Keep Those Fingers!

[Klenchblaize]

Due to what is perhaps best described as a very 'interesting' experience when attempting to purchase a Lone Wolf Loveless Drop-Point Folder via evil-bay (at least one other member will know exactly what I’m referring to), I ended up with something completely different that, frankly, I would never have otherwise considered acquiring:

So, when I field-tested a "Harsey T3 Tactical Ranger" I surprised myself by concluding it might just be the nearest thing to a bombproof and safe non custom-made folder for both bushcraft and hunting chores one can buy. Three months later and by a miracle still able to type this with all fingers, I must tell you that had I put such into print I would be seriously unimpressed with myself!

Recently I had the not-to-be recommended excitement of wrestling with a horribly injured fallow deer involved in an RTA but with plenty of life left in it. Now, lets not get into why it wasn’t simply shot, but rather retun to the scene as I attempt to plunge the above knife into the area at the base of scull where the vertabray joins. This has proved effective before and seems to be the method of choice for most highland stalkers when faced with a similar scenario and with instant and lasting results. Maybe Klench was rushing things but as I ensured the blade did it’s job; a good wiggle and turn is essential, the fleshy part of my fingers somehow moved the sprung locking fork away from the bearing point and the knife part-collapsed! I was incredibly lucky that the only thing hurt was my pride but believe me I will never use this, or any other folding knife again for anything other than the most basic and considered of chores.

Whilst I’m sure many will argue that most well-made folders will stand up to the chores they are regularly exposed and it is for the operator to exercise caution within certain limits, the reality is there will always be the tendency to push it just that little bit further.

In summery PLEASE steer clear of folders as a bushdraft knife however large and/or seemingly well constructed they may appear. It just isn’t worth losing one or more fingers!

Cheers

 

[BorderReiver]

Nasty.

As locking and fixed blades are "equal" in the eyes of the law,there is no point IMO to carry a locker when you might need to carry out the sort of task you were faced with.

Glad that you escaped injury.

 

[oetzi]

You were really lucky!!
I dont know this knife, is the big button up front the realease for the blade?

 

[Klenchblaize]

No. I would need to take a close-up picture of the lock-up detail to explain. It may have helped if it had a second safety bolt that I've seen on other folders but I'm just going to keep well away from them however good they look. It is not as if I'm short of fixed blades either!

Cheers

 

[Greg]

That was certainly a lucky escape, I have just bought a folding knife which seems strong enough to handle an aray of tasks but seeming strong and being strong are two entirely different things and you have definately sowed the seeds of doubt in my mind reference the safety of my nice new knife.

I will definately have to think long and hard about using it now!

I'm glad you escaped any serious injury!

 

[oetzi]

With every lockable folder I purchase, I do a test. Donning a very heavy leather glove, the knife will be held as usual but spine down and hacked very hard on the table several times. Good folders will withstand this procedure.

 

[Longstrider]

Good to know that you managed to come through with all your digits still attached Klenchblaize.
I have the next model down from that knife. Mine being the T2 and I can see why you bought yours. I love mine and I guess I'd trust the lock on it second only to my Buck/Strider (A complete "tank" of a knife)
I can see why and how your near miss came about though, and your experience should be held up as a warning to all. ANY folding knife has an inherrant weakness when compared to a fixed blade, be it from the weakness of the lock or the pivot. (I have, in the distant past, been known to pop both handle sides clean off a cheap knife trying to pry two slabs of wood apart by twisting with the blade of a folder) By twisting as you used the knife I'll wager your tight grip pushed a little of the flesh of your hand/fingers into the space by the liner-lock and dis-engaged it. Since first reading your post I have done a little experiment with my own knife and can see how this could have happed.
I'll keep on carrying and using my folders, but I'll use them in a manner that keeps the pressure on the blade coming from the edge to the spine. They are NOT tools that should be expected to cope with thrust-and-twist type usage.

 

[Klenchblaize]

They are NOT tools that should be expected to cope with thrust-and-twist type usage.

Since posting this warning I have studied the knife (note how thumb release protrudes above the line of the finger groove scales) far more closely. As a result I have been compelled to contact Lone Wolf Knives and let them have my views. I actually feel duty-bound to do this such is my beleif that the knife is flawed in the one area that matters most.

I note your comment above but please consider how this knife is marketed. I quote:

“The Harsey Tactical Ranger was designed to be the ultimate extreme-use field knife for utility or big-game hunting chores. Designed by custom knife maker and artist William Harsey of Creswell Oregon the knife is very large, rugged, good looking and comfortable in the hand. The frame and locking liner are built from stainless steel making this big knife extremely tough and corrosion resistant. The Combat version of this knife is called the Tactical-Folder and Rangers, Seals and Special Forces personnel have tested it. The Ranger is built to the same specifications with only the false edge removed from the combat blade to provide a more useful utility and hunting blade style. Those who have tested this product have described it as the best large folding hunting knife they have ever seen. Mr. Harsey has put all his years of experience into this knife and ………”

Hardly an advert that suggests this knife is of limited real-world use nor that thrust & twist is out of the question.

I doubt I will use this knife again nor would I sell it on even accompanied by a copy of my warning.

Cheers

 

[bambodoggy]

“The Harsey Tactical Ranger was designed to be the ultimate extreme-use field knife for utility or big-game hunting chores. Designed by custom knife maker and artist William Harsey of Creswell Oregon the knife is very large, rugged, good looking and comfortable in the hand. The frame and locking liner are built from stainless steel making this big knife extremely tough and corrosion resistant. The Combat version of this knife is called the Tactical-Folder and Rangers, Seals and Special Forces personnel have tested it. The Ranger is built to the same specifications with only the false edge removed from the combat blade to provide a more useful utility and hunting blade style. Those who have tested this product have described it as the best large folding hunting knife they have ever seen. Mr. Harsey has put all his years of experience into this knife and ………”

Hardly an advert that suggests this knife is of limited real-world use nor that thrust & twist is out of the question.

I would say that it's exactly that sort of macho "combat" type marketing rubbish that would have put me off buying the knife in the first place. There's not a lot of call for dispatching deer in military life so what the heck would they know?

I'm glad your fingers are ok and it's great that you've re-highlighted what many of us already know i.e. not to totally trust a folder of any sort but I think the best lesson you can take from this is not to belive the hype on these knives as it is...after all....just sales hype

All the best,

Bam.

 

[Snufkin]

I've posted my thoughts on folders and lock knives before.
Glad you kept your fingers, and managed to dispatch the poor deer.
Fixed blade knives: lighter, stronger, cheaper, safer.

 

[Klenchblaize]

I would say that it's exactly that sort of macho "combat" type marketing rubbish that would have put me off buying the knife in the first place. There's not a lot of call for dispatching deer in military life so what the heck would they know?

I'm glad your fingers are ok and it's great that you've re-highlighted what many of us already know i.e. not to totally trust a folder of any sort but I think the best lesson you can take from this is not to belive the hype on these knives as it is...after all....just sales hype

All the best,

Bam.

Here is some more "marketing" info as mentioned in the context of the Field & Stream award:

"LONE WOLF KNIVES HARSEY TACTICAL RANGER FOLDER Folding knives occupy less space than fixed-blade models and are safer to carry. But many lack the size and heft to do outdoor jobs well. Not this one: Designer Bill Harsey’s knife can do just about anything a sheath knife will. The Tactical Ranger Folder is one of those rare designs that is just about impossible to improve upon. Its handle is a marvel of ergonomics, made of glass-filled nylon with titanium liners. The 4.8-inch drop-point blade is formed out of a high-carbon stainless steel that, unlike most stainless steels, sharpens very easily. The hinge is huge; the blade is held open by a standard liner lock."

Clearly I disagree with at least one of the observations!

Cheers

 

[Hoodoo]

Liner locks are my least favorite and the last I would trust for stabbing. The only liner lock knives I use regularly are on slip joints like SAKs, Queen, and Old Timers. I stopped buying larger liner lock folders years ago, simply because I'm fond of my fingers. Framelocks are a step up because your grip tends to reinforce the lock while it can actually disengage a liner lock. In general, though, I prefer a lockback or preferably, the Benchmade axislock.

Problems with liner locks have been known for years. This is the main reason some liner lock knives come with an additional safety lock to lock the blade.

If you have a truly strong locking blade, I would not be too concerned about the lock failing. At that point, the weakest part of the folder becomes the hinge point, which can fail during prying. As a result, nothing is as strong as a fixed blade and of course, strength varies among those as well.

If you know the limitations of the knife design, then it's up to the user to use the knife appropriately. I have been using slip joint knives to carve for over 40 years and never had one close on my fingers although no doubt when used improperly, they can do it quite easily. I trust slip joints more than liner locks because liner locks can give you a false sense of security by seeming so strong. However, they can fail in the blink of an eye just as you've experienced.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Everything you guys say appears to makes sense but my thrust (no pun intended) and directed at Lone Wolf/Harsey, is their insistence on the type of use they envisage such a folder being put. Maybe things have changed since too much of my youthful and forces-conditioned muscle turned to fat but I would have thought even the US “Special Forces” would have need to engage in the occasional “stabbing”! The same would apply in the context of their stated use as a “field knife for big-game hunting chores”, as one might reasonably assume they too ‘bleed’ their deer.

I’m not optimistic but I do hope Lone Wolf Knives can take this piece of failed kit (as far as I’m concerned) off my hands and perhaps even replace it with a nice fixed blade of my choice. They may also like to consider upgrading the piece to include, on future manufacturing runs, “an additional safety lock to lock the blade” as I do consider this a significant omission as such can be found on the cheapest of folders.

We shall see.

Cheers

 

[Hoodoo]

Well, Lone Wolf is not the first knife company to exaggerate (hype) a wee bit. I don't even read knife advertisements any more nor do I take at face value any review or promotion of a knife where there is a vested economic interest. Nor do I put much faith in Internet knife reviews because some of them are done by people who haven't begun shaving yet or the closest they get to the outdoors is the Discovery channel..

The knife world is a business world. I can accept that. And as a knife lover, I want to see it stay a healthy business. But I view knife advertisements just like I view toothpaste advertisments.

Back in the late 90s there was an ongoing discussion of liner locks over at Bladeforums. If you do a search over there, you will find more info than you can possibly imagine on this topic. Try searching on the "spine whack test."

 

[Klenchblaize]

Back in the late 90s there was an ongoing discussion of liner locks over at Bladeforums. If you do a search over there, you will find more info than you can possibly imagine on this topic. Try searching on the "spine whack test."

I'll take your word on this Hoodoo and assume they have their failings as I have now discovered. It does though seem a pity that the knife designer wasn’t more attuned to this as in all other regards the knife is one hell of a piece of kit – something I’m happy to acknowledge. Sadly though one cannot use such kit, and of any quality, without fingers!

Cheers

 

[Nautilus21]

Hi KB

Nothing to do with the use of a folder and I dont know how much experience you have with RTA so I dont mean to offend - but anyone reading this should be aware that there are very explicit guidelines and legalities when dealing with RTA Deer or indeed Humane Dispatch of Animals.. Unless you know what you are doing it is best to call the police and let them arrange for a 'competent person' to deal with it even though it is extremely distresssing to see anything suffer

In essence the recommended 'dispatch' when using a knife is that it has a blade of not less than 5inches and you should cut the animals throat as rapid blood loss will lead to quick unconciousnees and death.. Have a look here if you want more info.. http://www.basc.org.uk/media/rta_draft.pdf ..

I know of someone who did exactly what you did, helping out following an RTA and was then threatened with prosecution for causing unnecessary cruelty.. but then I guess that is the kind of world we are living in ..

As I say KB you may well be very experienced and this isnt meant as a criticism rather a 'warning' for anyone else who thinks it may be easy to find the Atlas joint and use this as a method of dispatch.