Hunting knife used as bushcraft knife?
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ah, well, good question, huge question. the answer could go on a while......
i'll try to be brief.
there are hunting knives and hunting knives. modern day hunting knives are used post hunting, for processing game. earlier generations of hunting knives were big ferocious things used to administer the coup de grace, some resembled small swords, called hunting hangers. we'll stick with the modern variety for simplicity's sake.
typically, a modern hunting knife will have a smaller handle, sometimes a more highly figured or textured handle, such as stag antler. because these knives are meant to be handier, more dextrous for dismantling game. trophy hunters may want to preserve the skin, or the head. so making fine cuts becomes a higher priority. rabbit hunters might use a tiny neck knife. but generally these are mostly all low torque low force applications. apart from popping ball joints out of sockets....
a bushcraft knife is used for carving, splitting, feathersticks, these higher torque/force applications require a firmer grip, so the blades tend towards being slightly chunkier, with slightly burlier handles that are less tiring to hang onto. these handles will lack sharp edges and figuring, so they avoid making blisters when pushed hard for longer periods of time.
many hunting knives will have hollow grinds terminating in very thin edges. these thin edges can end up getting wrinkled when pushed into higher force woodworking applications.
but all that said, generalisations are generally rubbish. at the end of the day you need to judge each knife on its merits and what you want to do with it. so yeah, some hunting knives will make great bushcraft knives. some really really won't.
cheers, and.
i'll try to be brief.
there are hunting knives and hunting knives. modern day hunting knives are used post hunting, for processing game. earlier generations of hunting knives were big ferocious things used to administer the coup de grace, some resembled small swords, called hunting hangers. we'll stick with the modern variety for simplicity's sake.
typically, a modern hunting knife will have a smaller handle, sometimes a more highly figured or textured handle, such as stag antler. because these knives are meant to be handier, more dextrous for dismantling game. trophy hunters may want to preserve the skin, or the head. so making fine cuts becomes a higher priority. rabbit hunters might use a tiny neck knife. but generally these are mostly all low torque low force applications. apart from popping ball joints out of sockets....
a bushcraft knife is used for carving, splitting, feathersticks, these higher torque/force applications require a firmer grip, so the blades tend towards being slightly chunkier, with slightly burlier handles that are less tiring to hang onto. these handles will lack sharp edges and figuring, so they avoid making blisters when pushed hard for longer periods of time.
many hunting knives will have hollow grinds terminating in very thin edges. these thin edges can end up getting wrinkled when pushed into higher force woodworking applications.
but all that said, generalisations are generally rubbish. at the end of the day you need to judge each knife on its merits and what you want to do with it. so yeah, some hunting knives will make great bushcraft knives. some really really won't.
cheers, and.
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Some hunting knives are designed especially for skinning (rounded tip) or for opening up the animal (gut hook) or are designed to cut joints (thinned out tip) or have other features to make them more suitable for some tasks related specifically to hunting.
But usually most "normal" hunting knives, without such features, work fine as bushcraft knives. Hunting is a skill that is a normal part of bushcraft. So a good general bushcraft style knife should typically also be suitable to use as a hunting knife. And could be marketed as both a hunting knife or a survival/bushcraft knife for different market segments.
But usually most "normal" hunting knives, without such features, work fine as bushcraft knives. Hunting is a skill that is a normal part of bushcraft. So a good general bushcraft style knife should typically also be suitable to use as a hunting knife. And could be marketed as both a hunting knife or a survival/bushcraft knife for different market segments.
Sorry; cross post with Sargey, etc., 
Hunting is a sub set of Bushcraft. Generally hunting knives are less 'forgiving' of hard work, while hunting knives have the kind of edges I fret over using agin timber or with any torque, bushcraft ones really can take a lot of work regardless of the situation, yet still remain sound and very useable. Often nowadays the edges of hunting knives are very hard, which means they keep a really good edge for cutting into skin and flesh, but that snaps when used elsewhere. Buck knives for instance. I've lost count of how many I've seen broken, yet the hunting folks seem to rate them highly.
This past week my knife has been used to split elder branches for hearths, batton ash and beech, trim willows, cut up fungi, carve a firebow, scrape bark, pry off fomes and then cut it apart, carved a bit of soapstone, and make feathersticks.
Most hunting knives would have been both very uncomfortable to use for long in that kind of work, and I'd have been lucky not to ping bits out of the edge too.
cheers,
Toddy
Hunting is a sub set of Bushcraft. Generally hunting knives are less 'forgiving' of hard work, while hunting knives have the kind of edges I fret over using agin timber or with any torque, bushcraft ones really can take a lot of work regardless of the situation, yet still remain sound and very useable. Often nowadays the edges of hunting knives are very hard, which means they keep a really good edge for cutting into skin and flesh, but that snaps when used elsewhere. Buck knives for instance. I've lost count of how many I've seen broken, yet the hunting folks seem to rate them highly.
This past week my knife has been used to split elder branches for hearths, batton ash and beech, trim willows, cut up fungi, carve a firebow, scrape bark, pry off fomes and then cut it apart, carved a bit of soapstone, and make feathersticks.
Most hunting knives would have been both very uncomfortable to use for long in that kind of work, and I'd have been lucky not to ping bits out of the edge too.
cheers,
Toddy
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Closest I've had to a blade fail on a Buck knife was on my Buck Nobleman folder. I was practising bushcraft by the ocean and the wood I was making a trap with had some sand in it which took some micro chips out of the hollow ground edge, but hey, silicon will chip any steel no problem. That said, the Nobleman has been a storming little EDC.
The two hunting biased knives that get used for bushcraft are my Buck 119 fixed blade and Buck 110 Alaskan guide folder. Both hollow ground. Don't feel I ever get close to snapping them although the 110 has issues on strength of pivot amongst other things. In many ways I actually prefer a thin or hollow ground blade for bushcraft. (Opinel being a prime example here). Some bushcraft operations with a hunting knife require a bit more patience to spare the blade. An obvious one is cutting a divot in a hearth or boring a hole through.
For me knives have a lot of crossover in their uses and I vary which ones I carry. It keeps my interest in them.
The two hunting biased knives that get used for bushcraft are my Buck 119 fixed blade and Buck 110 Alaskan guide folder. Both hollow ground. Don't feel I ever get close to snapping them although the 110 has issues on strength of pivot amongst other things. In many ways I actually prefer a thin or hollow ground blade for bushcraft. (Opinel being a prime example here). Some bushcraft operations with a hunting knife require a bit more patience to spare the blade. An obvious one is cutting a divot in a hearth or boring a hole through.
For me knives have a lot of crossover in their uses and I vary which ones I carry. It keeps my interest in them.
The only 'hunting' knife I have left in my collection is this broken Buck 110..
I 'lost' the tip when picking bits of wood from a rotted fence for wee tinder.. and this was a replacement for one that the lock failed on! SO, clearly this hunting knife, that is also a folder is inferior for bushy type stuff as pretty much designated to light slicing jobs.
I've found most knives sold for hunting don't have the ideal blade shape and/or grind for my desired use i.e curved and hollow ground. I dislike hollow ground knives for anything other than slicing (I bite my apples, so..) and really have no need for so much belly on a knife as I'm not a big game hunter. So like most people of this island who keep what they need and use.. I like a straight blade with a spear point and a more appropriate/stronger grind.
All my early ventures into the woods were spent with 'hunting knives' and most of them with serrations. Something that I've learnt from experience is not to my taste or many people over the age of 15 or american..
I 'lost' the tip when picking bits of wood from a rotted fence for wee tinder.. and this was a replacement for one that the lock failed on! SO, clearly this hunting knife, that is also a folder is inferior for bushy type stuff as pretty much designated to light slicing jobs.
I've found most knives sold for hunting don't have the ideal blade shape and/or grind for my desired use i.e curved and hollow ground. I dislike hollow ground knives for anything other than slicing (I bite my apples, so..) and really have no need for so much belly on a knife as I'm not a big game hunter. So like most people of this island who keep what they need and use.. I like a straight blade with a spear point and a more appropriate/stronger grind.
All my early ventures into the woods were spent with 'hunting knives' and most of them with serrations. Something that I've learnt from experience is not to my taste or many people over the age of 15 or american..
Most of the hunting knives I have had or used have had a hollow grind. Not fond of hollow grinds, the only grind I can't get on with.
If you instead of considering if hunting knives in general could be marketed and sold as bushcraft knives, instead consider the opposite, if bushcraft knives can be marketed and used as hunting knives, then you will find that this is quite common. For instance most Mora knives are very well suitable for general bushcraft (perhaps excluding heavy tasks more suitable for an axe) as well as for many hunting tasks. And they are also often sold by hunting gear shops.
This also includes many high end robust knives like for instance many of the EnZo, Helle, EKA and Fällkniven knives and so on.
And of course there are many poor excuses for knives that are marketed as hunting, survival or bushcraft knives, to try to make you hand over some money.
This also includes many high end robust knives like for instance many of the EnZo, Helle, EKA and Fällkniven knives and so on.
And of course there are many poor excuses for knives that are marketed as hunting, survival or bushcraft knives, to try to make you hand over some money.
hazzarding a guess, one is made from metal that will take a full flat grind (or scandi I don't know the difference), and one will have a more robust double bevel edge made from a metal that will stay sharper longer and will be less deformable on hard things like dry wood. Whether one is stronger than the other for levering is probably down to the design manufacturing. Diamonds are hard but it doesn't mean they can't be crushed, and rubbers strechy but it doesn't mean it will not mishape. Buchery knives are probably made from stainless steel for hygene.
Of course you can use a hunting knife for bushcraft. Hunting and game prep is part of bushcraft too. Just because something is hollow ground instead of scandi doesn't make it unusable. You may need to be a little more careful with a narrower edge or tip, but learning patience is a good lesson bushcraft can teach. I think that's one of uncle Ray's regular lessons one should learn.
Think of how Sears describes his sheath knife constantly as 'the small hunting knife' in his book Woodcraft.
I've done quite a lot with folders like the buck 110 and even smaller versions, and at the other end of the scale, even a giant pig sticker bowie can perform fiddly tasks if handled with care. The will still feather a stick or make a tent peg if you do your part and take your time. The important thing is not to over burden them, and just like Sears, I use an axe when an axe is needed, rather than press a knife into service where it ought not to be.
I guess nowadays we have the convenience of all sorts of role specific knives from which to choose and we can get bogged down in those choices. I'll still grab my enzo trapper if I'm going to be doing woodwork, but I'd be happy enough with any of my 'hunting' knives for general bushcraft too.
Think of how Sears describes his sheath knife constantly as 'the small hunting knife' in his book Woodcraft.
I've done quite a lot with folders like the buck 110 and even smaller versions, and at the other end of the scale, even a giant pig sticker bowie can perform fiddly tasks if handled with care. The will still feather a stick or make a tent peg if you do your part and take your time. The important thing is not to over burden them, and just like Sears, I use an axe when an axe is needed, rather than press a knife into service where it ought not to be.
I guess nowadays we have the convenience of all sorts of role specific knives from which to choose and we can get bogged down in those choices. I'll still grab my enzo trapper if I'm going to be doing woodwork, but I'd be happy enough with any of my 'hunting' knives for general bushcraft too.
A lot of wisdom there Hibrion. A relatively short while ago - if you were to make a small mountain of all the different styles of knives invented for all their diverse uses, you would spend days even trying to find a dedicated 'bushcraft knife'. Yet it wouldn't stop you picking out something a little similar and doing successful bushcraft with patience and adaptability. Back in the frontier times perhaps they were doing just fine with an old hickory butchers knife or one of these perhaps
http://www.heinnie.com/Condor-Knives/Fixed-Blade-Knives/Hudson-Bay-Knife/p-130-979-5951/
And one hillbilly trapper in the Appalachian mountains seems to use an old Buck 110 for everything to do with bushcraft and hunting.
Don't missunderstand - I love many bushcraft knives. Many are very attractively made - but if I were to mod many of them they would have some kind of guard, a longer blade and around 1/8" thick. Just my own preference here.
http://www.heinnie.com/Condor-Knives/Fixed-Blade-Knives/Hudson-Bay-Knife/p-130-979-5951/
And one hillbilly trapper in the Appalachian mountains seems to use an old Buck 110 for everything to do with bushcraft and hunting.
Don't missunderstand - I love many bushcraft knives. Many are very attractively made - but if I were to mod many of them they would have some kind of guard, a longer blade and around 1/8" thick. Just my own preference here.
.........but 'back in the day' they didn't do the high end stay sharp but brittle steels that things like the bucks are made from
They did do very, very good steel though. They carried and used swords back then too. Try rattling two of the modern steel blades together and you'd need to duck the shrapnel.
I think Mr Adoby got it right
There's a reason we recommend Mora's to folks starting off, and it's not just 'cos they're cheap
have you seen what Mors can do with his ?
Guards get in the way when I'm working close, and they're a pain to use when battoning.
Ah, each to their own. If it works for you, fine. I don't hunt, but the neatest butcher I know uses a tiny finger shaped and sized wee knife to take apart everything from a grouse to a stag. It's an old iron knife too, he just strops it very carefully
cheers,
Toddy
They did do very, very good steel though. They carried and used swords back then too. Try rattling two of the modern steel blades together and you'd need to duck the shrapnel.
I think Mr Adoby got it right
There's a reason we recommend Mora's to folks starting off, and it's not just 'cos they're cheap
have you seen what Mors can do with his ? Guards get in the way when I'm working close, and they're a pain to use when battoning.
Ah, each to their own. If it works for you, fine. I don't hunt, but the neatest butcher I know uses a tiny finger shaped and sized wee knife to take apart everything from a grouse to a stag. It's an old iron knife too, he just strops it very carefully
cheers,
Toddy
Are we saying then a Buck knife is too brittle for bushcraft? I'm curious now, what with their sky high HT knowledge in the blade business?
It seems the Vikings had learned how to make great steel too, probably from our friends across the seas. But you had to pay mega bucks for it! Else you got a low end rip off that would snap in the heat of battle!
Unfortunately, the amazing Mora's very cheapness belies their awesome capability and functionality. But I know some people who will shun something good like that, because they want to be seen and associated with something that looks a lot more expensive. This is a truly sad aspect of human nature and alas, is by no means limited to knives. On the flip side its a saviour for the knife making industry! Otherwise Mora would become some kinda knife making monster.
Your butcher example well proves the idea of adaptability with a blade. I'd love to visit his shop and see him in action. He's a bit like my friend's poacher friend who took apart my road kill Roe deer in 20 minutes with a tiny old fashioned pen knife. N blood! No mess! No trace! Only a bag full of innards left open for the foxes in the night. A great skill and experience to witness.
It seems the Vikings had learned how to make great steel too, probably from our friends across the seas. But you had to pay mega bucks for it! Else you got a low end rip off that would snap in the heat of battle!
Unfortunately, the amazing Mora's very cheapness belies their awesome capability and functionality. But I know some people who will shun something good like that, because they want to be seen and associated with something that looks a lot more expensive. This is a truly sad aspect of human nature and alas, is by no means limited to knives. On the flip side its a saviour for the knife making industry! Otherwise Mora would become some kinda knife making monster.
Your butcher example well proves the idea of adaptability with a blade. I'd love to visit his shop and see him in action. He's a bit like my friend's poacher friend who took apart my road kill Roe deer in 20 minutes with a tiny old fashioned pen knife. N blood! No mess! No trace! Only a bag full of innards left open for the foxes in the night. A great skill and experience to witness.
From my experience, yes. The buck knives snap. I added it up, I've now seen nine broken ones. That's a lot of broken knives, and they didn't all belong to uncareful people. Samon says he's had two of them broken for him alone.
Lot of people out there love them though, so there must be something going for them
Have you ever been in the behind the scenes of a major armoury ? I have, and it's an unbelievably awesome collection of swords and daggers, and funny enough, very, very few broken blades.
To HT so that an edge keeps sharp without needing any work seems to leave it brittle.
Horses for courses, but I won't be buying or using one for any bushcrafting I do Fine for my kitchen devil type knives though.
Mora's are good knives, we've all got at least one but there's always another shiny that's just got something that appeals too and we admire good tools, we like to use good tools and if we can afford them, why not ?
I have heard it said that the neatest and quickest butchers on the planet are the Inuit, and nothing goes to waste.
Skill is skill, and to be emulated
cheers,
Toddy
Lot of people out there love them though, so there must be something going for them
Have you ever been in the behind the scenes of a major armoury ? I have, and it's an unbelievably awesome collection of swords and daggers, and funny enough, very, very few broken blades.
To HT so that an edge keeps sharp without needing any work seems to leave it brittle.
Horses for courses, but I won't be buying or using one for any bushcrafting I do
Fine for my kitchen devil type knives though.Mora's are good knives, we've all got at least one
but there's always another shiny that's just got something that appeals too and we admire good tools, we like to use good tools and if we can afford them, why not ?I have heard it said that the neatest and quickest butchers on the planet are the Inuit, and nothing goes to waste.
Skill is skill, and to be emulated
cheers,
Toddy
Yep, the Buck 110 is a dated, overweight, poorly made knife by all means. Buch make a few nice ones though, but the sloppy lock up, blade play and weakness of the 1010 model will never satisfy one of us guys.
I've had a buck 113, and it was a great little knife. Solid enough, well made and handsome. It faired alright at making tinder for my fires and didn't bust like it's predecessor (infact Buck's senior quality control manager sent me the 113 as an apology for the 2 poop 110's!). As you can see it falls into the smaller knife breed and certainly looks nice, but it had 420hc stainless steel like the 110 and a hunting specific grind so wasn't truly destined as a general purpose blade.
I also had this one for a while, the Buck 120..
Lovely big knife, but with little weight to it due to a hollow/synthetic handle. This made it less than capable at chopping for its size and the low carbon stainless used (not sure which) didn't hold the best edge for it's length. Again, a hollow grind and a lot of belly at the end made this one more of a bucthers knife than an actual woodsman knife,esspecially in places where you won't be chopping up large game daily..
So, my opinion stays the same.
I've had a buck 113, and it was a great little knife. Solid enough, well made and handsome. It faired alright at making tinder for my fires and didn't bust like it's predecessor (infact Buck's senior quality control manager sent me the 113 as an apology for the 2 poop 110's!). As you can see it falls into the smaller knife breed and certainly looks nice, but it had 420hc stainless steel like the 110 and a hunting specific grind so wasn't truly destined as a general purpose blade.
I also had this one for a while, the Buck 120..
Lovely big knife, but with little weight to it due to a hollow/synthetic handle. This made it less than capable at chopping for its size and the low carbon stainless used (not sure which) didn't hold the best edge for it's length. Again, a hollow grind and a lot of belly at the end made this one more of a bucthers knife than an actual woodsman knife,esspecially in places where you won't be chopping up large game daily..
So, my opinion stays the same.
I'd better bear this in mind when abusing my 3 Buck knives then. Many knife users I notice, do not rate knife blades that are a pig to sharpen in the field. I can imagine this would be bad news for an extended wilderness stay. The humble 1095 will keep its loyal followers I think.
Yes - for all things shiny (or coated), I must be one of the worst offenders! So glad we aren't just restricted to Mora's LOL. Very interested in your behind the scenes of a major armoury. Got any link or video on this as to where to go etc? Would much appreciate. I enjoy looking at all kinds of weaponry from around the world.
What do you think about carbon steel in the Kitchen? One of mine is a big chopper made in China. The other an 8" knife from Japan.
Many thanks.
Yes - for all things shiny (or coated), I must be one of the worst offenders! So glad we aren't just restricted to Mora's LOL. Very interested in your behind the scenes of a major armoury. Got any link or video on this as to where to go etc? Would much appreciate. I enjoy looking at all kinds of weaponry from around the world.
What do you think about carbon steel in the Kitchen? One of mine is a big chopper made in China. The other an 8" knife from Japan.
Many thanks.
I'm an archaeologist, we get to burrow into some amazing places
My kitchen knives are pretty simple; kitchen devil's, sabatiers and my MIL's truly ancient bread knife
I don't mind sharpening knives if they really need it, but tbh, 99% of the time mine are just stropped. I've seen too many knives 'sharpened' away to stilettos
It's a balance; keep a really sharp edge but a brittle tool, or so soft that it won't keep an edge at all. Bushcrafty knives seem to hit the balance very well indeed.
cheers,
Toddy
My kitchen knives are pretty simple; kitchen devil's, sabatiers and my MIL's truly ancient bread knife
I don't mind sharpening knives if they really need it, but tbh, 99% of the time mine are just stropped. I've seen too many knives 'sharpened' away to stilettos
It's a balance; keep a really sharp edge but a brittle tool, or so soft that it won't keep an edge at all. Bushcrafty knives seem to hit the balance very well indeed.
cheers,
Toddy
1095 is excellent steel, if they could get it in China they would use it to make Buck knives instead of 420j.
I would imagine that the shop wanting you to buy one of each also plays a part. I use my Frost Mora for hunting and my Buck 119 (designed with the assistance of Jesus himself, according to the leaflet that came with it from Buck. Not sure whether or not Jesus is a greater authority than Ray Mears), for bushcraft.
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I've got a Buck Vanguard. Brilliant knife, but I'd say the steel is a little soft for bushcraft tasks like cutting into wood. But it's not really designed for that. It's designed for bushcraft tasks like hunting (skinning etc.), so it doesn't have to be a hard steel. It was recommended to me by a Canadian hunter in the Rocky Mountains who tracks and kills grizzlies (epic) and it's served me well for years. Buck USA knives are (apparently) of a much higher quality than the ones manufactured in Asia. I was told to check they said USA on the blade.
I've got a Buck Omni Hunter too, and that's a great little folding knife. Neither holds its edge well when used for cutting wood though. I'd choose them for skinning, but I can skin almost as well with my Condor Bushlore, which is great for wood work too.
I've got a Buck Omni Hunter too, and that's a great little folding knife. Neither holds its edge well when used for cutting wood though. I'd choose them for skinning, but I can skin almost as well with my Condor Bushlore, which is great for wood work too.
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