How would ancient man have carried fire?

[willpower]

Hi, this question has been perplexing me for a while.

I have heard people say that they would not have bothered starting a fire at each new location but would have carried some embers from the last fire with them.

I vagually remember someone telling me that they might have used cramp balls but don't see how as they would have burned out too quick- unless maybe they wrapped them in something to reduce the amount of oxygen.

mmm... any one got any ideas??

 

[Toddy]

A glowing ember in a fomes fomentarius or a piptoporus betullina, both common birch fungus, can take a couple of hours to burn through. If you restrict the airflow a bit and surround it in damp moss it'll last even longer.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[lannyman8]

birch polymore was found chared on the famous ice man, they also rekon he was using it as a medicin too.........

reed mace is used to take fire from place to place, rolled up in birch bark then moss.....i think????????

 

[sandbender]

"...A glowing ember in a fomes fomentarius or a piptoporus betullina, both common birch fungus, can take a couple of hours to burn through. If you restrict the airflow a bit and surround it in damp moss it'll last even longer..."

I have done this and managed to keep an ember going for three to four hours, you could also carry it in a pot (clay or stainless steel) this keeps the airflow to a managable level. I remember Mors Kochanski talking about keeping mosquitoes at bay with a 'smudge' fire smouldering away in his cooking pot, presumably he could use that system to carry his fire around too.

 

[Toddy]

A quickly made clay thumb bowl would work I reckon, just moist enough to mould like plasticine and malleable enough to keep everything together and carryable

The smudge fire is interesting. You know our own Mugwort ? I was demonstrating prehistoric firemaking at Holyrood Park last Summer (legally, for H.S.'s Ranger service ) and I was using the mugwort as one of the components of the ember nests. Thing is, Mugwort's an old hearth herb, it clears out insect infestations in dwellings, clothing and the like. It gives off masses of pleasantly scented white smoke just before it does the burst-into-flames bit. Turns out it smells like the best hash I found myself surrounded with very eager hippies and bemused tourists for a while. That same mugwort (artemesia vulgaris) is effectively our native (and European) smudge. It really does discourage the midgies. Mugwort translates as midgewort....something effective against midgies and mosquitos, and it grows like a vigorous weed around here Doesn't seem to be so prolific where it's drier though.
The plant in my garden grows two metres tall, but the local hedgerow ones aren't far behind.

cheers,
M

 

[sapper1]

All the above would work but I can't resist............carefully.

 

[sandbender]

"...mugwort (artemesia vulgaris) is effectively our native (and European) smudge. It really does discourage the midgies..."

Interesting

All the above would work but I can't resist............carefully.

Indeed, in these dry times one can never be too careful.

 

[BOD]

a resin and fibre torch can go for up to 24 hours if properly tended

 

[forestwalker]

A large pot full of hot coals also works surprisingly well, even in winter. For the F. fomentarius I've carried them in birch bark "baskets" (a "round" from a standing rotten birch). Walked along swinging it like a little (but no doubt depraved) choirboy... No mosquitos by me!

Toddy; full inbox, tried to send a PM to you...

 

[Siberianfury]

horsehoof fungus, or a wrap made from miltiple layers of leather or hide containing very tightly compacted cramp balls, thats what i would do anyway.

 

[willpower]

Thanks for that, as always with this site, it's great to have loads of prompt feedback.

Have been mulling it over since original post and I guess the question of whether they would have needed to carry fire might have depended on fire lightening methods anyway.

Basically the point I'm getting at is I could understand why it would be advantageous to carry an ember if the only way of lighting it is FxF but if you have got something that will get a spark fairly easy (like iron pyrites) then surely you're better off just concentrating on keeping a decent dry bit of tinder down your deer skin y fronts.

On that note does anyone know if ancient man used fire by friction in this country anyway? Wikipedia says bow drill evidence was found in present day Pakistan 4-5000 bc but did it ever spread to this country- or Europe?. Suppose there must have been some reliable form for making fire for the bronze age to have occured and once the Iron age came along we would have worked out that whacking a bit of iron against an object like flint created a spark.

Doh- think I am creating more questions but I find it really fascinating.

P.s-Will try and get round to wrapping some cramp balls and birch pp in bark and moss just to see how long it is possible to keep ember going.

pps- A herbalist friend told me Mugwort can be used in a kind of herbal cigarette- don't think it is mind altering but apparently pleasant to smoke!

 

[sandbender]

"...On that note does anyone know if ancient man used fire by friction in this country anyway? Wikipedia says bow drill evidence was found in present day Pakistan 4-5000 bc but did it ever spread to this country- or Europe?. Suppose there must have been some reliable form for making fire for the bronze age to have occured and once the Iron age came along we would have worked out that whacking a bit of iron against an object like flint created a spark.

Not so much flint to be found in the parts of Scotland I used to live in, there is evidence that a trade in flint exisited with flints being moved around continental Europe.

Fire by friction was being used by the San Bushmen over 30,000 years ago so it isn't a long shot to suppose that that the folks in Stone age/Iron age britain were making fires that way too. One thing to bear in mind is that these folks didn't have a pack of digestives in their rucksacks to give them a boost when they needed one, the energy lost to making a fire with a bow drill is something they would have avoided if they could. If they could carry their fire with them, they would have. If some bloke from stone age Dorset had turned up with some 'magic sparking stones' they'd have used those too.

 

[The Big Lebowski]

This is an interesting thread... Good reading thanks.

I didn't realise fire by friction was at-least 30,000 years old. thats impressive by any standards. Also relating to the energy lost regarding bow drills, I can testify through a bad choice of wood, or possibly the enviroment (winter/damp) and repeated attempts to get a coal, I pysically felt sick for a short period after giving up... That must have been a fair ammount of calories just 'trying' to make fire, as a luxury. I had alternative modern choices to fall back on.

Regards, al.

 

[Toddy]

We have good evidence (burnt out hearth boards) from wetland sites in Scotland for fire by friction from at least the neolithic. Burnt pine splints for light were found too.

cheers,
M