Interesting Canadian Canoe (Open boats only), DVD

[rancid badger]

Spotted this elsewhere and thought it might interest a few open boat paddlers on here

[video=youtube;RsRxkut1Bds]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsRxkut1Bds#t=78[/video]

I'm planning on dropping a few subtle hints, or failing that, "a brick in a sock" about Christmas presents to the brood later!

Cheers

Steve

 

[John Fenna]

I like the quote about the"80 year old guy, sitting on the porch" - that is going to be me too!

 

[rancid badger]

"We've been doing this, since the kid's left home and the dog died"

That's the one for me!

By the way, I've just ordered it from amazon uk, I couldn't resist it £16 odd, "cheap at twice the price" for me anyway

 

[Bushmanron]

altough i am not very experienced i do prefer a canadian canoe over a cyak. i can not afford one of my own and only get to use my club one on the canal at theweekends but i would love to go open water paddling. i have tried poling and find quite easy on flat water. i'd like to take a canoe out on a lake and combine paddling exploring a nice lake and camping over a few days.

 

[Tony]

Nice vid, good to see that it was so inclusive to al types of canoeing as well

 

[rancid badger]

altough i am not very experienced i do prefer a canadian canoe over a cyak. i can not afford one of my own and only get to use my club one on the canal at theweekends but i would love to go open water paddling. i have tried poling and find quite easy on flat water. i'd like to take a canoe out on a lake and combine paddling exploring a nice lake and camping over a few days.

Truth be told,you can't really do much in the way of canoe camping in the UK,unless you travel to Scotland. That's assuming you want to paddle between camp spots of course. If you just want to camp next to a lake and potter around it, there are quite a few more options.


I'd have thought your club would organise a few trips away from your local area,most clubs do, although they are often heavily biased towards kayaks too!

As far as the video goes; it's okay in parts, not so in others and as far as the " canoe dance" section goes- well that sort of thing is definitely not for me! To be honest, the UK bits were rather poor and could have been a lot more interesting. The Rannoch Moor trip wasn't my cup of tea, and they'd have been much better off maybe doing a Loch Shiel circuit or similar trip?

Anyway,overall it was worth watching.

 

[Bluffer]

Does the video include any sea-kayaking?

Love the clip in post #1 it seems to capture the spirit of canoe tripping, but obviously an important part of the full spectrum and origins would have to include sea kayaks surely!

 

[Trencakey]

Why would there be any sea kayaking in a dvd about canoeing ?

 

[Bluffer]

Because there are kayaks on the clip?

And the sponsors of the DVD are into sea kayaking?

 

[Trencakey]

I did'nt see any kayaks.

 

[rancid badger]

There are no kayaks of any description, featured at all, although there might be the occasional glimpse of one here and there. There are the "OC" type of things which to my mind are mostly simply kayaks with the top cut out!, but even these are paddled with a single blade paddle.

As for sea kayaks, (any kayak for that matter) they actually have nothing at all to do with canoeing. It seems to be a very common misunderstanding in this country that a Canoe is almost "anything you paddle".


You can check out the details on the likes of wikipedia if you need to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canoe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayak

 

[Bluffer]

The people who made and sponsored the DVD are into sea kayaking dude, they're Canadian ay.

You never paddled on the West coast of Canada?

There you will find the origins of the canoe and the kayak.

On the clip in Post #1 there is a kayaker using a double blade paddle, I just wondered if the full DVD included any sea kayaking.

 

[wales1]

Kayaking....canoeing. I do both so i call it paddling have never quite understood the friction between canoeists and kayakers really. The way I see it is we are all out there enjoying the water and the scenery. Kind of puts a dampener on the sport (or sports for some) when a canoeist blanks a kayaker and vice versa, as someone who paddles both its kind of annoying when you get sneered at by someone in a different type of craft. Both craft take skill to paddle and both have their advantages and disadvantages. The one big thing they have in common is that they are used to enjoy what the waters have to offer. Be it weeks away on expedition or just cruising along a loch/river.

Steve

 

[John Fenna]

I could never get all my canoe camping kit in a kayak! They are just not built to take a Dutch Oven ....
As to canoe camping in England - the Wye offers some excellent camp sites from Deluxe to plain "grass and a tap" in Wales the Daugleddau has some great spots the coast offers almost endless opportunities

 

[mrcharly]

I've never seen any 'blanking' between people in canoes and people in kayaks.

The two are very different. I have both. Different purposes, different enjoyment, too.

What annoys me (and other people, like badger here), is when people insist that canoeing and kayaking are the same thing. May as well say that riding a motorbike and driving a car are the same.

In a cold climate, I like canoeing. No drips making me damp. I can paddle in 'ordinary' clothes if I want.

 

[Bluffer]

What annoys me (and other people, like badger here), is when people insist that canoeing and kayaking are the same thing.

Fair points, however, nobody here has said the two different craft are the same?

 

[rancid badger]

Comparing a kayak and a canoe, is almost like comparing a BMX bike and a touring tandem( bike that is). They are indeed both bikes and both are used for "cycling" but the two simply don't mix. The bmx is (or was in my day!)for farting about on ramps and doing "tricks", while the tandem is made for covering serious distance on the road, at reasonable speed. As for the folk who happen to have both a BMX and a tandem; good for them! but they don't normally ride their BMX in company with a group of road bikers and vice versa.



I wouldn't choose to paddle my Canadian canoe "in company" with kayaks or sots etc, because those craft are invariably much easier to paddle and therefore significantly faster than, a Canadian canoe. This inevitably leads to either the canoeists wearing themselves out, trying to keep up with the kayakers or the kayakers getting frustrated and bored, waiting for the canoes. Simple really.



The "friction" aspect does not really come into my paddling at all. I've come across more open boaters that blank you, even to the point that they've changed direction to avoid the group I was paddling with!, whereas kayakers, often paddle toward you, have a quick chat, then skeet off at high revs and rapidly disappear!

 

[rancid badger]

Fair points, however, nobody here has said the two different craft are the same?

No, maybe not on here or in this thread, but in the real world, "out there", in the media,at work and even on what are supposed to be "open canoe forums" It happens all the time.

The biggest irritation for me, to be honest, is when the media report "another 'canoeing' tragedy".

Most of the time, they are reporting kayak incidents of one sort or another. I've no actual figures but I've had to re-assure my family that in fact; "No,that isn't a canoe related incident at all", numerous times, every year, since 2008 when I first started paddling Canadian canoes.

 

[Bluffer]

Do you find that your canoeing helps you to relax and unwind?

 

[wales1]

I wouldn't choose to paddle my Canadian canoe "in company" with kayaks or sots etc, because those craft are invariably much easier to paddle and therefore significantly faster than, a Canadian canoe. This inevitably leads to either the canoeists wearing themselves out, trying to keep up with the kayakers

QUOTE]

Agree with you on the lack of definition of kayaking/canoeing to the general public, I continually get asked what the difference is. However, for those of us in the know, I'm not entirely sure that kayaks are much easier to paddle than canoes. Not once you get the hang of the J stroke in the open boat, which is a basic required stroke for solo paddling, same as knowing how to use a kayak paddle to propel the boat is a basic requirement in a kayak. So once you know the basic method of propelling the canoe or kayak, you have then entered into the beginner category, it's at that point that skill varies from person to person, and that accounts for canoes and kayaks. Although, a kayak is faster, but that is an inherent design of the craft, it doesn't make it any easier to paddle, it's just faster...
If we are comparing like for like, paddling on flatwater for instance, I would go as far as to say that paddling a canoe is easier given the fact an open boat is typically 10 inches wider than a touring kayak meaning the stability of a canoe is going to be greater than that of a kayak (obviously you can get tippy canoes or kayaks though, but you would need to consider the particular design as a fair comparison).
And on the double blade/single blade debate, I believe the reason for having a double kayak blade as opposed to a single canoe blade is down to two factors, a double blade paddle is faster than a single blade and the double blade suits the ergonomics of the paddling style of the kayak. Same as a single blade suits the upright paddling position of the canoe, a double blade in a canoe just doesn't really suit the design/ergonomics. The remarks that 'anyone can do that with two blades', 'a single blade takes more skill than a double blade' and 'canoeing is the purist form of paddling' that are often heard amongst the elitist canoeist fraternity just aren't correct.
First and foremost, you only have one blade in the water at a time, regardless of it being a canoe paddle or kayak paddle, unless your paddling tandem in a canoe, and then you can literally have two blades in the water at the same time, so if two blades is an alleged advantage, then the canoe is the one with the advantage, not the kayak

Paddling skill can vary from paddler to paddler, but I don't believe for one minute that canoeing takes more skill than kayaking, as you can make your manoeuvres as simple or as complicated as you like, of which the requirement for varying skill levels is required, be it in a canoe or kayak. (not entirely sure why canoeists think that paddling a kayak doesn't consist of various complex paddling strokes/braces, just the same as the canoe also has it's fair share of strokes/braces etc). Only difference being that with a kayak, the boundaries are different as a kayak is designed to take on a much higher grade of water than a canoe. After all, that was the original intention of the design. (also note the translation of a kayak is 'Man's boat!)

And as for canoeing being the purist form of paddling, Just because one craft was around before the other doesn't make it better, not given the fact that evolution is constant on this planet, and a kayak is simply a perfect example of evolution; Able to take on extreme waters and at a higher speed when required (although the load carrying has been sacrificed, doh! but still sufficient to sort long expeditions). Without evolution we wouldn't be reading this now, we would be too busy throwing rocks at each other and crapping in the woods (although, not everyone has evolved! and dependant on locality, this is still a normality).

Just thought I would back up the kayaking sport a tad, not that I think kayaking is better than canoeing or vice versa, they are both great. Just pointing out that kayaking is most certainly not a simpleton's sport and the skill level required depends on the type of water you intend to paddle, pretty much the same as with a canoe

Steve