"I live without cash – and I manage just fine "

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xylaria

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I think in a few hundred years, money will no longer have any value or meaning, clean water, food & space will be the new currencies.....As for the powers that be, surely those who are better armed & able to hold onto the dwindlig recources will dictate their law. Slavery looks like it going to continue.
To change the future we have to change the present but since that would involve a complete & radical change in our lives & many uncomfortable sacrifices, no one is prepared to even start...We all know where we're headin' but instead of 'slamming on the brakes', we're accelerating.

Sorry, not sure this has any relevance to the thread.

I think it is relavent to the thread.
Changing to simplier life that uses less resources is a survival stratgy, that doesnt envolve the better armed dicating their law. The way we were heading money isn't going to mean much in a few years not centeries. The globe has become better educated to been lied to by their various governments.

Quite a few people here have opted to live simplier lives, it is healthier, and in some ways it provides a more secure future both indivilually and as a society. None of us need flat screen TVs, new cars, new clothes. We know we need basically shelter, food, water and warmeth, everything past that is personal choice of comfort. I fasinated that there are people both here and in the states that have dropped so far out of the system, [living 100% off grid, and no handouts] that they dont exist on paper.
 

Adze

Native
Oct 9, 2009
1,874
0
Cumbria
www.adamhughes.net
I class them with the politicians who cheat on their expences as bigger parasites that the freeloader in the original post

I'd go with that - in terms of doing least harm he's way, way down the scale compared with some. Quite possibly the rise of the supermarkets should be considered as most to blame for the degredation of our society and culture.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,938
4,571
S. Lanarkshire
.........but they only exist in peace because the country they live in is secure.
How much peace would they have from bands of marauders ? and does anyone really want to live in a land where we have fortresses on every hilltop again ?

This is how society grows, evolves, develops. From family to tribe to clan to kingdoms to nations, and at every step of the way people try to make provision for those who cannot manage to support themselves, try to improve living conditions for everybody.
From the clean running water and decent sewerage systems of the Victorians, to the housing, and financial support of the disable, single parents, the elderly of the present; society is trying.

Oi! Sandbender..........when did you last try to cross the Forth ? it's a nightmare half the time, the sooner that new bridge is built the better, and similarly the A9 north. Inverness is a major city and it's main access is still a dual carriage way for much of it's length.

That's the biggest difference, and the greatest improvement, and the best hope for the future........easy access to resources, easy communication, and easy available information freely available.
On the other hand, control the easy access to communication and information....... :dunno:

cheers,
Toddy
 
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Retired Member southey

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jun 4, 2006
11,098
13
your house!
This is to me one of the biggest problems of development of rural routes,

Solstice services, Amesbury,

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and you'll see carbon copies all over the country,
 

Andy BB

Full Member
Apr 19, 2010
3,290
1
Hampshire
Is this the same money that is being cut from these services as we speak, the same money that is being syphoned off into the profits of the Conservatives donors and chosen providers, the money that is being denied to the sick and disabled through incompetent (at best) or malicious use of ATOS. Is this the money that Monsanto is earning by making millions slaves to their seeds across the world. Though profit can and does drive innovation it also encourages greed and ignorance, wilful or not, of the real cost of these actions to others and the planet.

I truly hope that within a few centuries we will have moved on from being slaves to both the powers that be and yes money, I hope there will be a revelation that we can work together as a planet and use technology to create an egalitarian society where each person is free to live and explore life in whatever way they want so long as no harm is done to others. I also believe that in such a circumstance people will show the best of themselves and want to work for the betterment of all.

Either that or those that pursue profit above all else will have damaged the world to the point where human civilisation is thrown back to the dark ages or beyond.

I may have watched too much Star Trek

Funny no-one complained when the taxes paid on the profits from the banks and their employees funded social security/NHS etc for decades!

Capitalism may not be the answer, but having worked on 6 continents and dozens of countries in the last 30-odd years, its better than the alternatives!
 

Randall

Tenderfoot
Feb 16, 2012
65
0
Peak District
..Reminds me of something George Carlin said - "I think people should be allowed to do anything they want. We haven't tried that for a while. Maybe this time it'll work"

To be fair he was a comedian, and a rather cycnical one at that. But it does seem increasingly likely that sooner or later this will be the case, so it would be wise to prepare for it.
 

cbr6fs

Native
Mar 30, 2011
1,620
0
Athens, Greece
I think all this break down of society stuff is absolute rubbish.

First off everyone CAN do what this guy is doing.
In reality though the vast vast vast majority of us choose to work for a living to bring home money to provide financial and physical security (house) to our families.

So for me i'm happy to pay into NI contributions to help out this guy if he needs it, he has sacrificed settling down, starting a family and the usual "wants" in modern day life to pursue the lifestyle he wants, so good on him.

It's hardly like society is going to crack and crumble because a few people read his story and decide to try it for themselves is it.

So all this health service crumbling, being invaded stuff is taking unlikely things to the absolute extremes, as is often the way on the internet.



hermitical,

The system we have is far from perfect, but capitalism if thought through works well.
Our problems are not with capitalism it's with huge corporations being able to get THAT big the are swaying governments.

For most of us usual folk it works well.
For me at 42 i now have money for nicer things in life, this is because i have worked hard my entire adult life and have looked after my money.
It's easy for lazy youths, students etc to look at my life and criticise, thing is though i chose to work for a living when i left school at 15 rather than attend further education, i then started at the bottom and slogged my way up.
Sure i've had some lucky breaks, but anyone could if they wanted to have financial security enough to retire at 50 if they really wanted to.

If i stepped into say a communist society i would be made to work full time again and have many of my things taken by the state.
How is that fair, that i end up working next to a lazy guy who is out spending his money on drink every night?

Way i see it is, i chose to work and have financial security at 42.
This guy chose not to work and has nothing.

What happens if this guy gets seriously ill?
I'm not talking about the expense to the health system, as i say don't care about that, i'm talking about if the worst happens and this guy is bed ridden for weeks or months.
How does he then earn his keep, food, warmth etc?

What happens if his caravan gets destroyed in a storm?
again with no financial security it's not like he can go out and buy a replacement is it.

So we all make choices, some spend their money before they have it, others like to have a nest egg, others like this guy live life day to day.
It really boils down to the choices we make in life and living with the consequences of those choices.

Society isn't going to break down because of this guy, and everyone could live life like this guy if they wanted, the fact that they don't means that most of us prefer more security.
 

Andy BB

Full Member
Apr 19, 2010
3,290
1
Hampshire
Society isn't going to break down because of this guy, and everyone could live life like this guy if they wanted, the fact that they don't means that most of us prefer more security.

If everyone lived like this guy, no-one would be able to live like this guy - including him!
 
Feb 15, 2011
3,860
2
Elsewhere
The system we have is far from perfect, but capitalism if thought through works well.
Our problems are not with capitalism


Capitalism is built upon financial speculation & exploitation..We have seen during the past few years just how fragile the foundations of this system are & the only way we can recover from the situation, or so we are told, is more growth..i.e. people spending more money buying things thus using the worlds resources even quicker. It's a very short term solution. Countries whos civilisation is based upon spending & buying & threatens to topple over when there is a slow down of this consumerism, doesn't sound like a system that works well to me.
Manufacterers now build things that can't be repaired of have inbuilt weaknesses, particually computers & mobile phones, in an attempt to keep sales moving so when one breaks you have to buy a new one. The quantity of resources,including water, needed to make these things is astounding yet only the short term turnover of these products & share holder bonuses matter, make hay while the sun shines & to hell with the consequencies. that is capitalism.
 

cbr6fs

Native
Mar 30, 2011
1,620
0
Athens, Greece
Society isn't going to break down because of this guy, and everyone could live life like this guy if they wanted, the fact that they don't means that most of us prefer more security.

If everyone lived like this guy, no-one would be able to live like this guy - including him!


Andy,

That's exactly the point of my post.
EVERYONE has the choice to live like this guy, yet very few do.

So the "threat" to society is dramatically over exaggerated.
 

cbr6fs

Native
Mar 30, 2011
1,620
0
Athens, Greece
Capitalism is built upon financial speculation & exploitation..We have seen during the past few years just how fragile the foundations of this system are & the only way we can recover from the situation, or so we are told, is more growth..i.e. people spending more money buying things thus using the worlds resources even quicker. It's a very short term solution. Countries whos civilisation is based upon spending & buying & threatens to topple over when there is a slow down of this consumerism, doesn't sound like a system that works well to me.
Manufacterers now build things that can't be repaired of have inbuilt weaknesses, particually computers & mobile phones, in an attempt to keep sales moving so when one breaks you have to buy a new one. The quantity of resources,including water, needed to make these things is astounding yet only the short term turnover of these products & share holder bonuses matter, make hay while the sun shines & to hell with the consequencies. that is capitalism.

That's your definition of capitalism, it's not mine.

It's also FULL of inaccuracies, "inbuilt weaknesses" come on we are talking as mentally stable adults here.
I have an old mobile phone that a mate of mine helped design i can tell you 100% that if he'd designed in a "weakness" he would have an extremely short career.

I think you are getting into the realm of conspiracy theories here, which if firstly something i believe is a load of rubbish and secondly is VERY far off topic.
 

Adze

Native
Oct 9, 2009
1,874
0
Cumbria
www.adamhughes.net
Society isn't going to break down because of this guy, and everyone could live life like this guy if they wanted, the fact that they don't means that most of us prefer more security.

If everyone lived like this guy, no-one would be able to live like this guy - including him!

Daily Mail or the Express Andy?
 
Feb 15, 2011
3,860
2
Elsewhere
That's your definition of capitalism, it's not mine.

It's also FULL of inaccuracies, "inbuilt weaknesses" come on we are talking as mentally stable adults here.
I have an old mobile phone that a mate of mine helped design i can tell you 100% that if he'd designed in a "weakness" he would have an extremely short career.

I think you are getting into the realm of conspiracy theories here, which if firstly something i believe is a load of rubbish and secondly is VERY far off topic.



I did say 'now'.........laptops can longer be opened to repair or change the keyboards, i phones for example, have fragile screens & connections that easily come away, You can claim that electrical products made today are as solid & reliable as they were several years ago but user feedback proves otherwise.
You're right though completely off topic..sorry.:eek:
 

Adze

Native
Oct 9, 2009
1,874
0
Cumbria
www.adamhughes.net
laptops can longer be opened to repair or change the keyboards
Yes they can... I do it more or less every day. Granted it's not as obvious how they come to pieces as it used to be, but that's the trend for form over function hiding screw heads and favouring plasting clips instead of a more bolt together approach.

Just as 1930's blacksmith technology no longer repairs modern cars very well, neither does 1990's tooling for laptops. One moves with the times or retrains to do summat else ;)

Actually the biggest reason for lack of reliability is the move away from heavy metal solders - modern zero lead solder has a tendency to re-form a crystaline structure over time which isn't anything like as good at conducting high frequencies, so components fail earlier. This was a move looked upon with great favour by the Green movement and environmentalists in general as it kept heavy metal production to a minimum and kept a lot more of it out of landfill. With every advance there's an apparent backward step though and in terms of electronics it was increased fragility leading to a higher proportion of early failures.
 
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cbr6fs

Native
Mar 30, 2011
1,620
0
Athens, Greece
I did say 'now'.........laptops can longer be opened to repair or change the keyboards, i phones for example, have fragile screens & connections that easily come away, You can claim that electrical products made today are as solid & reliable as they were several years ago but user feedback proves otherwise.
You're right though completely off topic..sorry.:eek:

That is absolute rubbish.

I do not know of and have never heard of a Laptop that can't be opened.
Every part CAN be replaced but just like cars it comes down to if it's financially viable to repair something.
Iphones i don't know and don't care because i buy products from corporations that don't treat their customers like 5 year old kids ;)

Electronics are getting smaller, therefore wires that connect these electronics are getting smaller.
As a guide i am easily able to personally repair the kids walkman tape machine.
Apart from changing a battery (Iphone) or basic repairs i wouldn't dream of repairing my mobile phone myself.

They ARE repaired though
 

andybysea

Full Member
Oct 15, 2008
2,609
0
South east Scotland.
The guy in question may be lucky enough to never need use of the NHS or Police,but if he suddenly dropped down and needed urgent treatment i for one would'nt turn round and tell him to go off and die because he had'nt paid anything, i think the American system is absolutely horrendous,though i can see this lot in now wanting it for us.
 

Tengu

Full Member
Jan 10, 2006
12,781
1,518
51
Wiltshire
I think I will hug my Shrink the next time I see him; he is after all one of the leaders in his field....

....If we had to pay his private rates then very few people would get his services...including all but the Extreemely rich.
 

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