Is a psk really needed in the UK?

[hanzo]

My "PSK" has come in handy quite a bit. I don't call it that. Just stuff I find useful and carry with me. Use my knife quite a bit. Also have a smaller Victorinox Executive on my with a AAA flashlight. The small blade and scissors get a lot of use. Occasionally the tweezers. The flashlight on occasion. The lighter and cordage has saved three kids' birthday parties so far. Don't know why parents plan for a piñata and don't bring cordage or birthday candles for a cake and no lighter.

 

[TeeDee]

I don't think PSK is now what is being discussed in the direction the OP intended. It seems to now have drifted into semantics of what EDC is and how that can become a PSK.

 

[Laurentius]

my hospital bag now also has a bivvi bag, emergency blanket, small sim, chocolate, water, a dragon stove, fuel, lighter, mug, brew kit, and a small cheap tarp plus cordage and 4 lightweight pegs.

My hospital is fortunately only half an hours walk away, a torch however is essential as I have been turfed out in the middle of the night a few times now.

 

[forrestdweller]

i haven't read all 7pages, so with the risk of repeating what others said before me :

imho yes, but it depends what's in it... lots of folks have the misconception that survival situations happen only in remote wilderness and are long-term. (i found myself in one 4years ago 500m from the panamerican highway in nicaragua fighting off armed bandits...)
you can die in 3minutes from lack of oxygen or blood and in 3hours from exposure, which is both very possible in the U.K., so that's what you should cover before thinking of going fishing or setting snares (which is fun to practise where allowed)

 

[Scottieoutdoors]

@forrestdweller
Case specific though no?
When I was in Vietnam and Cambodia, 2 of the friendliest places I've ever been, I still kept my wits about me, kept my head on a swivel and made sure I had something legal but uncomfortable for whoever would have the misfortune to be on the receiving end.
But being bound by the laws, I couldn't carry a proper knife, also backpacking meant travelling appropriately.

 

[forrestdweller]

@forrestdweller
Case specific though no?
When I was in Vietnam and Cambodia, 2 of the friendliest places I've ever been, I still kept my wits about me, kept my head on a swivel and made sure I had something legal but uncomfortable for whoever would have the misfortune to be on the receiving end.
But being bound by the laws, I couldn't carry a proper knife, also backpacking meant travelling appropriately.

i had no problems in vietnam, china, south korea and japan, either
BUT nicaragua is sadly a bit different (which may have to do with their political situation): several negative incidents with triggerhappy police and soldiers (both of limited education) within a few hundred meters of crossing the border...
i have to be fair, though and point out that after the robbery (when having to give statements in Rivas at police and court) they treated me decent and the bandit leader was known to them already...

 

[neoaliphant]

I don't think PSK is now what is being discussed in the direction the OP intended. It seems to now have drifted into semantics of what EDC is and how that can become a PSK.

I was about to say the same thing
most people nowadays are carrying EDC, as i it not sealed, varies by person, sometimes just modern where if anything goes wrong, throw more money at, like buying cofee/extras/uber , or usefull backups/contigency like above birthday candles, that can also be used for survival ( like various peoples poncho, lighter, knife, torch etc), i have the latter when im out working for the day, and the former when its a 10 minute drive to shops and back grocery run....

but the main thread topic, a PSK TIN, thats altoids/tobacco/other tin, thats sealed, and includes E&E items like wire saw, wire, fishing etc as per loftys tin, this is primarily a military you kits gone after a bailout of plane ( without bergen), escaped being held captive , or travelling and plane crashed, all situations when you dont really have any other kit with you. so a PSK tin is sealed, inspected but not dipped in to, if its dipped in to on semi regular, then its EDC. if its backup to whats on body/backpack then its EDC ( usually, not sure about this point), if its keeping small things together in one place then its EDC, if its just n case usefull stuff when out then its EDC.....

So some people could use a PSK tin for EDC, but its not a good formfactor, its not what its designed for. Its fun when your 10 and getting started, its a fun excersise. i thnk for pilots, military, canoers, especially in foreign countries wit loads wildernes ( americas, australia) its far more relevant, but the TIN doesnt seem warranted for most people,

 

[TeeDee]

I was about to say the same thing
most people nowadays are carrying EDC, as i it not sealed, varies by person, sometimes just modern where if anything goes wrong, throw more money at, like buying cofee/extras/uber , or usefull backups/contigency like above birthday candles, that can also be used for survival ( like various peoples poncho, lighter, knife, torch etc), i have the latter when im out working for the day, and the former when its a 10 minute drive to shops and back grocery run....

but the main thread topic, a PSK TIN, thats altoids/tobacco/other tin, thats sealed, and includes E&E items like wire saw, wire, fishing etc as per loftys tin, this is primarily a military you kits gone after a bailout of plane ( without bergen), escaped being held captive , or travelling and plane crashed, all situations when you dont really have any other kit with you. so a PSK tin is sealed, inspected but not dipped in to, if its dipped in to on semi regular, then its EDC. if its backup to whats on body/backpack then its EDC ( usually, not sure about this point), if its keeping small things together in one place then its EDC, if its just n case usefull stuff when out then its EDC.....

So some people could use a PSK tin for EDC, but its not a good formfactor, its not what its designed for. Its fun when your 10 and getting started, its a fun excersise. i thnk for pilots, military, canoers, especially in foreign countries wit loads wildernes ( americas, australia) its far more relevant, but the TIN doesnt seem warranted for most people,

I know it was me ( that cur down the apple tree... ) that first mentioned tobacco tins as the UK source code for survival kit but on a personal basis I think for any real benefit a Tin tends to be too small - which does mean its more likely to be with you on your person.

I think a nalgene size bottle kit is what I think of when viewing PSKs but it obvs larger - but for realities of survival ( if for any reason it came too it ) I think it would at least over achieve in all fields easily.
Can you boil water in an altoid tin? Yes - practical? - No.


Going back to the OP question regarding is a PSK required in the UK? Probably not - unless for training or learning purposes if one at some point intends to abroad to countries with far more wild real estate and land mass.

 

[TLM]

Probably not - unless for training or learning purposes if one at some point intends to abroad to countries with far more wild real estate and land mass.

I think that holds for most of Europe too.

 

[neoaliphant]

I know it was me ( that cur down the apple tree... ) that first mentioned tobacco tins as the UK source code for survival kit but on a personal basis I think for any real benefit a Tin tends to be too small - which does mean its more likely to be with you on your person.

I think a nalgene size bottle kit is what I think of when viewing PSKs but it obvs larger - but for realities of survival ( if for any reason it came too it ) I think it would at least over achieve in all fields easily.
Can you boil water in an altoid tin? Yes - practical? - No.


Going back to the OP question regarding is a PSK required in the UK? Probably not - unless for training or learning purposes if one at some point intends to abroad to countries with far more wild real estate and land mass.

yes, a tobacco tin is definitely more for stealth, or so small that you wont have a problem taking anywhere, for more practical the Mors Bushpot kit , or even a trangia messtin is far more practical.

a good resource is Build the Perfect Survival Kit by John McCann, goes in to details on kit contents from micro wallets to large backpack size kits, PSK to bugout bags....

 

[Ystranc]

I would like to raise one small point.
A little roll of brass snare wire (actually only the same as for hanging pictures but doubled up into 4 strands during the process of making the snare) will not catch anything without first being seasoned by boiling, rinsing, boiling again with grass and mud and then being buried in soil or at a pinch wood ash to get rid of every last trace of oil from the manufacturing process or human scent.
This raises the entire question about the competence of the people who push the concept of these kits.
Setting a snare made with bright, freshly manufactured brass wire is a sure recipe for living off leaves and roots.

 

[Jared]

I think a nalgene size bottle kit is what I think of when viewing PSKs but it obvs larger - but for realities of survival ( if for any reason it came too it ) I think it would at least over achieve in all fields easily.
Can you boil water in an altoid tin? Yes - practical? - No.

In the upcoming season of 7 vs Wild, they can only take what they can fit in a nalgene bottle. That's for 14 days survival. Whole bunch of videos on YouTube with people packing them.

 

[Minotaur]

The tin is supposed to be carried with a pouch containing a mess tin etc so it is more like a bottle kit or the 10cs.

 

[Scottieoutdoors]

It'd be interesting to know how the experts who preach PSK's go about them. Is it something they stick in their pocket whilst they're hopping into the car for the weekly supermarket shop...or taking the missus into town for a meal or for shopping?*

Or do they reserve these things for when they're out purely hiking/camping? Or given the majority of these experts tend to be ex-mil - or even ex-SF, are they preaching things that they were taught which would be more suited to a **** military situation whereby you may not have your gear with you, you may need to abandon it, you may be in a transport situation and it all goes wrong, or indeed a pilot that gets shot down where you won't have a pack, and merely have to survive until rescue.

I just personally find it too hard to accept that someone will go out in peacetime and get themselves into a situation whereby their survival hangs on a few items in a tobacco tin....or nalgene bottle... or lunchbox

*Or husband.... However I meant it more than it's a bit of a male lead pursuit - historically anyway...

 

[Ystranc]

It'd be interesting to know how the experts who preach PSK's go about them. Is it something they stick in their pocket whilst they're hopping into the car for the weekly supermarket shop...or taking the missus into town for a meal or for shopping?

Or do they reserve these things for when they're out purely hiking/camping? Or given the majority of these experts tend to be ex-mil - or even ex-SF, are they preaching things that they were taught which would be more suited to a **** military situation whereby you may not have your gear with you, you may need to abandon it, you may be in a transport situation and it all goes wrong, or indeed a pilot that gets shot down where you won't have a pack, and merely have to survive until rescue.

I just personally find it too hard to accept that someone will go out in peacetime and get themselves into a situation whereby their survival hangs on a few items in a tobacco tin....or nalgene bottle... or lunchbox

I think there are a few who carry them like a religious talisman (expecting this little tin to ward off catastrophes and allow them to walk around in a warm smug glow without ever realising that they would be much better off just wearing more sensible shoes.)

 

[TeeDee]

The tin is supposed to be carried with a pouch containing a mess tin etc so it is more like a bottle kit or the 10cs.

I'm not wishing to be argumentative - but thats not how I understood or believe they were intended to be carried - I believe that the idea was IF you ever got separated from your fighting order webbing then you'd still be carrying some rudimentary basic kit to make your E&E survival related escape.

That would make sense if you think about it.

 

[Wildgoose]

I'm not wishing to be argumentative - but thats not how I understood or believe they were intended to be carried - I believe that the idea was IF you ever got separated from your fighting order webbing then you'd still be carrying some rudimentary basic kit to make your E&E survival related escape.

That would make sense if you think about it.

In Lofty’s book he mentions the tobacco tin but on the next page is the belt pouch with mess tin, some dehydrated food, pen flares and a marker panel etc.

I think the tin is for the smock pocket and pouch on the trouser belt (there is a 58 patt and PLCE SAS rations pouch available)

 

[TeeDee]

In Lofty’s book he mentions the tobacco tin but on the next page is the belt pouch with mess tin, some dehydrated food, pen flares and a marker panel etc.

I think the tin is for the smock pocket and pouch on the trouser belt (there is a 58 patt and PLCE SAS rations pouch available)

Yes - that is also my understanding of it - so if you were bumped in the night and had to crash move out of an area you at least have something in your drop pocket or smock to assist.

 

[Minotaur]

To be honest you can read it both ways so I am not sure what he actual meant however the only reason to carry it on your belt rather than your web belt is so you can ditch your web belt and keep the kit.
My point is a lot of people are going the tin kit is rubbish however he was basically arguing for the bottle kit a long time ago.

 

[neoaliphant]

A bottle kit wont fit in a a smock/trouser pocket when you have army loadout on, a messtin kit ( as per lofty book) will fit in army issued gear

the nalgene/bushpot kit, aka mors kit, is better for bushcrafters etc, because its a different role....

big thing is any type of PSK is not to be dipped in to, they are tightly packed, whereas EDC is more accesible, daily use, and varies on the locale a lot. it does look like most of us really carry EDC nowadays not PSK