Just asking

[Pattree]

Hello,
Just musing projects on a wet afternoon.

I’m messing around with an Opinel #12 and I’ve had a brain fart.

So what would you blade makers charge for a bushcraft type blade:

- No tang at all. It would be a folder and I’ll be making my own handle.

- Just sub 76mm. (Length not cutting edge.)

- 3mm steel.
Not interested in anything super hard but whatever you’ve got. Preferably stainless but not worried.

- simplest grind you do so I can swipe it with a sharpening puck day to day.

The important bit is that the position and dimensions of the point of articulation will need to be accurate to within 0.15mm.
I won’t bother with figures as this is only an enquiry.
I don’t intend to be a time waster and I’m not expecting anyone to spend much time on this enquiry - just a ball park figure.

If you have been, thanks for taking an interest

 

[MrEd]

You mean in the style of a TBS boar?

 

[Pattree]

Dunno! I know nothing about knives except how to use them.
I’m very familiar with the Opinel folding knives and I’m happy making different sorts of handles for them.
The blades of my 12’s are 2.3mm thick and I was musing about a heavier weight blade and pin in a #12 Viroblock mounted on my own handle.

I’m not very worried about exact shape of the blade and I don’t really need a point. A stubby convex curve would be fine even if it curved right up 90 degrees to the spine.

All this is for later if I choose and if I can afford to take it further. I can draw out the rough overall shape and include detailed dimensions of the pivot if I order one.

 

[Pattree]

TBS Boar?
That sort of blade size, straight spine, Less point and a MUCH larger handle.

 

[Stew]

I just measured the thickness of a piece of paper. 0.11mm. I think that level of accuracy asked for might be a challenge. You will probably be better to ask for it slightly oversized and you can sand it to final fit.

 

[Pattree]

That’s right @70gsm.

Problem is that the mass produced Opinel blade is very accurate.
A 0.1mm variation in the “shoulder” is nearly a fifteen degree turn on the Viroblock.
Accuracy in thickness isn’t critical within +/- 0.25mm but I don’t think 3mm steel stock is an issue.

OK so let’s say I’d do my own work on the pivot and drill it myself if it were just roughed out.

Again this is just a feasibility assessment before this project joins the queue for 2025. I’m not asking for anyone’s time on this, just a guideline.

 

[Buckshot]

I would suggest giving it a go yourself.
I have made knives using some stock 01 tool steel from Amazon in 2mm and 4mm thickness.
Cut out and shaped with a grinder and sander.
I heat treated the 2mm steel myself in the back garden using a wet/ dry vacum and a charcoal fire.
Because the 4mm blade was bigger i sent it to Stew to heat treat.
Both work well and cost very little

 

[Pattree]

That was my next step of I couldn’t afford to commission a blade.

I have access to a lump of 316 surgical steel. I don’t need any of the ultra hard steels. I’m perfectly happy sharpening more often.

It will get a simple double bevel “grind” using a file and will do the work that I ask of it.

What is “wet/dry vacuum?
How is it done?

 

[Stew]

 

[Buckshot]

That's a good idea, use a donor blade

 

[Buckshot]

A wet/ dry vacuum is one that can also suck up water as well as normal dust etc.
Most are able to switch to blow rather than suck and i used it in that fashion to get the fire hot enough for the heat treating.

 

[Pattree]

Thanks @Stew . I enjoyed the video but he doesn’t quite understand Opinel mechanics.
I don’t have a collection of blades as such, just a handful of perfectly adequate Opinels. I’ll buy stock steel rather than a 3mm donor knife.
As the video says - I’d be doing it for fun. Also I work my knives and I’d hate the loose blade. If the blade drops out when unlocked it might even make the knife illegal.
The video shows very clearly the problems associated with the dimensions around the pivot. Again, thanks for posting it.

@Buckshot Thanks. That’s ingenious! I see what you mean though I’ll probably be using MAPP gas if I heat treat at all.

Let’s see what the coming months bring.

 

[C_Claycomb]

That was my next step of I couldn’t afford to commission a blade.

I have access to a lump of 316 surgical steel. I don’t need any of the ultra hard steels.

What do you think you would use the 316 steel for? That stuff can only be hardened by deforming it, not by heat and quench, it is not any sort of blade steel. It work hardens on sawing and drilling, it won't be fun to make, and won't repay the work.

 

[Stew]

Thanks @Stew . I enjoyed the video but he doesn’t quite understand Opinel mechanics.
I don’t have a collection of blades as such, just a handful of perfectly adequate Opinels. I’ll buy stock steel rather than a 3mm donor knife.
As the video says - I’d be doing it for fun. Also I work my knives and I’d hate the loose blade. If the blade drops out when unlocked it might even make the knife illegal.
The video shows very clearly the problems associated with the dimensions around the pivot. Again, thanks for posting it.

@Buckshot Thanks. That’s ingenious! I see what you mean though I’ll probably be using MAPP gas if I heat treat at all.

Let’s see what the coming months bring.

It shows you a route that you could take though.

A tenner for the mora (or probably some more these days)

Stainless from a maker will be pricey. I would think HillBill would be better to guide it but I would think it would be upwards of £50-£60 at least (if you’re lucky).

 

[Pattree]

Thanks . That’s the information I was looking for. Just a ball park figure.
I enjoy life as an adequist - if it will do then it will do.

If I get round to this project and if I use the 316 steel I’ll let you know how I get on.

Thanks everyone for information and encouragement.

 

[Silverclaws2]

Hello,
Just musing projects on a wet afternoon.

I’m messing around with an Opinel #12 and I’ve had a brain fart.

So what would you blade makers charge for a bushcraft type blade:

- No tang at all. It would be a folder and I’ll be making my own handle.

- Just sub 76mm. (Length not cutting edge.)

- 3mm steel.
Not interested in anything super hard but whatever you’ve got. Preferably stainless but not worried.

- simplest grind you do so I can swipe it with a sharpening puck day to day.

The important bit is that the position and dimensions of the point of articulation will need to be accurate to within 0.15mm.
I won’t bother with figures as this is only an enquiry.
I don’t intend to be a time waster and I’m not expecting anyone to spend much time on this enquiry - just a ball park figure.

If you have been, thanks for taking an interest

View attachment 93352

Have you seen the friction folding ' tailed ' so called ' peasant knives ', there's folk of whom have already re-imagined that design with bushcraft ideas in mind.

 

[Pattree]

I like the Viroblock and have got used to (offset) turning the Opinel style tapering bolster. It’s my knife comfort zone

 

[Keith_Beef]

I really like Opinels, I must have a dozen of them in various sizes, including the saws.

I modified my first Opinel by filing a notch in the virobloc so that it would keep the blade folded in the handle (it had a nasty habit of opening in my pocket, and I quickly got tired of the tip finding its way under my finger nail).

About ten years later I bought myself another Opinel and saw that the manufacturer had incorporated my design improvement.

The traditional Nontron knives have a very similar mechanism but made of brass and without the bulge that the Opinel has in order to keep the moving part on the head of the rivet. The Nontron has a flange on the fixed part.

Nontron No. 30 Turning Ferrule, Boxwood, clog shape NN30 couteau de poche

Nontron No. 30 Turning Ferrule, Boxwood, clog shape NN30 couteau de poche: null

www.knivesandtools.fr

 

[Pattree]

Yes indeed, I like this lock on the Nontron and might one day ask someone to do something like it in stainless steel for me. I only have a toy wood lathe.

My problem with brass is that, with heavy use, the back “shoulder” of the steel blade will make an impression on the brass collar. As mentioned elsewhere a 0.15mm depression will increase the turn on the lock by anything between 15 and 20 degrees.

The eventual project line for my Opinel variants is:

1. Plywood prototype handle incorporating standard #12 stainless steel blade and Viroblock.

2. Ebonised oak handle to replace the above if it works.

3. My own (or purchased) blade with Viroblock or home made lock in a handle that may or may not be of the type above. I may have learned something new or been inspired along the way.

Of course before I get round to all this I may well have contributed briefly to global warming and be blowing in the Shropshire breeze.

Opinel altered the Viroblock to lock the blade closed in the year 2000 when they introduced stainless steel and changed the handle to expose the nail nick.

My first Opinel is a #9 from 1986. The closed blade is completely enclosed. It has never dropped open even though I know that this is not everyone’s experience. I got used to the “Coup des Savoyards”, tapping the knife on my boot to release the blade.

My experiments above shall bury the blade as deeply as is practical.

Edited:
To correct the corrections corrected by the autocorrect.

Edited again to add:
@Keith_Beef
Have you ever swapped the handles between your #12 knife and your #12 saw? The resulting saw isn’t pretty and it needs an extended slot but it works.
The knife however is cracking. It looks good and gives you a great grip. I have a smashed finger and it helps me hang on when the knife is working hard.

 

[Keith_Beef]

Have you ever swapped the handles between your #12 knife and your #12 saw? The resulting saw isn’t pretty and it needs an extended slot but it works.
The knife however is cracking. It looks good and gives you a great grip. I have a smashed finger and it helps me hang on when the knife is working hard.

I have an older saw, from the days when it was made with the same handle as the N°12 knife, and also at least one (probably two) with the more recent style handle. I've not tried changing these.

A while ago I posted about a modified Opinel.