Insulated mid-layer for extreme wind and cold weather

[HorseGuy]

Hello all of you knowledgeable outdoorsy guys and gals.

Some advice and suggestions would be appreciated. In between doing horse and field maintenance jobs I sometimes spend hours at a time just standing around or sitting down outside without doing much. During the winter times it can get pretty cold and windy out here on the edge of the moors, especially when I’m not moving around to generate any body heat to keep warm. Hence I’m on the lookout for a new super warm insulated mid-layer.

At the moment in the winter I usually wear an army surplus thermal top with a cotton vest on top of that for the base-layers. A cotton polo-shirt with a jumper and/or fleece on top of that for the mid layers. Then a Keela Munro coat for the outer shell. Most of the time that usually does the job fine and when it gets really cold I swap the fleece out for a thick duck down filled hoody as the mid-layer which keeps me warm no matter how cold it gets. The only problem I have with the duck filled hoody is it’s an industrial work wear jacket made by Apache rather than a proper outdoor jacket designed for outdoorsy people like bushcrafters or mountain climbers. It is tough and warm for sure but it's also bulky and weighs an absolute ton.

I want a better insulated mid-layer jacket of some kind which will keep me just as warm as the duck down filled hoodie does but without so much of a weight penalty. I was considering a Snugpak SJ9 or maybe one of the Buffalo tops? There's plenty of room in my Keela Munro jacket. I own two of them and one was bought a size too large so that it can fit lots of extra layers underneath it.

So do you have any suggestions for a good, insulated mid-layer for extreme wind and cold weather conditions?

 

[johnnytheboy]

I know this is off your topic but from the above list I’d drop a cotton base layer and get a merino one, with thin fleece on top of that, then onto your mid layer.

I spend a lot of time like you sedentary in the cold, consider leg insulation as a key part to the above and supplement warmth for your hands.

I use isobaa merino zip neck base layer, it’s loose and not scratchy, and RAB nebitron pro mid layer.

 

[HillBill]

Buffalo 6. @k9trev has one available atm... depending on size..

Even if his doesn't fit, look into them. People complain they are too warm... But those people aren't in extreme wind and cold and static.

 

[C_Claycomb]

PhD down vests etc. check eBay. Bought one on here years ago for a lot less than new. Super light, very warm, compresses to the size of a small melon when packed.

For synthetic I have a light version of the Paramo Torres smock (was on sale). It is sized to fit over an outer layer rather than under, but I have used it in both.

One thing to bear in mind, light bulky insulation tends to compress. Wearing under a heavier outer layer can compress the insulation somewhat compared to its free thickness. The pile/pertex stuff is less compressible than the two garments I have.

Third suggestion, something like a Jerven Bag. Legs look after themselves fine most times while moving, but static it can really help to have something to wrap the lower half in. Good hat and neck gaiter are also assumed, boost the warmth of any coat system.

I agree that a wool base layer will keep you warmer to begin with than the cotton, even ignoring whether you have got warm working and sweated into it.

 

[TLM]

Hmmm ... the first thing is to have an outer layer of something that blocks the wind, preferably totally. After that anything that has enough thickness and stops the air moving, down if the lightest some wools next and various synthetic fleeces and piles generally heaviest. The air insulates, the other material just prevents it from moving and creates thickness.

I have found fish net underwear surprisingly effective in cold and it also works while doing light work. It is not as good if one is sweating heavily but nothing really works well in cold in that case.

 

[HorseGuy]

I know this is off your topic but from the above list I’d drop a cotton base layer and get a merino one, with thin fleece on top of that, then onto your mid layer.

I spend a lot of time like you sedentary in the cold, consider leg insulation as a key part to the above and supplement warmth for your hands.

I use isobaa merino zip neck base layer, it’s loose and not scratchy, and RAB nebitron pro mid layer.

Thanks for your reply. Off topic or not any additional insights or advice are always welcomed by me.

Aside from the British army surplus low neck thermal tops I also own a Keela Fleece and Dutch fleece high neck thermal zip tops. In due course I intend to get some proper merino thermal tops as well (my girlfriend has hinted their might be one coming my way for a valentines present) but they are quite expensive so I will have to get them slowly as funds allow.

I also have three pairs of Keela merino leggings which I love and would like to get some more one day but again they are expensive and way down my list of priorities at the moment. Sometimes if it gets really cold I wear a pair of cotton pajama bottoms between my merino leggings and cargo pants outer trousers. That seems to do the job well.

 

[HorseGuy]

Buffalo 6. @k9trev has one available atm... depending on size..

Even if his doesn't fit, look into them. People complain they are too warm... But those people aren't in extreme wind and cold and static.

Yes the Buffalo 6 is something I saw in another thread yesterday and I will investigate further. Being too warm sounds good.

 

[HorseGuy]

Hmmm ... the first thing is to have an outer layer of something that blocks the wind, preferably totally. After that anything that has enough thickness and stops the air moving, down if the lightest some wools next and various synthetic fleeces and piles generally heaviest. The air insulates, the other material just prevents it from moving and creates thickness.

I have found fish net underwear surprisingly effective in cold and it also works while doing light work. It is not as good if one is sweating heavily but nothing really works well in cold in that case.

My Keela Munro jacket works perfectly at stopping the wind and I have plenty insulating layers which I can fit underneath it. My main aim now is to improve the quality of some of the insulation layers in order to reduce weight and bulk a little while still keeping the same amount of insulation. Much of that weight comes from the padded Apache industrial work wear hoodie. Effective at insulating but a fairly cheap and heavy. The outer layer feels almost like thick heavy denim. Good if you work on a building site but not ideal for other outdoorsy activities.

 

[TLM]

My main aim now is the improve the quality of some of the insulation layers in order to reduce weight and bulk a little while still keeping the same amount of insulation.

You want to retain the bulk but reduce weight, the thickness of the layer beneath the outer is the main cause of insulation properties, one wants "dead air thickness".

 

[Chris]

Hello all of you knowledgeable outdoorsy guys and gals.

Some advice and suggestions would be appreciated. In between doing horse and field maintenance jobs I sometimes spend hours at a time just standing around or sitting down outside without doing much. During the winter times it can get pretty cold and windy out here on the edge of the moors, especially when I’m not moving around to generate any body heat to keep warm. Hence I’m on the lookout for a new super warm insulated mid-layer.

At the moment in the winter I usually wear an army surplus thermal top with a cotton vest on top of that for the base-layers. A cotton polo-shirt with a jumper and/or fleece on top of that for the mid layers. Then a Keela Munro coat for the outer shell. Most of the time that usually does the job fine and when it gets really cold I swap the fleece out for a thick duck down filled hoody as the mid-layer which keeps me warm no matter how cold it gets. The only problem I have with the duck filled hoody is it’s an industrial work wear jacket made by Apache rather than a proper outdoor jacket designed for outdoorsy people like bushcrafters or mountain climbers. It is tough and warm for sure but it's also bulky and weighs an absolute ton.

I want a better insulated mid-layer jacket of some kind which will keep me just as warm as the duck down filled hoodie does but without so much of a weight penalty. I was considering a Snugpak SJ9 or maybe one of the Buffalo tops? There's plenty of room in my Keela Munro jacket. I own two of them and one was bought a size too large so that it can fit lots of extra layers underneath it.

So do you have any suggestions for a good, insulated mid-layer for extreme wind and cold weather conditions?

Do you have a budget in mind?

 

[HorseGuy]

Do you have a budget in mind?

Not really. It's an ongoing process of gradually replacing existing clothing with better quality gear over time. Keeping an eye on second hand markets and sometimes bagging a bargain. Other times saving up and buying new gear. A certain amount of trial and error too.

Just building a basic knowledge base on high performance clothing and what works. I'm currently looking ahead to next winter. What should I keep an eye out for over the next few months then if I have no luck buying something secondhand I'll buy new in the autumn ready for winter.

 

[Herman30]

Can not be enough emphasised what TLM allready pointed out.
First thing to understand about insulation is that it is not the fabric that insulate but the air that the garment binds. 1 inch of down insulates better than 1 yard of concrete.
Inside concrete walls in our apartment are cold to the touch, if the walls were wood they would feel warm.

 

[HorseGuy]

You want to retain the bulk but reduce weight, the thickness of the layer beneath the outer is the main cause of insulation properties, one wants "dead air thickness".

Yes too much weight is the main issue I have. There's plenty of space inside the larger sized Keela Munro jacket so bulk is not an a issue there. Sometimes my arm movement gets slightly restricted if I wear too many layers with sleeves though.

 

[Chris]

Not really. It's an ongoing process of gradually replacing existing clothing with better quality gear over time. Keeping an eye on second hand markets and sometimes bagging a bargain. Other times saving up and buying new gear. A certain amount of trial and error too.

Just building a basic knowledge base on high performance clothing and what works. I'm currently looking ahead to next winter. What should I keep an eye out for over the next few months then if I have no luck buying something secondhand I'll buy new in the autumn ready for winter.

Arc’teryx Atom LT is a brilliant mid layer. Warm, compact and lightweight. Not cheap, though. The LEAF version is particularly good but is much harder to get hold of if not serving in the Armed Forces.

 

[infectedcraft]

Already loads of great suggestions from others,

Just be mindful when wearing cotton for insulation especially in British weather, if it gets wet it takes forever to dry and won't insulate you anymore

 

[johnnytheboy]

Thanks for your reply. Off topic or not any additional insights or advice are always welcomed by me.

Aside from the British army surplus low neck thermal tops I also own a Keela Fleece and Dutch fleece high neck thermal zip tops. In due course I intend to get some proper merino thermal tops as well (my girlfriend has hinted their might be one coming my way for a valentines present) but they are quite expensive so I will have to get them slowly as funds allow.

I also have three pairs of Keela merino leggings which I love and would like to get some more one day but again they are expensive and way down my list of priorities at the moment. Sometimes if it gets really cold I wear a pair of cotton pajama bottoms between my merino leggings and cargo pants outer trousers. That seems to do the job well.

One thing to ensure if your not wearing that much clothes your doing the opposite and getting cold as there is no air gaps to heat up for insulation!

This is the merino one I got, really comfortable, decent discount on this site!

https://www.sportpursuit.com/catalog/product/view/id/870840

 

[HorseGuy]

After a bit of research I really like the look of the Buffalo Special 6 top. I prefer jacket with a full length front zip though. Do Buffalo make a top which is the same as the Special 6 but with a longer zip? Their range of clothing is a little confusing when comparing.

 

[hughtrimble]

After a bit of research I really like the look of the Buffalo Special 6 top. I prefer jacket with a full length front zip though. Do Buffalo make a top which is the same as the Special 6 but with a longer zip? Their range of clothing is a little confusing when comparing.

Yes they are very confusing. The Belay jacket is the closest you'll find these days, but loses the kangaroo pocket given the full length zip.

 

[hughtrimble]

Yes they are very confusing. The Belay jacket is the closest you'll find these days, but loses the kangaroo pocket given the full length zip.

It's worth noting that the Belay doesn't have the longer back panel of the Special 6, so I suppose really the Belay is more like the Mountain Shirt because of this. But it's still the closest thing with a full length zip.

 

[HorseGuy]

Thanks for you advice and suggestions everyone. Some very interesting stuff there. I will keep an eye out for a second hand a Buffalo Special 6 or Belay jacket over summer then if I don't have any luck I will save up and buy a new one ready for next winter.

In the meantime I might buy this cheaper alternative to tide me over:
https://www.newforestclothing.co.uk/products/jack-pyke-sherpa-fleece-hoodie-gen-2

I know it isn't waterproof and won't hold warmth if it gets wet like the Buffalo would but remember it will be worn as a mid-layer underneath a Keela Munro jacket so getting damp is unlikely to be an issue. What do you guys think of that Jack Pyke Sherpa Fleece Hoodie?