Knives/knife law.

[Janne]

I thought you wrote you need to remember to REMOVE your blade from the pocket!
Of course, a SAK is enough in 90% of all bushcrafting needs!

Teaching your child knife handling and use is a wonderful opportunity for some bonding.
I taught my son at the same age I was , around 6 or 7, and gave him his first knife, a lockable SAK

 

[Klenchblaize]

In the past I’ve joked at the possibility of licencing as an approach to ensuring those who have need to carry knives continue to do so but without fear of wrongful arrest etc. Is this such a farfetched idea in 2018?

As an FAC holder since 1980 I’ve always considered it laughable that I could be stopped on my way to my shooting ground with rifle and ammo and encounter no problem when producing my Certificate but if the Officer so wished he could take a very different approach to the large fixed blade knife and folder that resides in the rifle case. Clearly I can demonstrate “need” but I’d rather not have to go to court to do it!

I don’t for one moment believe it will address the madlady that so clearly afflicts Society and is largely responsible for knife crime but it might provide a certain comfort for Bushcrafters.

For the record I'm not suggesting this should be a Licence to purchase and don't ask me how it would be implemented!

K

 

[Janne]

I suggested licensing on the previous thread but got bashed up...
No, not a bad idea at all.
It will only benefit law abiding, good people.

 

[Laurentius]

The chavs and the street gangs make the zombies look like agreeable company.

What would you guys carry as an edc if knife laws were relaxed? In a time when men are still mocked for carrying anything that could be labelled a 'man bag' and anything clipped to your belt makes you batman or inspector gadget would you really upgrade from a folding pocket knife? It makes me wonder if people would begrudge the current laws so much if we were just allowed our locking folders back. Even then the current culture is so knife adverse that beyond the safe red scaled SAK not much is acceptable to use in public.

Well it would be fun to carry my sword, because you know, I would not want to die and be denied a passage to Valhalla However on a practical level I wouldn't really do much different from what I do. I would like to be able to carry a locking folder on an every day basis as the law was originally intended but that is about it really, however most days of the week I do carry one because I have good reason.

 

[santaman2000]

......Education in safe handling of sharp/pointed objects was important too.
I belonged to Scouting ( you call them Brownies?)from age 6 or 7.....

"Brownies" were the girls equivalent of the Cub scouts here.

 

[santaman2000]

......it's a big leap to say they're molly coddling the kids but the litigation happy culture we live in probably has a lot to do with it. I wonder what the knife use risk assessments look like.

It's a big difference to American culture though I'll admit. I had an email today with a link to this article for the '18 best pocket knives' https://www.popularmechanics.com/home/tools/g2975/best-pocket-knives/ Most look like rubbish to me but you get the idea. Take any of those out in public over here and prepare to have a chat with a policeman. ......

Maybe not so different as you might think. First, most of those knives look like rubbish to me as well (the Buck Solo would be the only exception) Second Knife law (in Florida at least) is very similar although worded a bit differently.:
-Your law says "sub 3 inch non-locking folder" vs Florida law which says "ordinary pocketknife." (whatever that means)
-Your law makes exceptions for "reasonable excuse" vs Florida law which says "or where other knives are commonly used."

That said, we're probably more litigation oriented than y'all. The Scouts have had to have a "Carrying Chip" for bladed tools since at least the 1980s.

 

[mousey]

In UK for the boys there are beavers 6-8, cubs 8-10 scout 10-14 explorers 14-18 then 'network' I think it's called for adults.

for girls rainbows, brownies then I'm not sure, but girls are allowed in the boys catergories, not sure if the other way round is acceptable?

Beavers is mostly indoors as they are quite young, cubs was pretty much indoors until me and another guy started and we try to get them out during the summer. the same with scouts, as it's pretty cold and dark most of the time up here in the winter. Again I'm not confident enough to have them using sharp things but when in scouts they start their own fires and cook stuff on them and have a couple of camps a year, I took my hammock on the last one which gathered a bit of interest. The older scouts had their own knives [one even had a chain saw, as he's a forestry type, as part of using the site he had to clear fallen trees - good for the camp fire] the younger scouts had access to saws, axes and knifes for various projects.

 

[Janne]

"Brownies" were the girls equivalent of the Cub scouts here.

Aha! No, not that then!
I started as a Beaver Scout then.
But in those days we were camping and doing lots of outdoor stuff.

 

[daveO]

I suggested licensing on the previous thread but got bashed up...
No, not a bad idea at all.
It will only benefit law abiding, good people.

My grand idea to fix humanity is to basically licence everything. More of a continuing eductation points system really, designed to improve society as a whole where you would be awarded points for bettering yourself and your community. For example if you want to have kids then you have to complete courses at various stages of your childs life and show you know how to bring kids up properly to get awarded the points and then the points would relate to how much child benefit you would receive and stuff like that. It would be of great benefit in a lot of areas. Stuff like waste collection and recycling would be improved if people were educated about their local system. Then people would build up a level of points throughout their life and this would give a good indication of their character I would hope. The basic idea is to prevent people leaving school at 16 and getting lost in the system and never being able to broaden their horizons beyond that point. It would also help reduce the 'man in the pub told me...' knowledge that too many people rely on. You could basically reward people with more responsibilty as they gain more points and this would extend to knife carry so the law abiding good people you talk about get their freedoms back and can feel like they've earned them while learning along the way.

 

[bearbait]

My grand idea to fix humanity is to basically licence everything. More of a continuing eductation points system really, designed to improve society as a whole where you would be awarded points for bettering yourself and your community. For example if you want to have kids then you have to complete courses at various stages of your childs life and show you know how to bring kids up properly to get awarded the points and then the points would relate to how much child benefit you would receive and stuff like that. It would be of great benefit in a lot of areas. Stuff like waste collection and recycling would be improved if people were educated about their local system. Then people would build up a level of points throughout their life and this would give a good indication of their character I would hope. The basic idea is to prevent people leaving school at 16 and getting lost in the system and never being able to broaden their horizons beyond that point. It would also help reduce the 'man in the pub told me...' knowledge that too many people rely on. You could basically reward people with more responsibilty as they gain more points and this would extend to knife carry so the law abiding good people you talk about get their freedoms back and can feel like they've earned them while learning along the way.

I sincerely hope that you forgot to add the 'tongue-in-cheek' emoticon at the end of that post? ;-)

 

[Janne]

There have been ideas about a similar system, but it would only work if everybody is like a zombie. No free will.

Some forms of Communism ( Polish, Czechoslovak) tried to work along those thoughts. did not work.

I still fail to understand why a very important safety feature like a blade lock should be negative from the authorities view.

Anybody that had a folder fold over the fingers knows what I mean.

 

[Nice65]

I sincerely hope that you forgot to add the 'tongue-in-cheek' emoticon at the end of that post? ;-)

Me too!

 

[Janne]

The IDEA is not bad, if you think about it. People would try harder to do something. Be rewarded.

 

[Nice65]

The IDEA is not bad, if you think about it. People would try harder to do something. Be rewarded.

By an Orwellian government.

 

[Janne]

Yes. But what was an idea of an Orwellian government in Britain in the late 40's became the norm in large parts of the world, under different names. And it seems most governments today are inching towards that again.

The British bans on handguns, fox hunting, knife laws including this latest 'tweak' is indeed seen as quite Orwellian by citizens in many other (European) countries..

Sorry if I an nudging the "politics no-no"!

A knife license is just as ridiculous today as a motor vehicle license was ridiculous in 1900.
Or a Passport in 1913.

The German Army personell could map in incredible detail the terrain, tracks, roads and everything else in Belgium and Northern France around 1900 only because there were no passports, or border controls of people before WW1. (Schlieffen Plan as it is called today)
Only customs for goods. Free movement for everybody all across Europe.

An 'edged implement permit' would save people like us a lot of hassle!

Here on Island, both me and wife have several gun permits each. Plus permits for each ammunition (caliber) .
If we get stopped by the Police, we have to tell them we have guns in our cars, and show the permits ( plus guns if asked). No hassle, no problem!
If they discover an unlicensed gun you will have about 10 years paid vacation 'on the Queen".

Which reminds me that I need to call and check if I got the new gun permit approved, plus the 15 000 round each for 9mm and .357M/.38Spec approved....

 

[Klenchblaize]

There have been ideas about a similar system, but it would only work if everybody is like a zombie. No free will.

At my reading Society is doing a cracking job of obtaining just such status and without need for 1984-like state sponsored 'encouragement' but rather c/o sleepwalking into an addiction of the type where the Apple is anything but the Garden of Eden variety.

But then perhaps our seemingly unavoidable downfall and need for what amounts to a re-energising reality check/re-boot will be the result of the ultimate fruit referenced irony!

K

 

[Nice65]

My grand idea to fix humanity is to basically licence everything.

For example if you want to have kids then you have to complete courses at various stages of your childs life and show you know how to bring kids up properly to get awarded the points and then the points would relate to how much child benefit you would receive and stuff like that.

Then people would build up a level of points throughout their life and this would give a good indication of their character I would hope.

You could basically reward people with more responsibilty as they gain more points and this would extend to knife carry so the law abiding good people you talk about get their freedoms back.

Have you actually thought about what you wrote?

Applying for a driving licence or gun licence does NOT involve being judged and awarded points throughout your life. Who the hell is to be judge and juror in your New Society, throughout the persons life. What about job changes? Retirees? Some who have a sterner view than others? It is Orwellian, Nazist, and bloody patronising to imagine a system where a group of human beings have the control to "reward" an individual. Not to mention utterly unworkable.

 

[Fadcode]

We dont have a Government who can control anything, so your idea of utopia wont possibly work, let me give you an example why, to work with young children at the moment you have to go through certain checks, CRB, etc, and beleive it or not, the Government thinks that if you pass this check our children are safe in your hands, and obviously because of the number of offenders who have passed these checks and still abused the children prove it wrong,, look at the state of the prisons, drug ridden, and these people are actually locked up yet can still access hard drugs,is there a link here................yes its called corruption.........and until corruption is nil, you cant have an Orwellian or any kind of decent society,

In the meantime the Govt will take knee jerk reactions, to try and convince the general public they are doing something.........so people will continue to vote for them, I mean good point about the locking device on a folder, it is safer and in a sensible society it would probably be obligotary for elf and safety reasons, but not quuite PC in present times.

Regarding licences what would that prove, nothing, except revenue for HM Govt, we have the licence already, if we need a knife to carry out certain tasks , we have the right to carry a knife....as long as we are responsible.

The last thing we need to do is to give the Police more excuses to stop and search us, and to be asked for a licence they would need to already know you are carrying a knife.

 

[Janne]

We have a right to carry a knife.
Yes, now.

In -94 just before I moved to UK, I had obtained an import permit for all our handguns into UK, the said guns to be stored by police until we joined a club and could get our own permits........

12 guns, including a custom made ( by Colt) Python and my granddads WW1 and WW2 side arms were confiscated and destroyed....

With the surge in knife related crime we do not know if we will that right in a couple of years..
Remember those words, ladies and gentlemen!

 

[Janne]

We as nature lovers do not have a ‘need’ for knives.
We can spend all our time in the outdoors without one, we just have to modify our habits and ways.