Knife as a striker for firesteel?

[Improviser]

As i have mentioned before in reply to one of Mistwalkers reviews- i use a SOG seal pup elite (plain stainless finish) as my camp/field knife which has a lightly raised 'rasp' spine extending nearly to the tip, which is quoted to be used for notching as it isnt a saw edge as such ( i've sewn a loop on the side of the sheath to carry the f/steel).

When my firesteel is struck across this it throws immense sparks from it - been doing this some time now and the blade shows no pitting or damage whatsoever.

Very impressive as i was always of mind that stainless steel (aus8 in the pups case) is very inferior to a more carbon based blade for using in conjunction with a firesteel although noting spine shape & tempering no doubt play a significant part.

Just my two pence worth..

 

[Trackerman]

I have several knives that works well with firesteel, using that the back of the blade, such as BRKT North Star (A2 steel) Fällkniven F1, A2, (lam. VG10), Baul Baker Bushcrafter (O1)Enzo trapper O1 . But then I have these knives with 1095 carbon steel, they work poorly despite my effort to make a "sharp edge on the back of the blade. The ML knife and Rat Izula. I filed off some of the black coating on the Izula but I don´t get those huge sparks from it. And ML bushcrafter is one my most beautiful knife and best cutter, I hardly get any sparks. What is the problem with 1095?

 

[forestwalker]

I've -- as many others -- have "squared" the back of my knife to work better with a firesteel. In order to retain the "carving comfort" rounding I only did this to a small section (about 2 cm wide) one one side, near the handle. I used a diamond sharpener, only took a few minutes.

 

[Martyn]

I have several knives that works well with firesteel, using that the back of the blade, such as BRKT North Star (A2 steel) Fällkniven F1, A2, (lam. VG10), Baul Baker Bushcrafter (O1)Enzo trapper O1 . But then I have these knives with 1095 carbon steel, they work poorly despite my effort to make a "sharp edge on the back of the blade. The ML knife and Rat Izula. I filed off some of the black coating on the Izula but I don´t get those huge sparks from it. And ML bushcrafter is one my most beautiful knife and best cutter, I hardly get any sparks. What is the problem with 1095?

It's not the steel, 1095 is fine - it's the design of your knife and/or the heat treatment.

 

[Bushwhacker]

I had one of those magnesium blocks and to be honest thought it was poo.
I'm not a fan at all.

 

[Whittler Kev]

Why not just carry a piece of broken hacksaw blade with the firesteel? It can come in handy as a multi purpose tool

 

[Trackerman]

It's not the steel, 1095 is fine - it's the design of your knife and/or the heat treatment.

Ok. So which heat treatment is the better? `Cause it aint the design on my knives...

 

[tobes01]

It's not the steel, 1095 is fine - it's the design of your knife and/or the heat treatment.

That would make sense - am getting good results of the opinel, but the BG has been smoothed slightly on the back so no luck at all.

Tobes

 

[Martyn]

Ok. So which heat treatment is the better? `Cause it aint the design on my knives...

Honestly, the type of steel makes no difference, you can get great showers of sparks from a broken housebrick that has no steel in it at all. The important factors are a rough or sharply squared scraping edge and the striker needs to be made from something which is very hard, like hardened steel, brick, ceramic, natural flint, glass etc. - or like Hoodoo's tungsten-carbide scraper.

If your knife is not sparking on the steel, it's either because you have a poor quality firesteel, or because the spine of your knife is smoothed or rounded, or because the knife has either a soft heat treatment or a differential heat treatment.

If the knife has a rough, square spine and the firesteel is good, then it must be down to the heat treatment of the knife. It cant be anything else.

In it's annealed state, steel is actually quite soft and malleable - if you hit it with a hammer it will bend, dent and deform. Steel only becomes hard and brittle when it has been heat treated, which structurally alters the steel. Some knives are left deliberately quite soft, it makes them tougher and easier to sharpen. But because they are a bit on the soft side, they dont bite well into firesteels and so dont make good strikers.

By differential heat treatment, I mean a knife where the cutting edge has been hardened, but the back left softer. This is a complex heat treatment and generally found on custom knives and Japanese swords. It's a good heat treatment for a knife and generally considered a sign of a higher quality item. The downside is the soft spine, while good for the knife in general, can be too soft to bite into the firesteel. Knives with this kind of heat treatment dont generally make good strikers.

So, to answer your question, the best would be a knife that has been fully "through" hardened and tempered to a high Rockwell hardness (60HRC+ should be OK I would think). This isn't always desirable in a knife (it could be a bit brittle and hard to sharpen) but this is what makes a good firesteel striker.

Pretty much all knives will be tempered to a Rockwell range of between 57HRC to 62HRC (very soft to very hard). Your RAT Izula has a Rockwell of 57HRC. ML knives are beautiful things. I have no idea what Rockwell yours has been hardened to, but given the hand-forged nature of his knives, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the knife has a differential heat treatment (sometimes called an "edge quench").

 

[Hoodoo]

That would make sense - am getting good results of the opinel, but the BG has been smoothed slightly on the back so no luck at all.

Tobes

Martyn has a real nice mod for a Sebenza for striking a firesteel.

 

[Martyn]

Martyn has a real nice mod for a Sebenza for striking a firesteel.

Indeed, take one very expensive folding knife that is rubbish at striking sparks and one large belt grinder. Apply spine of knife to grinding belt until spine is square and sharp. Result = one superb firesteel striker.

 

[Ruvio]

I'll do a little technique video if you'd like?

I'm good at fire me haha

 

[tobes01]

Some of those firesteels with a high magnesium content can be a bear to get a good quantity of sparks from. To test your ferro rod, try using a carbide paint scraper. If you still can't get sparks, something is seriously wrong. Most of the time, I don't use my knife anyway, I use a carbide scraper. It is also excellent for making piles of magnesium curls that can be used for starting a fire.

WOW! Just tried one of those paint scrapers and you're not kidding are you? It's incredible! My only concern is I'm going to reduce my firesteels to clouds of sparks in a matter of minutes.

 

[VtBlackdog]

the spine of a SAK saw blade works great...

 

[superc0ntra]

Be sure the edges on the backside of your knife aren't rounded.

 

[Norton]

I always have a Gerber Multitool with me anyway when I'm out and I use the file on that instead of the back of my knife. I find it easier to hold onto than my knife and I can get a more even pressure on the firesteel. I wouldn't recommend buying a multitool just for that but if you have one give it a try.

 

[Tony]

Indeed, take one very expensive folding knife that is rubbish at striking sparks and one large belt grinder. Apply spine of knife to grinding belt until spine is square and sharp. Result = one superb firesteel striker.

I remember when you did that, lots of people were getting precious that you'd do that to a Sebenza


when it comes to making sparks i'd say it's generally worth having a good play around,i've met a few people that think they'd be lost without their knife to strike sparks, when one looks around though there's loads of things that will do the job. My fav is the back of my leatherman saw but i use whatever is handy.

When it comes to getting your fire alight then prep of the fire is just as important, even with minimal sparks you can get it going if it's prepared right, what they did in the old days with flint and steel, iron pyrites etc was amazing, they must have had a very high skill level when it came to prep and knowing how to manage their kit.

I've got some Scandinavian knives that are rubbish at making sparks because the spine is softer than the steel, they still give off a few little ones tough if you get it right (using the burr ) you can still get a fire going, or find a stone

 

[Ruvio]

just a little update, the jack pyke boot knife for about 6 quid, has a back that makes a perfect stream of hot sparks, will set msot tinder on fire i find

 

[Thijzzz]

And when you grind or file the spine square, you might create a little burr. If it doesn't bother you - leave it on. That small ridge will help even more.

 

[Ruud]

I find that how you hold the firesteel and drive the knife makes a difference... I place the thumb of my right hand (holding the knife) flat against the side of the blade, then place the thumb of my left hand (holding the firesteel) on top of my right thumb, and strike by pushing forward hard with both thumbs. Hard to describe, but it gives good results.

exactly the way I do it! good explanation this technique gives great sparks and is good to use close by the tinder. I sometimes see vid's of people spraying sparks from a mile away