Jungle Trek - help and advice?

[Beer Monster]

Ok looking for a little advice and help in planning a trip to climb mountain in tropical Africa. This is a return trip i.e. I’ve attempted the hill once before but had to abort the walk on the second day due to weather (heavy rain and lightning), limited time and poor kit choice (it was a last minute decision and our kit was more suited to vehicle based camping - i.e bulky and heavy).

I’ve been sat here thinking what I would change next time and thought maybe I could pick the brains of the experienced jungle trekkers on the forum for advice/tips. I saw a thread a while back for a tropical kit list but can’t seem to find it now that I need it ?

Ok so the brief:-

It’s a tropical mountain – walking up sustained steep slopes (real thigh burners but no ropes required) up to a sort of plateau.
Relatively good going but ground quite rocky with sometimes dense undergrowth (lots of thorny/slashing plants) requiring scrambling/sliding and ducking under low bushes.
Densely forested on the slopes (pretty much rainforest) but moorland/low scrub/cycads on top.
Heavy rain a possibility but should hopefully be dry (depending on season, although mountain can attract rain all year round).
No designated “tracks” just elephant paths and game trails to follow and a bit of trail blazing.
Hot (30oC+-) at the bottom but “coolish” (think British summers day! Maybe 15oC+) and possibly a bit windy on top i.e. very sweaty on the way up but near the summit fleeces required at night/when static.
A large number of streams all the way up and on the summit so water collection not a problem – purification needed
No leeches but some ticks and the possibility of mosquitoes near the base of the hill, plenty of other undesirables on the slopes (some very large spiders, ants and centipedes! )
Will have 2 guides from the nearest village and 1 armed guard (for the wildlife) – they look after themselves kit wise be we will cook for them (they help carry food/cooking kit).
2 people traveling (myself + 1)
Trek for 3 days minimum with a different camping location each night (2 nights on the slope and 1 on the summit, down in one day ...... in theory)
All cooking done on open fire/embers using the 3 stone method, communal cooking and share amongst the guys.

What would be your “dream” kit list for such a trip? Any specific items you would recommend? Anybody done something similar (sort of like a lower altitude Mount Kinabalu) …… what did you carry? My main issue at the moment is what to sleep under as hammock is suitable on the slopes (for the first 2 nights) but unsuitable on the top where as a tent is unpractical and/or uncomfortable (but can be used at a push) on the slopes but would be more suitable on the summit (1 night)?!?

My thoughts:-

Something to carry stuff in – keep it as small as possible, low slung an advantage to avoid hang up on branches (very irritating/strength sapping last time!)
Something to waterproof the above – dry bags to keep kit separated and dry
Something to sleep under – on the slope a hammock would be ideal but on the summit plateau trees a suitable distance apart are lacking. A compromise?
Something to sleep in – jungle sleeping bag of some description or poncho liner? (anyone with experience of both? Which would you choose?)
Something to carry water in – just for drinking during the day (maybe platypus/camelbak type?) as we will be camped near-ish streams in the evening
Something to cook with – suitable light weight pans, stove not required
Something to eat off – lightweight bowls, cups and sporks
Something to cut with – machete/panga, another shorter fixed blade (stainless steel) and a folder
Something to purify – good enough for 2 people (we didn't purify last time - big no no and don't want to risk it again) – puritabs?
Clothing

• this time go for the dry clothes/wet clothes routine – if it rains this time?!?!
• maybe a poncho as a waterproof (could also be slung up to provide dry admin area) - our guides carry golf umbarellas ..... a good idea in retrospect!
• maybe also use sealskinz socks as part of dry clothes so only need 1 pair of shoes/boots
• used Merrell Moad Ventilators last time, did ok but might use higher leg boots next time
• Fleece for the summit

FAK – plenty of nicks and dings from thorns and various bugs, plus possible blisters (as feet always wet during day)
Basic Wash kit – streams and pools to wash in, foot powder
Mossie repellent & malaria pills - not bad enough for head net (didn't get a single mosquito bite last time)
Sharpening stone
Para-cord and bungees
Small survival kit
Head Torch x2 (1 in use & 1 spare)
Fire lighting kit – matches (waterproofed), lighter and firesteel plus tinder of some sort (inner tube?)
Sat phone (already have this one)
Compass (although no maps for the area) - emergency use
Small camera

Have I forgotten anything? Anything you would get rid of or add?
If any one has any more specific questions about terrain or environment please feel free to fire away.

Cheers

 

[bear knights]

jungle trek yes, mountain climb no. I doubt I'll be able to tell you anything different to what you already know from going the last time, but I have just spent some time with some very knowledgeable guys from 'footsteps of discovery' survival school http://www.footstepsofdiscovery.co.uk/, and they knew all manner of info relating to water purifying, shelter, best choice of song for funerals etc. Smarty was the main guy leading the weekend so might be worth PM him.
Sounds a wicked trip though so have fun!

 

[Limaed]

Hi Beermonster
Ive done a couple of treks in Nepal going from the low jungle up to the high mountains, the following bits of kit are good I think:
Travel trousers with zip off legs to turn them into shorts- for hot days or alternatively in leech country/bashing undergrowth (Mountain Hardware).
Trekking boots- more ankle support, keeps the bugs out, not Gore-tex though as very sweaty and slow to dry (Scarpa/Mendl) Sandals for basecamp
Umbrella as mentioned- maybe a lightweight waterproof for higher up
Water puriferier- MSR waterworks good, fits onto bottle so no bugs get in
Bandana- loads of uses
Sun hat
Trekking poles are good for long hard days up hill at altitude.
I quite like tents though I see why you would use a hammock, what about a bivi bag for the top?
Ive not used a poncho liner so cant comment, on my trips I use a fleece liner which is about the same weight as a one season fleece
Im not keen on Camelbaks/Platypuss: folk have a bad habit of putting thier rucksack on the floor and letting the mouth piece trail in the mud- a sure way to get ill, also seen a few split .
I dont think they last long if you put boiling water in where as no probs with a regular bottle, maybe im just old fashioned!
Hope this helps have a good trip.

 

[BOD]

Beer Monster,

It seems like a good list and lots of thought by you has gone into it but you may have got too much kit already unless you are one of those super fit Tarzans.

You are on holiday and want to succeed so why not leave the firemaking, cooking and trail blazing to the locals?

I second Limaed's advice not to carry water bladders in that terrain. They may work fine but when they fail they fail badly. At least have a canteen as back up.

One of the most tiring things is being jerked back or hung up when your pack catches something and it seems you face that type of terrain. A low profile pack neither too high or wider than your hips is good. Kifaru have some good but so expensive packs that seem to work fine. I know three people who have not complained about their Kifarus. Some climbing packs may fit the bill. I had a Karrimor "Hot Rock" in the 80's which was quite snug and narrow though a tad high

Wet /dry is definately the way to go. Gaiters or puttees would be useful if you are wearing shorts

I am interested in how you do as I am hoping to go in May June to the Usun Apau, a plateau in central Borneo, which has jungle at the bottom and sides and low montane forest on top. It has twin 250m waterfalls plunging over the edge.

I suspect that I am past it physically but my boss wants to try too and his beer gut is bigger than mine so its a matter of pride.

Can't wait for your post and photos. Good luck

 

[hanzo]

If you take a walking stick and some tent pegs, you only need one tree for your hammock.

 

[Jodie]

Are you going to enter the competition to try and get funding from the RGS / BBC?
I'd love it if someone from here won - you get £4,000 and make a radio prog
about your trip if you win:
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=20331

 

[Marts]

Treat your clothing with Pemethrin before you go

 

[Beer Monster]

Thanks for the advice so far guys. Much appreciated.

Ive done a couple of treks in Nepal going from the low jungle up to the high mountains, the following bits of kit are good I think:
Travel trousers with zip off legs to turn them into shorts- for hot days or alternatively in leech country/bashing undergrowth (Mountain Hardware).
Trekking boots- more ankle support, keeps the bugs out, not Gore-tex though as very sweaty and slow to dry (Scarpa/Mendl) Sandals for basecamp
Umbrella as mentioned- maybe a lightweight waterproof for higher up
Water puriferier- MSR waterworks good, fits onto bottle so no bugs get in
Bandana- loads of uses
Sun hat
Trekking poles are good for long hard days up hill at altitude.
I quite like tents though I see why you would use a hammock, what about a bivi bag for the top?
Ive not used a poncho liner so cant comment, on my trips I use a fleece liner which is about the same weight as a one season fleece
Im not keen on Camelbaks/Platypuss: folk have a bad habit of putting thier rucksack on the floor and letting the mouth piece trail in the mud- a sure way to get ill, also seen a few split .
I dont think they last long if you put boiling water in where as no probs with a regular bottle, maybe im just old fashioned!
Hope this helps have a good trip.

Many thanks Limaed.
Yup I have the zip off travel trousers already, very good they are too but don't think shorts will be used on this trip (too many stinging plants). Boots wise I have a pair of Meindl desert boots that I think may fit the bill. High leg, non-gortex and dry quickly. Or maybe I should stick to a full leather boot (might be a bit hot though)?
I think I'll go for a lightweight umbrella and cheap poncho combo. Poncho has 2 uses so I'd rather that than a jacket, it has to be cheap as I'm sure to eventually trash it pushing through thorns etc (and then it'll leak ).
I'll check out the MSR waterworks.
Used my Tilly hat last time but will also take a bandana this time (save my baldy swede from being scratched!).
We'll cut our own walking poles from the local vegetation on the summit, did this last time and it save my knees on the descent!
I've been having a look at those "mosquito/expedition hammocks" as they look as though they could also be used on the ground as a bug proof tent with minimal fuss (side entry unlike the Hennessy).
I've done a bit of research and I think that the poncho liner is too bulky. Snugpak Jungle/travel bag looks like it may fit the bill but will look into a fleece liner.
Water bottle wise I think it's probably better to be safe than sorry so the good old army 1lt bottles will be the way forward.

It seems like a good list and lots of thought by you has gone into it but you may have got too much kit already unless you are one of those super fit Tarzans.

You are on holiday and want to succeed so why not leave the firemaking, cooking and trail blazing to the locals?

Not quite a super fit Tarzan ........ yet ! You're right about the too much kit. I need to cut it down. I'd love to leave the firemaking, cooking and trail blazing to the locals, however, experience from last time suggests that we'll have to assist them.

On the last attempt they weren't expecting the rain so the matches they were carrying got wet and unfortunately they seem to have lost the art of creating fire by friction (something I hope to remedy next time!). We neglected to bring a lighter with us (left it in the Landie) but luckily I had my firesteel with me and managed to get some dry tinder (cotton wool from the FAK and punk wood) lit which in turn lit some rubber straps the guys cut off their sandals (the usual African type, made from car tyres). Interestingly they tack extra strips of rubber on their sandals specifically for this purpose! I've got some great photos of this taking place (they were fascinated by the fire steel!) ..... they're on my home computer will try and get them posted over the weekend.

Cooking wise the deal is that we supply the food and utensils and they help carry it and cook it (we also have to supply rucksacks to carry it in), we will only be carrying our own sleeping kit/clothes etc. We eat dried fruit and nuts, dried spinach, onions, mushrooms and biltong with the bulk of the meal made up of pocho (the local stiff corn porridge type food), all quite light but unfortunately quite bulky (as food should be !). They guys cook the pocho but it requires quite a sizable pan (sits in and takes up the bottom of a 65 ltr rucksack!) and a large wooden spoon to make. We make the stew to go with it and of course the ubiquitous hot sweet chai!

Truth be told there isn't much trail blazing to be done as we mostly stick to the elephant paths, however, there are times where you have to push your way through some enormous stinging nettles and I mean enormous ..... 6ft long + and thorn bushes. They guys all carry short swords/knifes which are quite effective but they only cut a trail to their body size and as I'm about twice the size of them it made sense for me to carry some sort of cutting tool so that, where necessary, I could "enlarge" the path they made ........ sounds strange but it made sense at the time! More often than not the path is elephant shaped so I should be ok .

One of the most tiring things is being jerked back or hung up when your pack catches something and it seems you face that type of terrain. A low profile pack neither too high or wider than your hips is good. Kifaru have some good but so expensive packs that seem to work fine. I know three people who have not complained about their Kifarus. Some climbing packs may fit the bill. I had a Karrimor "Hot Rock" in the 80's which was quite snug and narrow though a tad high.

It was this pack snagging that really irritated me and, as you said, when you're knackered it really take it out of you. On the last trip we had a Karrimor Delta 25 which was the ideal shape but a bit small. I also have a Sabre 30 but its in DPM .... a bit of a no no. I'll have a look at the Kifaru packs as they seem ideal ...... if a bit expensive. Funnily enough the name Kifaru is swahili (the local language) for Rhino .... hence they company symbol.

Wet /dry is definately the way to go. Gaiters or puttees would be useful if you are wearing shorts

Don't think I'll be wearing shorts (too many nettles) but I do have a short pair of canvas gaitors to stop burrs getting on my socks so may take them along as back up.

I am interested in how you do as I am hoping to go in May June to the Usun Apau, a plateau in central Borneo, which has jungle at the bottom and sides and low montane forest on top. It has twin 250m waterfalls plunging over the edge.

I suspect that I am past it physically but my boss wants to try too and his beer gut is bigger than mine so its a matter of pride.

Can't wait for your post and photos. Good luck

I suspect that you'll be posting photos before me! I only just got back from my last trip and won't be back until October at the earliest. Usun Apau sounds great. All I'll say is try not to rush up it. If people say it will take 2 days to get to the top I say take 3 or 4. I found myself plodding away head down not really taking in all the sights and sounds as we were so focused on the summit (and knackered as we were pushing to get up it) I didn't appreciate what I was walking through. It was only looking back at the photos SWMBO took that I realized what I'd "missed". Slowly slowly is the way forward and that way you're never "past it" !

I think I’ll go about getting all the kit together before I go, lay it all out, do a “what was I thinking!?!” cull and then try and find a pack to fit it all in that is of a suitable shape ……. pick it up and feel the weight and then do another cull!

Will treat my clothes with premthrin Marts.

Jodie, not sure this is a trip of a life time more of a start to a series of mini-expeditions for me and my good lady who was born and brought up in the country so I’d feel that I would be cheating someone of their trip of a life time if I ended up winning. We only spent £40 in total (mostly pay for the guides) on the last trip so £4000 seems a bit of an over kill for our purpose.

Cheers again for all the advice. Keep it coming.

 

[Limaed]

Hi Beermonster
Just though of some more kit: All purpose soap and alchol gel.
The soap can be used to wash anything, body, clothes even fruit. My main reason for getting it is handwash and then using the gel to finish the job. The forces are really heavy on this when they go abroad and it is an effective routine.
Your bandana makes a good flannel too! Ta

 

[BOD]

Beer Monster,

Something came to mind after the second can of Blue Marlin this evening that may be useful for you.

Its something I learnt from Stuart and Woody. A pair of short thin lycra undies is really great for eliminating once and for all the problem of crotch chafe. My pair are mid thigh and I swear by them.

I combined this with a thin wicky type tight T shirt ( I know I am beginning to sound like a Village People type person but its better than those marines and their pantyhose) and climbed to about 3000m on Mt. Kinabalu in just this, long socks and sturdy walking shoes. It Prevented or reduced the overheating and sweating and the exertion of walking uphill kept me warm till I hit the freezing fog when I put on a thin shell to keep warm if a bit damp. I think it really helped with reducing dehydration.

The thorns may prevent you from wearing just this but I’ve also found it useful under BDUs. It worked in the desert of West Australia and the jungles of Borneo.

As part of the wet-dry routine I found it easy to wash in them (not that I am shy) and then just wear them around the campfire while they dry (keeps me cool) and then slip in to the dry clothes just before I dive into the hammock. This way I reduce the likelihood of making the dry clothes damp.

I don’t wear them on day trips but do so for overnighters and longer trips.

Might not be your cup of tea but works for me.

 

[Mikey P]

Its something I learnt from Stuart and Woody. A pair of short thin lycra undies is really great for eliminating once and for all the problem of crotch chafe. My pair are mid thigh and I swear by them.

Most definitely! This is a top jungle tip - usually recommended during military survival courses. It should be compulsory - try and get the wicking ones used for running/workouts. Underarmour also do the tight wicking lycra t-shirts too - I have found that these also help prevent chafing. It's kind of like wearing a thin sock inside a thick sock to stop blisters on your feet.

I have to say, my reasoning for using the lycra shorts was also to stop those little fish....

....you know the ones...

...the ones that swim up your......ahem...you know....and they have to cut them out during surgey....oooooo....

Irrational, I know. In fact, I feel a little ill just thinking about it.

 

[BOD]

...
I have to say, my reasoning for using the lycra shorts was also to stop those little fish....

....you know the ones...

...the ones that swim up your......ahem...you know....and they have to cut them out during surgey....oooooo....

Irrational, I know. In fact, I feel a little ill just thinking about it.

Never been to the Americas but according to Redmond O'Hanlon this is a myth, the candiru are found in any of the orifices of dead people and not just in the (is this word PC on this forum??).

Maybe its one of those things to scare greenhorns with. I don't know.

Still there are other creatures like the fresh water turtle that might mistake it for a worm :aargh4:

 

[Beer Monster]

Cheers guys. Great advice. However, now trying to get rid of the mental image of BOD walking up Mt. Kinabalu in nothing but a pair of lycra undies, lycra vest and sturdy walking boots !

Will the smelly helly base layers (I already have) be as effective or should I still go for the thinner underarmour/gym type stuff?

Cheers Limaed. Very good advice. I've seen people using the alcohol gel before but it just turned the drit on their hands to a thin layer (of presumable sterile) mud! Makes sense to wash your hands first !