It's a wee bit cold around the hairy bag!

[thebeatmeister]

To all
My girlfriend and i are fell/mountain walkers for the best part (although we are hoping to get slightly closer to nature in the near future and start adopting some slightly more archaic methods of bushcraft/survival). I have, however, always taken a serious stance on our survival in the mountains/wilderness although my 'real time' experience is diminuative. My thoughts have often ambled over the chances of us getting caught on mountains in bad weather and all the other morbidities that that may involve. I have MANY theoretical methods of survival but have (thank god) never had to implicate them. I like to carry a poncho in the winter with para cord but in the summer months i generally tend to travel light relying on my extra clothes and a foil survival blanket. Truth is i would like to hearfom anybody out there who has had extensive mountain survival training or, better still, who has actually had to deal ith this situation whether voluntarily undertaken or spat on by lady luck.......
I'm interested in your experiences, your kit, your advice, your opinions and even your mishaps...and also,for the sake of victory of unorthodoxy over mainstream, the slightly antwacky!!
We walk mainly in the highlands of scotland and wales the peaks of which can mostly be rocky and barren with bracken/heather coverage....
thanks
Andy

 

[Sniper]

Sorry can't speak from experience of mountain top survival but more from a good few years of wandering over hills and the more remote parts of Scotland which sadly I am no longer able to do, anyway I'm rambling. They were'nt about in my day but these bothy bags look to be exactly what I reckon you should be carrying, instant shelter from the elements although not for camping in, they appear to be just the ticket in an emergency halfway up a mountain. Coupled with survival blanket and decent sleeping bag it would ensure survival for some time till you can either walk down or help can arrive. Just my opinion.

 

[welshwhit]

Have to admit, I used to work as an outdoor instructor and still am actively involved in the outdoors and I agree with sniper about the bothy bags.

I have a 4 man one, that way me and my climbing partner had somewhere to sleep stretched out, but i still carry it now, cracking emergency shelter.

Blizzard bags are also awesome, and i know of folk who have used them as a lightweight sleeping system for shortish, but extreme lightweight expeds!, and at the size of a vhs tape, your laughing!

The other thing thats got me, or more accurately my hands out of the cold is my pound land reusable hand warmers! Chuck em in your sleeping bag before bed and your all toatsy, boil with your morning brew and they're ready for the next night!

The trick is, not to be forced into a survival situation by the weight of all the survival equipment your carrying!!


A well though out kit is worth its weight in gold! because when you need it you'll want to be practised and know it works!


Hope that helps some!

Drew

 

[Dougster]

A friend fell into the stream when starting the Ring Of Steall behind Ben Nevis one year. There were three of us and he insisted on carrying on - when the cold slush fell from the heavens, we were in some screaming wind and he started to go a funny blue, we got the bothy bag up and got him sorted with a brew. He got the smile back on his face in ten minutes.

They are awesome kit, the friend who carried it is no longer with us, the one who benefitted has one in his bag in the Alps most days I'm told.

 

[smoggy]

I would tent to agree that a survival blanket is not enough should the weather take a turn for the worse.........

Even during our summer months, the weather can become quite severe at even the slightest of altituteds and you do right to ponder on the possibility of getting caught out!

a water/windproof covering that one can crawl into.......possibly with a sleeping bag.
Some sort of orange material to be visible from a distance (orange stands out better in open areas than yellow, and could be any other piece of equipment or clothing)
I presume you have a whistle and a torch.

What ever else you add will depend on how far and how long your walk will be.
I'm fairly sure that the mountain rescue volunteers that I know would be well happy if everyone walking on fells, hills and mountains carried at least the above!

Also, depending on where you are walking, consider what type of additional shelter you may be able to gain from the local terrain if needs be........rock outcrop/drystone wall/bracken/heather/bushes/snow......yes SNOW!!!

Hope that's helpfull.

Smoggy.

 

[Chris G]

Interesting thread. I'd never heard of a bothy bag until a few minutes ago!

 

[EdS]

bothy bags are very good - the MRT use them a lot. They even work well in a cave.

They are worth the little extra weight they take up.

 

[thebeatmeister]

Chris G..neither have I!!....I'll definately have to start looking into this bothy bag thing. I knew it would be a good idea coming on this site...
Thats a generous plethora of replies thanks everyone.
Dougster. We stay alot in glen nevis (its our favourite haunt) and have walked up to (and beyond) steall falls many times. I've never heard of the 'Ring of Steall,'..what is that? Does it involve the scary cable bridge that i can't seem to get my girlfriend to cross?? Is it a walk circuit?
Anyway guys..anymore experiences..keep 'em coming...

 

[welshwhit]

Yeah the 'Ring of Steall' goes up the spur past the falls the other side of the 'scary cable bridge' [ I have a great pic of a friend hanging off for dear life on that thing! one of those, should I help or record for prosperity moments! ]

You go up the spur and follow the ridge around, Awesome, but not one for a really windy day!

Smoggy mentions something orange you can crawl into, and it reminded me that down the backrest of all my mountain/bushcraft sacs I have one of those cheap but lifesaving plastic orange bivi bags! Defiantly worth the few grams it weighs!

Oh and a mars bar! can be left in your sac for ages, and will keep you going for a surprising length of time!

Drew

 

[lamper]

BOTHY BAGS RULE!!!!

Used to Play in them with the Scouts, no I dont go walking without it. Great to get out of the wind or shower for lunch or just sit it out if you get caught off guard.

Beatmeister - I have only been caught out on the mountains once (well a few times, but once properly). We were on top of Great Gable (Lake District - UK) - sat down for lunch with clear skys in front of us and five minutes later cloud came in from behind and with it, 2 hours of lashing rain!

We packed up quick, found a trig point marker and sat in the bothy until the rain stopped, if you're very careful you can make tea in one of these, but you need to VARY carfeul of the heat.

Terra Nova Bothy - Mines a Outdoor Designs

OutdoorDesigns one packs down very small

Kit I never go walking without - more for hikers than bushcraft

• Map/Compass
• Fire Steel / Few cotton buds
• 2 Space blankets
• Bothy Tent
• 4 x Power Bar (of some alternative)
• First Aid Kit
• Brew Kit (Tea bags, sugar, UHT)
• Army Issue Hexamine Stove / Few hexi cubes
• Penknife
• Headtorch
• Whistle
• 20m Paracord
• Pack of Card (speeds up the waiting)

Seems a lot, but very sensible stuff. I'm used to taking my Scouts hiking so I carry "in case of kit" for more than one person, but you get the idea.

 

[Satyr]

I carry a blizzard bag - really light and packs down to nearly nothing

 

[EdS]

hard to get an injured person in a blizzard bag - then get them out form 1st aid, plus you can not use a blizzard bag for a brew stop.

That said I have and often carry both, but always take a bothy bag:

a Kisu:

http://www.outdoorstore.co.uk/products/bothy%20bags.asp

 

[thebeatmeister]

These bothy bags look like handy bits of kit actually. I get BATTERED by mozzies and midges on lunch breaks in the summer..and yes i've tried just about all there is out there including nets, 100% deet formulas, vit B tablets, flamethrowers........
Answer's simple..chuck myself in a bothy bag.

 

[Nice65]

Is the yellow one pictured above in Lampers post a 2 man one? It's a bit like sitting in a big carrier bag by the look of it. Clever stuff, I've never heard of them before.

 

[thebeatmeister]

haha at nice65..I think i'll get a huge Aldi logo out on the side of mine...

 

[lamper]

Is the yellow one pictured above in Lampers post a 2 man one? It's a bit like sitting in a big carrier bag by the look of it. Clever stuff, I've never heard of them before.

Yeah, that looks like the teranova 2 man.

I have have 4-6 and 8-12 man bothy. The 4-6 compresses to a sphere about 5 inches diameter, the 8-12 goes down to about 7inch diameter. Both weight under 150g.

 

[He' s left the building]

Bothy bags are good for short periods but don't retain heat and don't keep out driven rain for long (I have spent nights out in UK mountains inside bothy bags, both planned and unplanned).

In my experience, the minimum that will keep you comfortable high on a mountain overnight is a zipped bivi-bag, ground mat/pad and three-season sleeping bag (even in summer).

Ponchos and space blankets are of very limited use high in mountainous terrain, you'd be far better off carrying a spare insulation layer, quality waterproof clothing, plastic survival bag and a small mat/pad to keep yourself off the ground.

 

[lamper]

True mate, but bivis are heavy compared to bothys and for a walker who needs someone to wait it out or a stop, I'd go bothy all the way.

If you are going for a bit of wild camping though, I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[Sleepy Weasel]

Bothy Bags, Kisu's, call them what you want but as part of the Mountain Rescue we use them a lot, ideal for just giving the casualty a break from the wind and rain we get as normal weather here in North Wales. We carry 3-4 man size ones that are team issue kit but a lot of the lads, myself included carry our own personal 2 man ones, just in case. It never ceases to amaze me how warm they can be with several people inside them.
Also affords some privacy to medics and casualty.

I was on a course recently and our exercise casualty was quickly covered up with a kisu to keep the rain off him. I was standing off working on the grid reference for the site, so I didn't see the casualty. Then I went forward to help position a vacuum matress for the casualty. Imagine my suprise when the kisu was thrown back to expose a young lad, with heavy stubble, a cervical collar on and a full length, floaty, flowery summer dress on. Apparently the scenario was a stag weekend of mountain biking gone horribly wrong.

How horribly wrong is transvestite mountain biking?


Kisu's are a bit noisy in high winds tho'

 

[He' s left the building]

I think it's important to recognise that bothy bags are group/leader equipment and blizzard/survival/bivi-bags are individual equipments (ie one person carries a bothy-bag and everyone else carries their own gear).

During unplanned (ie emergency) overnighters up a mountain, the trivial things make all the difference: ie bivi-bags with zips are warmer and more rain-proof than bivi-bags with open tops, lightweight waterproofs are less rain-proof than three-layer goretex suits, salopettes are warmer and more weathertight than trousers, etc.

'Never make decisions on equipment from the comfort of your living room' so my advice is to get out there for an overnighter and test your gear choices before you 'go live'!