Hybrid cars - expensive to maintain?

[Paul_B]

Simple question as above.

We're all on here (I'm assuming) keen on being as environmentally responsible as we can. If we're using a vehicle anyway the least polluting is probably better. Electric won't suit us right now but we could buy a petrol hybrid within our budget. I'm just worried that it'll be expensive to keep on the road. Two drive systems to maintain, the regenerative charging too. Plus will your local ,trusted independent garage want to touch it?

What's your view?

 

[MrEd]

Dunno but I to am interested, I was considering a Toyota CR-H

 

[Paul_B]

Toyota website claims no more expensive because the electric system needs little work to maintain. Servicing is the same cost at a Toyota dealer their website says.

Batteries (supposedly last life of vehicle) cost 1 to 5.5k according to the Toyota website. They list the replacement cost of each hybrid car in their range online.

Braking mostly happens with the electric motor / regeneration system so brakes last longer. No timing belt and a few other expensive components apparently.

If you're interested Google a question about the UK cost to maintain a hybrid. Toyota link is high up in the list of links when I did it.

 

[homesicksteve]

On my second Prius.
The most reliable, low maintenance vehicle I've ever had.
Previous vehicles are the full range of standard saloon cars in diesel & a Cortina !

Eco-friendly ? Not sure due the the impact of making & disposing of batteries etc.
I think the 'green' credentials are, in part, marketing hype.

 

[Paul_B]

How about servicing and parts? More or less than non-hybrid cars?

It's fixing and maintaining cars that cost as they age. My old Astra was cheap to fix. Easy to work on and cheaper for parts (garage to work on not me). My seat is nearly the opposite. Labour for similar jobs cost more than the Astra. Parts too. Awkward to get at times. For example Halfords don't stock it's wiper blades and won't / can't order them. The only other motor factors in our area doesn't neither. Previous owner bodged a replacement. I went to seat dealer and paid a bit too much.

I'm thinking Toyota parts cost more than the Astra parts and the hybrid system means longer servicing times for labour costs.

 

[Janne]

Not sure about the environment friendly stamp on hybrid ( and purely electric) cars.
I have read that the majority of energy use and pollution is done before and during the manufacturing of all vehicles.

I have been very interested in getting a hybrid or electric car, but am afraid of the longevity, cost of repairs and second hand value.

What is the warranty of the battery pack on a Prius?

 

[homesicksteve]

A couple of filters & a gallon of 0W20 oil every 10,000 miles.
Coolant change & spark plugs every 100,000
No timing belt or clutch.

My first Prius, a 2010, got to 225,000
Only issues on the way : An expensive wheel bearing (approx £150)
Engine water pump (electronic, not belt driven) approx £600 !
Balanced against fuel saving, and clutch / timing belt cost, I'm well ahead.
Replaced it with a lower mileage version of same car 6 weeks ago...

I've never changed a traction battery, but £1400 for Toyota to swap,
or a guy in West London is doing recons for £500 fitted with 3 months warranty.

 

[Chainsaw]

Parts costs for the mechanical stuff don't seem to be any more expensive for a hybrid than for any other car of the same marque. In a toyota vs vauxhall fight the will always be more expensive due to volume etc. In saying that, from experience, the quality of parts is a bit better.
My batteries have a 5 year warranty (if you get it serviced at the dealer) not sure how enforceable that is these days... All they do to the electric drive system is check that the on board controller is happy and isn't detecting any issues, minor bit of the service.

You need to make sure your usage works for a hybrid to maximize the efficiency. The general greeness of it all is a bit of hype.
Short city trips - nope car doesn't warm up so electric drive reluctant to engage
longer city trips - perfect
Motorway commutes - 60 to 70mph - nope doesn't engage as going too fast
trunk commutes - 30 to 50 stop start - ideal

Bottom line, they will cost a bit more but will save you some money too, it probably balances out.

I think a small like 1 to 1.6 turbo petrol is the way to go these days, great economy and cheap to run. ok poke when needed but sips petrol when cruising.

 

[Janne]

One issue not many people talk about will affect people living in the colder parts of UK ( Scotland maybe)

The batteries have a very much lowered efficiency/mileage when cold. On some cars you can buy an extra 'battery warmer' when you order a new one, but that battery warmer will decrease the mileage a bit too.

Also what I think sounds like hard work is that you can not take the vehicle for any decent holidays. The charging time is long.
So short trips every day compared to a petrol car.
Applies not to hybrids of course1

 

[Paul_B]

My car commute is mostly 20 to 50mph with a few stop starts at lights but especially in Lancaster. That's for 20 to 30 minutes. I suspect hybrid a bit better than 2 litre diesel.

Looking at the Toyota website for hybrids they say it is possible to get 11 years warranty on batteries. It starts with 5 years as standard but increases each year. It's something like gaining another year for each year you get it serviced at a Toyota main dealership plus 1 year. It means a mechanical service plus the electric service including battery check.

Braking is another part that lasts longer on hybrids because the motor has regenerative charging which does most of the braking.

I fully accept no car is green. Most carbon emissions come from manufacture not use. Being in the sector myself I have insight into how much transporting of components goes on. It's ridiculous really. No matter what type of car more pollution comes from manufacture than use. However batteries aren't the worst part of cars and you can't change pollution on n manufacture. The only change is to reduce consumption. Buy economical over all aspects of use then keep it working well with his servicing and keep it on the road as long as possible. That amortises the manufacturing pollution over a longer period of time.

 

[Paul_B]

One issue not many people talk about will affect people living in the colder parts of UK ( Scotland maybe)

The batteries have a very much lowered efficiency/mileage when cold. On some cars you can buy an extra 'battery warmer' when you order a new one, but that battery warmer will decrease the mileage a bit too.

Also what I think sounds like hard work is that you can not take the vehicle for any decent holidays. The charging time is long.
So short trips every day compared to a petrol car.
Applies not to hybrids of course1

Not looking at plug in hybrids it eV just a hybrid that does not plug in. That however does not benefit from lower UK ved because it's not plug in Plug in hybrids are a little cheaper on that like fully evs.

Our biggest local employer is the university. They've added many charging points. They're always fully used because there's no parking charge on charging points so ppl plug in and leave it there all day to avoid paying for parking. That's a real issue if you really need to charge your EV. Legally we can't charge one at home because you can't extend a power cable over a carriageway or even footway. Being a terraced street with road parking that means no charging other than at university (partner works there) or motorway services in this area.

 

[Janne]

If the Governments wanted us to go Electric they should make it easier for the owners to be able to charge them.

as with so much, I think it is only "talk" from their side, as the revenues from fossil fuels is so large.

 

[Janne]

Todays vehicles are so much cleaner than in the past. The air in towns and cities is so much cleaner now than in the 60's and 70'!

You young guys can not imagine the smell and fumes in those days. Plus all British and Eastern European towns and cities smelt really, really bad from the coal fired heating systems.

 

[mousey]

My boss has got a Tesla , In theory it'll do 300-500 miles per charge [depending on temp speed. High speed @ 0c = 300, 45mph @ 10c = 500 - his previous diesel could do 800 on a full tank] and can be charged to something like 90% in an hour [or maybe half an hour - I wasn't really paying attention,*] on a high capacity charger. It can be charged through a normal UK 3 pin socket but it takes a little longer to charge.


He reckoned the costs are pretty much the same between electric / diesel / petrol, just the money is spent at different times during the cars life.


Still there has got to be a few to start pushing the way, people who get these things when it is still difficult to charge / service / repair / whatever until they become common enough for it to be feasible for us lowly plebs to get hold of the technology.



* I think it was half hour as he said it'd force him to take more stops on longer journeys, perhaps not a completely bad thing as 1/2 hr is reasonable time to get a coffee / snack what have you

 

[Chainsaw]

My car commute is mostly 20 to 50mph with a few stop starts at lights but especially in Lancaster. That's for 20 to 30 minutes. I suspect hybrid a bit better than 2 litre diesel.

Sounds a good fit for a hybrid

If the Governments wanted us to go Electric they should make it easier for the owners to be able to charge them.

as with so much, I think it is only "talk" from their side, as the revenues from fossil fuels is so large.

Scottish gov wants to dump diesel and petrol cars by 2032 (I think) I have a couple of friends who work in the power industry, they just laugh heads off when we talk about it. The power infratructure will need reworked from a lot of houses upwards... Imagine the power required for a multistorey full of electrics cars...!

Todays vehicles are so much cleaner than in the past. The air in towns and cities is so much cleaner now than in the 60's and 70'!

You young guys can not imagine the smell and fumes in those days. Plus all British and Eastern European towns and cities smelt really, really bad from the coal fired heating systems.

Yeah... not so young! I was in Glasgow when they deregulated buses (1986 or so??) Bus companies and everyone who could lay their hands on the oldest shabbiest most polluting buses in scotland ran them down Renfield Street in a bid to capture some share of the cash. You actually couldn't breath on that street it hung in the air like a blue/black fog, eyes nipped, the works. Also when flying back from San Francisco and the bay area, first thing I do when getting off the plane in Edinburgh is take a nice big gulp of fresh air. Yep at the airport but it's still tastes better!

 

[Paul_B]

In Norway our ski instructor said he needed to get a new car locally because he was nearing the end of the 18 month grace period for driving a UK car before needing to localise it. He said a small family car like a focus was twice UK price nearly because if import tax. A lot of people buy electric cars because they're exempt from this tax making them similar prices than ICE cars. Not sure if true but that's the way to increase eV use.

BTW there's loads of charging points around these days but you really only notice them if you've got am EV or plug in hybrid or if they're located right by the entrance of a service station with the charger right in the way of the footway (one like that on road in North Wales A5 iirc but could be a55, which has warning to ppl with a pacemaker to not stand near them but you have to walk past to get into the services).

As to charging it takes a lot less time if you use the charging stations with fast chargers. Newer EVs have higher capacity batteries that take faster charging. So on a long journey it kind of forces you to take the driving breaks that they recommend you to take anyway. Half an hour every two hours is not too bad (longer between charges bin reality but two hour breaks are advised).

 

[Janne]

Yes, in Norway the fully electric are exempt. Have several friends that own Teslas. Most have also another petrol car.
For longer trips.

It was in fact one of those friends that pointed out to me about the cold weather issues with the batteries. I only thought it was the classic Acid-Lead and some old fashioned cell batteries that were affected.

He got stuck halfway home from visiting Svolvaer (a town).

 

[Sundowner]

What will people with vans, caravans and camper vans and other trailers do? Makes me laugh

 

[snappingturtle]

Small, second hand petrol turbo is I think about as eco as it gets.

 

[Janne]

In reality, taking in account the extraction and production of the fuel, a small, turbo assisted Diesel of the latest gen is the most eco friendly one.

One liter of Diesel fuel is much more energy packed than Petrol, also easier to produce.
Also, as less Diesel fuel has to be burned/used per driven kilometer by the end user, less amount has to be transported to the fuel station.

The emissions are also incredibly low with the latest tech.
They talk about the danger to our health of the diesel fumes/particles, but those are produced by badly adjusted, worn engines.