Hypothetical qualification question posed to me.

[ex Member swampy99]

Now this may have been asked before but if you wanted to set up a survival/trekking company in a different country (not Australia or UK) what qualifications do you need to claim you are a survival instructor?

This was posed to me by a friend who wanted to possibly set something up in Thailand. He has past military training including there survival course and been on a few civi courses but has no certificates to prove anything if someone asks.

We have both googled this but can not seem to find a recognised qualification.

Any help or advice would be nice.

 

[santaman2000]

That's because there is no recognized "certification"; at least not on any international level (and indeed not in most countries) There are definately a number of "qualifications"; Military training in survival alone isn't one (after all, every flight crewman gets at least a minimum S.E.R.E. course) but----can the individual show proof that their M.O.S. (Military Occupational Specialty) was survival "trainer/instructer?" That would go a long way towards establishing credibility.

 

[ex Member swampy99]

He is Ex UK Forces (Army infantry) and there is just E&E training with some survival stuff through in and then a jungle course for the troops going to the Jungle on a tour. It is only when you become an instructor and work in one of the "schools" can you then claim the UK equivalent of MOS. But saying that I have found out from first hand experience that my military (we were in the same regt) qualifications in climbing sometimes do not get recognised by the civilian companies so this could be the same thing as there is no international certificate so how can you prove what you know if challenged by a student?

 

[santaman2000]

Same here as far as claiming the MOS; although over here the Air Force runs the biggest, most intensive one because it's most likely to apply to aircrew shot down behind enemy lines or crashing far from quick rescue (at least that's the philosophy)

You cain't really prove it per se. You can show a student your credentials (whatever credentials you do have) and any reviews from previous students; then the student should (and I stress should) research the the school's reputation before ever applying.

 

[johnboy]

He is Ex UK Forces (Army infantry) and there is just E&E training with some survival stuff through in and then a jungle course for the troops going to the Jungle on a tour. It is only when you become an instructor and work in one of the "schools" can you then claim the UK equivalent of MOS. But saying that I have found out from first hand experience that my military (we were in the same regt) qualifications in climbing sometimes do not get recognised by the civilian companies so this could be the same thing as there is no international certificate so how can you prove what you know if challenged by a student?

Where is he going to be operating?

Do the local authorities have any requirements that he needs to meet?

Has he spoken to any other companies operating in the area to see if they can offer any advice?

What target audience is he aiming at? Gap year, Bushcraft folk, SKI's etc... The target audience will dictate how to market the business, What expectations client groups have for a course, What is needed in the way of hard and soft skills.

HTH

John

 

[ex Member swampy99]

Where is he going to be operating?

Do the local authorities have any requirements that he needs to meet?

Has he spoken to any other companies operating in the area to see if they can offer any advice?

What target audience is he aiming at? Gap year, Bushcraft folk, SKI's etc... The target audience will dictate how to market the business, What expectations client groups have for a course, What is needed in the way of hard and soft skills.

HTH

John

Possibly looking to set up in Thailand as he has contacts there who could help with the thai side of it plus using the locals as guides.

The target audience would be a mixture but making this as a prelim to people going out and trekking in the rainforest and giving them some skills so they can get out of trouble if that happens or just to make life in the jungle/rainforest a bit more comfortable.

He did mention about giving some training to types that may be wanting to go and help in Burma but we think we may have talked him out of doing that one.

But you can see there is potential for this as there is not many if any permanent "schools" in Thailand.

 

[spandit]

I've got the RLWB*, WRMP** and DMBG*** qualifications



* Read Lofty Wiseman's Book
** Watched Ray Mears' Programme
*** Don't mind Bear Grylls

 

[Paganwolf]

I've got the RLWB*, WRMP** and DMBG*** qualifications



* Read Lofty Wiseman's Book
** Watched Ray Mears' Programme
*** Don't mind Bear Grylls

PMSL!!!!!!!! Quality!!
Instructors arnt grade-able on paper and anyone who thinks you can just do a weeks course for a lot of money then a test and miraculously become "EXPERIENCED" and have the ability to teach the subject is sadly mistaken.
People who teach this subject are as good as their past students and other learned teachers in the subject tell you, if he is good at his subject and puts the effort in he will get his just deserts... As has been said once his reputation is known its all good.
May be he needs to help out another school for a reference he can put on his site?

 

[FGYT]

best qualification is being an instructor of some sort it doesn't matter so much what you know but how you teach it to others you maybe the best Bushcrafter in the world but if you cant interact and teach you are useless as an instructor ( doing a military course does not make you an instructor in the same course )

so was your mate an army instructor of any sort though it needs to be tempered towards Civiys UK army instructors are generally very good and well trained (yes i know there are always exceptions and some good military instructors cant make the transition to teaching school kids etc )

other than that its down to what he as done and experienced i assume hes fairly versed in the Thai landscape he wishes to teach in and for if not i would recommend he goes over and lives in it for a bit see if what he learnt here works there

I did UK Army cadet Instructor courses etc and am a PADI Dive instructor again a teaching course so am happy that I can teach to others Bushcraft elements that i know well and understand but Im not a Bushcraft instructor ( ie set up a lesson plan and confidently run a class/ workshop and deal with a variety of learning types so that at the end every body has learned something and has had an enjoyable experience )

ATB

Duncan

 

[FGYT]

PMSL!!!!!!!! Quality!!
Instructors arnt grade-able on paper and anyone who thinks you can just do a weeks course for a lot of money then a test and miraculously become "EXPERIENCED" and have the ability to teach the subject is sadly mistaken.
People who teach this subject are as good as their past students and other learned teachers in the subject tell you, if he is good at his subject and puts the effort in he will get his just deserts... As has been said once his reputation is known its all good.
May be he needs to help out another school for a reference he can put on his site?

I got the JPTM** cert level 6 last year at the WG

hoping to get to Lv 10 this year



ATB

Duncan

** JP Told Me

 

[Ex-member EagleOwl]

There is no real qualifications but just ask yourself what you would wan't from an instructor.

http://www.codylundin.com/choosing.html

No affiliation etc and that article does seem to bam himself up a little but i agree with it. He doesn't teach survival though he teaches primitive living but they are largely the same.

One thing i'd be concerned with is i take it your friend doesn't have a lot of experience in the thai jungle, and that's the kind of place i wouldn't go without somoene with experience of actually living in there for a few years.

 

[Dark Horse Dave]

That's a great link EagleOwl. It's funny that as I read through it, all sorts of names popped into my head..............

 

[Paganwolf]

i got the jptm** cert level 6 last year at the wg

hoping to get to lv 10 this year



atb

duncan

** jp told me

pmsl!!!!!!!

 

[santaman2000]

You might also check to see if Thailand has any parallel certification requirements. By that I mean do they require certification for jungle guides or something similar. I believe most of the African countries require the Professional Hunters to be licensed and I know some of our Western states here require guides and/or outfitters to be licensed. It's possible any outdoor school might fall under such jurisdiction as well. What are the administrative sub-divisions in Thailand? I mentioned the individual states here; it's possible that even if there is no national requirement in Thailand, it may be delegated down to a more local authority.

 

[BOD]

The way this is going it is obvious that no one has any experience of doing this in Thailand.

The advice given is okay but it is not appropriate for Thailand.

There are a number of people who offer these sorts of courses all over Thailand just Google "Phuket jungle survival" and you will find no shortage of Old Asia Hands in the business.

Basically you need a local JV partner, some rural Thais or better still hill tribesmen as demonstrators and a place to do the course plus a website.

Don't expect to get rich though you will learn a lot and not just about bushcraft

 

[rik_uk3]

There is at least one brit jungle survival/bushcraft school out there as the owner was active on another site I used, might be worth you tracking him down. IIRC he had no qualifications as such just years of experience.

 

[wattsy]

if you can't prove you have a qualification then you don't have it.

 

[ex Member swampy99]

if you can't prove you have a qualification then you don't have it.

And what has been highlighted is there is no qualification to get to be able to prove you can do it. So if you cant get it you cant prove it till you can get it but who can give it to you would have to prove it. Chicken and the egg theory.

Looks like he will have to look into Thailand a bit more and he was thinking of using local guides and the such but wanted to have a European face to the firm.

 

[santaman2000]

if you can't prove you have a qualification then you don't have it.

So where do you get your farming license?

 

[BOD]

if you can't prove you have a qualification then you don't have it.

Yup. Please report Mors Kochanski for not having qualifications.

Come to think of it what qualifications does Ray have?