing for the head of form five in school to track me down and ask to borrow it while I was still at school... to me you would only conceal what you're carrying ( around here anyway) if you had intent to do wrong with it, to be hones t i don't think any sane copper around here would pull me for carrying a mora with all of the other kit I have on me if I'm off to the woods... hell i've even had the mora on my belt picking up some last minute bits and bobs from a local supermarket without a second glance. again it might just be the quirks of my little island :S i've never had any grief from anyone.
tl:dr
to me hiding it implies you're up to no good... just my opinion chaps¬!
I think there's a crucial difference between: 1) having sharps in your bag (and therefore hidden from view) which are plainly not accessible for immediate use and 2) having sharps under your jacket which plainly are accessible for immediate use. I would agree that option 2 could be construed as a concealed weapon. Most of the discussion on this thread above has been about option 1 though.
Let's not lose sight of the overriding provision that you must have a good reason for carrying, wherever the sharps are. "I'm on my way to a BushcraftUK meetup, Officer" is always going to be a better answer than "I'm just off to watch ManU play Chelsea, Officer".
However, I must confess that if I'm out in the woods for some 'schrafting and wearing a knife on my belt, i do tend to just cover it with my shirt or push it round to the back if I meet other punters. It saves worrying people....
Rat
Let's not lose sight of the overriding provision that you must have a good reason for carrying, wherever the sharps are. "I'm on my way to a BushcraftUK meetup, Officer" is always going to be a better answer than "I'm just off to watch ManU play Chelsea, Officer".
However, I must confess that if I'm out in the woods for some 'schrafting and wearing a knife on my belt, i do tend to just cover it with my shirt or push it round to the back if I meet other punters. It saves worrying people....
Rat
I sometimes travel to friends before we all head off camping. This involves a trip into London, across London Underground and out again on another train. My Mora always stays in my bag, but i'm waiting for the day that i get a police spot check - for those of you not used to travelling on the Underground, it happens more than you think. I'm hoping that the other items in my bag (sleeping bag, hammock etc) make it obvious to the police that i'm going camping and have reasonable cause for carrying, rather than make me look like Raoul Moat and gives them reasonable cause for putting 2 bullets in my head.
Dramatics aside, i'm sure most police officers would use their judgement and trained instincts, but i'd be keen to see if there are any officers on bcuk that would be able to let me know what would happen in this situation?
Ben
Dramatics aside, i'm sure most police officers would use their judgement and trained instincts, but i'd be keen to see if there are any officers on bcuk that would be able to let me know what would happen in this situation?
Ben
I agree gents, my girlfriend lives in Manchester, and whenever I'm visiting, the Surge comes out of the bag and stays in the glovebox of my car- an urban environment is a very different setting... I keep the Spydie UKPK on me but that's about it in the city...but this is just clipped in my pocket if we go out shopping or something- clip in plain sight.
I'd have thought though it would be common sense even if you did get stopped with sharps, if you had other kit of a similar nature ( hobo, and say and a hammock and tarp ect...) that the police could see that you're not out to cause trouble from what I've seen us at BCUK don't really fit the 'problematic chav' in any way shape or form- members seem to be educated and and of a very different mindset- anyone could tell this two seconds into a conversation, and I don't think anyone on here wouldn't be able to justify any sharps they might be carrying....and I'd hope that would be reflected in any stop and search that was done.
I'd have thought though it would be common sense even if you did get stopped with sharps, if you had other kit of a similar nature ( hobo, and say and a hammock and tarp ect...) that the police could see that you're not out to cause trouble from what I've seen us at BCUK don't really fit the 'problematic chav' in any way shape or form- members seem to be educated and and of a very different mindset- anyone could tell this two seconds into a conversation, and I don't think anyone on here wouldn't be able to justify any sharps they might be carrying....and I'd hope that would be reflected in any stop and search that was done.
As I mentioned earlier, stuff the sharps at the bottom of your rolled up sleeping bag. It's obvious that you can't get to them without unrolling the thing then. That's certainly what I do if I'm going on the Tube with my gear.
When on the railways you're not in a public place in the meaning of the Act, so the rules about carrying a knife in public places don't apply. You're on private property, the owner is entitled to forbid the carrying of knives on the property, and in this case I believe said owner has done so. Unfortunately I think there might be grounds for arrest by British Transport Police. Aren't they routinely screening people with metal detectors in London stations now?
I'm not sure it's that cut and dry or blanket. There are certainly many sports shops in London that sell Leatherman tools with fixed blades, some hunting shops that sell fixed blade knives (St. James St) and some Dive shops that sell Fixed Blade Diving knives. (Ocean World).
If the common sense approach to carrying a knife for a legitimate reason was abandoned totally then 99% of the folks purchasing these items and simply carrying them home could be in serious trouble. That of course includes Kitchenware and the standard example of a cook/chief carrying a roll of knives to his work and the countless workmen that carry toolboxes probably with screwdrivers, knives or even chisels in them.
If you know of a particular bylaw then I would be interested.
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I couldn't agree more. Man has always carried and used knives, both as tools and weapons. In many cultures around the worlld the public carrying of blades is part of their cultural identity.
The fact is anything can be a weapon: A shoelace, a shoe, a belt, a hairbrush, a fire extinguisher, a rolled up magazine. The legal definition of a weapon is based on the intent of the person using it.
Until we stop legislating the innocent for the misdeeds of the guilty our police officers will continue to make enemies of law abiding citizens. We seem to believe that putting weapons only in the hands of law enforcement makes us safer. On the contrary, it makes our world far more dangerous. It means that we put sole responsibility for our protection into the hands of these individuals. When they can't or won't protect us (such as in the case of Fiona Pilkington) then what recourse is left to us?
When I lived in the states there was much more emphasis placed on the responsibility of the home owner or head of the family to protect himself and his property. Law enforcement was seen as an aid to that end, but not the end itself. The ethos among Americans is that any power given to the state should also be accessible to the individual who finds himslef under that state's governance. By this priciple the people are never at the mercy of the state; rather the state must find amicable ways in which to work with the people. I'm sure the American users here will correct me if I'm wrong.
No one in Britain ever seems to question the fact that our police are routinely armed. They carry batons and pepper spray with the sole purpose of using them as weapons. You may say that these weapons are there for our protection, but who will be the judge of that? It will inevitably be the police officer who ends up using it.
Our jaundiced view of weapons in this country makes our streets less safe, and breeds a culture of fear in which the carrying of a knife creates panic, but the act of driving a car is routine (despite cars being the most commonly used weapon in the world).
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