Ka-bar

[dogwood]

Just because the military (any military) issue something, it doesn't mean it's any good.
two words.
Lowest. Bidder.

The lowest bidder argument doesn't always hold from the design perspective -- it's true for manufacturing, but not design.

The Kabar Marine knife has been made by other manufacturers for the Marines over the years, however the design hasn't changed much.

And that design is not precisely for woodcraft -- it's more of a general use war knife. And that category has complicated demands: it might be userd to dig and as a hammer and to cut brush and as a spear and can be used to cut metal sheeting (batoned), pry things, cut wire and, yes to cut and kill etc, etc, etc. It's a general purpose tool for people who are doing one of the most complicated and unpredictable jobs in the world: military service.

The design has been optimized over decades and that design nothing to do with lowest bidder.

The Kabar is a warrior's field knife and frankly it is nearly perfect in that role -- only the kukri and the Kizlyar DV2 come close in my mind. Of the three, I think the kukri is *far* superior in this category because it has even more general purpose uses. But be that as it may a Kabar is nearly perfect as a warrior's knife.

I would not, however, dream of using it as bushcraft knife. If I needed a big blade to go with my puukko, it would be my leuku or kukri because I can do so much more with them (use as a drawknife, etc.) Nor can I imagine dressing game with a Kabar.

But I think it's a mistake to understate the mystique, the tradition and the sheer capability of the Kabar Marine knife. It is a significant part of history. On both sides of the Atlantic we owe a lot to that knife and the people who carried it.

So if you want to get one, by all means do so. Anyone interested in sharp things should have a Kabar around somewhere. You'll have Big History on your belt. But don't be surprised if, after taking it afield a couple of times, you wind up taking a Mora with you instead.

Sorry for going on so long! I just feel the Kabar deserves love, even if I wouldn't take it into the field.

Oh and if you want a knife like the Mountain Men carried, consider an Old Hickory Butcher knife -- it costs about $9US and is very close to the Hudson Bay knife in overall dimensions. Or you can get a newly forged Hudson Bay Knife from www.mlknives.com!

 

[Minotaur]

The lowest bidder argument doesn't always hold from the design perspective -- it's true for manufacturing, but not design.

I tend to agree, the design has been around for at least 150 plus years, and is regarded by the 'experts' as one of the two best fighting knifes.

I would also argue against the lowest bidder manufacturing point, the same company have been making them since about 1925, and they have been used by the Marines since 1942ish.

Also regarding the lowest bidder manufacturing point, if the stuff is so rubbish why do Army, and Navy stores exist? You can get kit that is good condition, from World War 1, let alone the fact that we still use stuff from WW2 plus. 58 webbing is basically bomb proof kit, that is going to survive almost anything.

If the choice is one knife to do it all, I would have to go for the Ka Bar. It might not do some of the jobs well, but it will do them. If I get to carry more than one, or can remove the need for defense, it loses to knifes like the Mora, which is the work knife design that has been around for a long time, at least since Medieval times.

 

[Graham_S]

If I get to carry more than one, or can remove the need for defense,

Quite frankly I don't take a knife into the woods "for defense" I take it as a tool to manipulate my environment.
It's a well designed fighting knife, all well and good, and granted, anything with an edge from a flake of rock to the finest crafted custom blade will do many of the jobs required in the woods, but the KaBar isn't even in the top 10 list of blades I would carry.
It has a place in any collection as a piece of history, but as a bushcraft blade? no thank you

At least that's my opinion. You're welcome to your own

After all
"A mans opinion is like his dog. I should be allowed to admire it without being required to take it home with me."

 

[Minotaur]

Quite frankly I don't take a knife into the woods "for defense" I take it as a tool to manipulate my environment.

Me either. That was sort of my point, take out that need from the list, and it does not strike me as a good choice. Give me the ability to carry two edges, and it does not make the list either.

It's a well designed fighting knife, all well and good, and granted, anything with an edge from a flake of rock to the finest crafted custom blade will do many of the jobs required in the woods, but the KaBar isn't even in the top 10 list of blades I would carry.

It is easily in my top ten list of single carry knives.

"A jack of all trades is a master of none!"

Thinking about it, it would be my first choice for a Survival knife. Which is a knife that needs to cover a lot of areas, but these sort of knives will never be first choice for just one area.

It has a place in any collection as a piece of history, but as a bushcraft blade? no thank you

Agree, as a Bushcraft blade it would not make my list either, but in Bushcrafting we all carry at least three edges. I do not use my Mora, to do the same jobs as my axe, or Billhook.

After all
"A mans opinion is like his dog. I should be allowed to admire it without being required to take it home with me."

Like that quote

 

[320]

davey569, if you want to use a kabar you should use it.

they were hunting knives before they were navy utility knives and that was before they were
marine utility knives and that was before they were dread usmc fighting knives.

i've used them or some derivative since i was ten years old.

they are a nice big knife that will do just about anything you can think to do with a knife.

if it turns out that it wasn't the perfect blade for you, you'll get to experience the agony and ecstacy of another choice.

all this stuff is supposed to be fun.

have fun!

 

[Hoodoo]

davey569, if you want to use a kabar you should use it.
all this stuff is supposed to be fun.

have fun!

 

[Sickboy]

I'm with the above on this one, not one of us HAVE to do this, we do it for fun (or fun and money for some) so the tools we choose just have to please us and get the job done to our own satisfaction.
Sure we could be better of with a Mora or even an Opinel no? but then i like trying different types of knives, it's just another part of the whole bushcraft thing for me.
Have been through a couple of Ka-bars and they have all been great quality, though i've not got round to the usmc yet, maybe next time .
Buy one and if you don't get on with it after a few trys flip it and try something else

 

[crazydave]

dont bother with the ka bar unless you get one silly cheap, get a muela mirage if you like bowie style knives as the steel is much better and spanish so scandanavian quality without the price tag as they are a highly regarded maker of chefs knives. .

they come in at under 30 quid with a good leather sheath and are widely available in the uk.

I've had one for 10 years plus as a camp craft knife prying pallets, splitting logs, making tent pegs, snare triggers, skinning and prepping game, chopping veg and so on. a few dents where a scout took a hammer to it but its as good as the day I got it.

and they come sharp

 

[FerlasDave]

get a muela mirage if you like bowie style knives

muelas look like good knives but the grip looks like that of a fallkniven A1 (spelling?) which is quite squarish, is it not uncomfortable to hold for long periods?

 

[Hoodoo]

Here's a couple pics you can use to compare the Kabar to a Roselli leuku.

 

[sam_acw]

Nice photos as ever Hoodoo. Have you reground that Leuku? I've never seen one with the same width bevel all the way along. They are usually a different angle at the tip so it is stronger for piercing.

 

[crazydave]

muelas look like good knives but the grip looks like that of a fallkniven A1 (spelling?) which is quite squarish, is it not uncomfortable to hold for long periods?

they have a subtle kink in them which makes then surprisingly comfy and firm in the hand. these guys make gear for chefs so I imagine they are a fussy customer base. I had another delivered yesterday from an ebay sale and the new one is just as sturdy as the old one which is still going strong. spent an hour splitting an old 6 foot lump of 4x2 down to chiminea sized pieces and a lump of 6 inch ash down to size

 

[Hoodoo]

Nice photos as ever Hoodoo. Have you reground that Leuku? I've never seen one with the same width bevel all the way along. They are usually a different angle at the tip so it is stronger for piercing.

That's as she comes.

 

[Stainz]

I found my Dad's old USN-marked KaBar, his friend from the S. Pacific in WWII, in my grandmother's closet back in the early sixties. The copper rivets in the sheath had turned green - and the blade had this blackish 'corrosion' I tried to remove, only to find later that it was a Parkerized coating. While in - and later out - of the USN myself, I carried that KaBar camping. I simply didn't know better. Eventually, it would be accompanied by pocket knives, usually, a SAK. I used the KaBar for gross whittling, tent stakes, firewood/kindling, and even clearing brush. While it was horribly inefficient at cleaning small fish - it sufficed there, too. I was not 'enlightened' as to what constituted a good knife for such use. I dropped it on my shop's concrete floor years ago, snapping the pommel and tang end off - it remained in pieces for years in a drawer.

I eventually modded it with a few new leather washers and a new monel pommel on it's now shortened tang, making it a user again. I added a $30 sale-priced USMC marked new KaBar, as well as a pair of similarly priced commemoratives. The old and new are quite similar - it was KaBar's answer to a wartime bid request for a utility knife that would be easily reproduced without using needed wartime materials, thus the Parkerized 1095 steel and leather grips. Below is the old one, a recent USMC version (Note it's sharpened recurve - the originals weren't 'as delivered', although often 'modded' in the field.), and a Bark River Boone for comparison. My B R Fox River is a better 'bushy' knife than the Boone, of course... but only after my 'enlightenmet'.

So, if you haven't been spoiled by what a proper 'bushcraft' knife is, aka 'enlightenment', a KaBar might just get you through some camping experiences. Of course, I'm getting old - and a Buck 110 folder is good woods company for me these days. Still, I have a nostalgic KaBar...

Stainz

 

[michiel]

Lovely Bocote handle on that Boone. Nice Choice. If you like the full height convex on the Fox River, you should try the Manitou.

Best regards,

Michiel

 

[rg598]

The KaBar is a great knife. If you want to use it for bushcraft, you should consider removing the guard though. I also find the tip a bit too sharp for me, as it will tear through your batton.

I must say it upfront however, I don't like small blades. It's fine if you are carrying an axe, saw, etc, but I find that all those tools stay in may pack, which I leave at the camp site, and end up walking about with just what I have on my belt. For that reason I want my main knife to be an all around knife, even if not great at any one thing. If I have decided to do any serious carving on my trip, all bring my Mora 106 and keep it with my other tools.

For that reason I find the KaBar a good knife. If I was to use it for my main knife however, I would have to do some modifications.

 

[Oblio13]

... they were hunting knives before they were navy utility knives and that was before they were
marine utility knives and that was before they were dread usmc fighting knives....

It was specifically designed as a fighting knife for the Marines at the tail end of 1942, and was issued beginning in 1943.

 

[rg598]

The version made for the Marines was a design based on hunting knives that had been around for a long time. I'm sure there are people out there who know much more about the history than I do.

 

[wanderingblade]

another thing i forgot to ask,
anyone know where i can buy one in the UK? preferebly in the birmingham area, or on any trustworthy UK websites?

Theres a beat up old Camillus USMC knife on the bay at the moment going very cheap - better than the Ka-Bar

 

[gunslinger]

Ka Bar is a knife manufacturer/importer and their range covers much more than the USMC fighting knife. I own a Ka Bar cutlass which is a cross between a khukri and a small machete. It cost me £30 delivered.The quality is excellent and it seems to hold a good edge forever despite being used for slicing,chopping and roughing out wood,clearing etc.

What I am trying to say is that there is more to Ka Bar than the fighting knife and they are damn good.
GS