How to process elm bark for elm bast?

[Hartung]

Hi,

Today I harvested a big amount of elm bark. Could anybody please help me out by explaining how to process the bark correctly in order to get out the elm bast.

Thanks for your help!

Hartung


Pic of the bark: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Hartung/Elm/Ulmenbast.jpg?t=1167937498

 

[fred gordon]

Hi,

Today I harvested a big amount of elm bark. Could anybody please help me out by explaining how to process the bark correctly in order to get out the elm bast.

Thanks for your help!

Hartung


Pic of the bark: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Hartung/Elm/Ulmenbast.jpg?t=1167937498

Try putting 'Elm Bast' into Google. I just did and there seems to be quite a bit of info there.

 

[Hartung]

Try putting 'Elm Bast' into Google. I just did and there seems to be quite a bit of info there.

That’s the first thing I did before asking my question here at bushcraft.

 

[Dave Budd]

I don't know about elm bast, but assuming it works the same as Lime bast, i processed a load a few years ago.

I stripped the bark off in narrow strips (<1") having first scraped off the outer bark as far as i could. Them half of it I tied loosely in a bundle and left in a stream for a week (as per some books) and the other half i put into smaller bundles and rolled them into loose coils (tied in place with string) then I boiled the coils in a woodash and water solution for a few hours.

The stream stuff was partly retted and stank, also lost soome of it downstream. I composted this lot in the end

The boiled in lye was all good. I took it out and rinsed off thoroughly in the stream to remove the lye, then hung it up to dry. some of it got left to dry out over night but most of it i rubbed between my hands to seperate the fibres and remove the last of hte outer bark that i had missed.

The dried out bundles were a little more difficult ot seperate the fibres from, but not impossible. The still wet fibres came away freely. Oh and rewetting the dry ones didn't help

The reason I did this was that during my MA (Experimental Archaeology) I carried out some breaking strain experiments with a variety of natureal fibre cordages. Lime bast, honeysuckle bark and sedge. choices were dictated by what was about on campus at the time, otherwise stinging nettle would've been there too.

 

[Biddlesby]

I had a lot of success using a stream. I left it with all the outer bark on, in strips, tied to a rock in a fast-flowing steam for about a month. The layers just peeled off, and I boiled them in hardwood ash.

 

[WhichDoctor]

I don't know about elm bast, but assuming it works the same as Lime bast, i processed a load a few years ago.

I stripped the bark off in narrow strips (<1") having first scraped off the outer bark as far as i could. Them half of it I tied loosely in a bundle and left in a stream for a week (as per some books) and the other half i put into smaller bundles and rolled them into loose coils (tied in place with string) then I boiled the coils in a woodash and water solution for a few hours.

The stream stuff was partly retted and stank, also lost soome of it downstream. I composted this lot in the end

The boiled in lye was all good. I took it out and rinsed off thoroughly in the stream to remove the lye, then hung it up to dry. some of it got left to dry out over night but most of it i rubbed between my hands to seperate the fibres and remove the last of hte outer bark that i had missed.

The dried out bundles were a little more difficult ot seperate the fibres from, but not impossible. The still wet fibres came away freely. Oh and rewetting the dry ones didn't help

The reason I did this was that during my MA (Experimental Archaeology) I carried out some breaking strain experiments with a variety of natureal fibre cordages. Lime bast, honeysuckle bark and sedge. choices were dictated by what was about on campus at the time, otherwise stinging nettle would've been there too.

Wow thats grate :You_Rock_ , I've never seen a way of processing lime bark other than leaving it in a stream for ages (there's no-wear round here that I could leave something like that with the expectation of it still being there the next day, let alone a month ). I'll have to try that.

 

[Hartung]

Thanks Dave for that hands on experience and detailed description. Sounds very interesting. I’ll give the boiling a try.

I also found the following descriptions on the web. Not very detailed but all of them tend to boiling the bast.

The Menomini gathered the bark, boiled it, and used it for making fiber bags and large storage baskets
http://www.plants.usda.gov/plantguide/doc/cs_ulru.doc


The slippery elm bark is gathered and boiled and used in the same manner as basswood bark for making fiber bags, large storage baskets, etc.

Basswood (Tilia americana L.), "wexkop'." Basswood bast or bark fiber was and is the ready cordage for the Menomini. Balls of the twine are kept in every Menomini household, for tying, sewing, or for weaving bags. The women make this twine and go to the forest to gather the raw material. Saplings are peeled in the spring when the cambium is active and it is readily separable. A long strip of bark is peeled off and the outer cortex is slightly cut. Then the bark is bent at the cut until it projects far enough to get the teeth fastened on the outer rind. This is then pulled off and thrown away. It is now ready for use, except dividing it down to the desired size. Should a ball of twine be wanted, the gathered bark is coiled and bound to keep it in a coil, then boiled in lye water. When the fibers begin to spread, it is taken out, dried and seasoned. Then it is cut three feet long and rolled to break up the fibrovascular bundles. Finally, it is twisted and joined by the Menomini woman against her shin and between her palms. Basswood fiber is used widely in many arts. Matting and baskets, fish-nets and nets for snowshoes are made from it.
http://www.manataka.org/page75.html

Préparation des fibres (Canadien source, couldn't find the English text.
Mais revenons à nos rubans d'écorce. Ceux-ci sont ensuite entreposés jusqu'au moment où l'on en a besoin. Il faut alors les bouillir durant un jour et demi dans de l'eau contenant de la cendre de bois. La solution alcanine contenue dans ces cendres assouplit la fibre et éloigne la sève qui rendrait l'écorce rigide et cassante. Ensuite, on retaille les fibres à l'aide d'un couteau, jusqu'à obtenir l'épaisseur désirée.

[The text speaks of boiling the fibres in lye water for 1,5 days]
http://www.territoire.org/FRANCAIS/CREAF/foretcreative/cordages.html

 

[Hartung]

I found a pics of Lindenbast (limebast) after two month of soaking in water. The fibres easily split and can be torn apart.

Do elm fibres split this same manner?

Any other remarques?

Thanks for your help

 

[Dave Budd]

The photo looks jsut like the bark that I did in the lye solution, I suspect the stream didn't work for me becuase it was too slowq and not in there loong enough. But I'm an impatient bugger and prefer three hours to three weeks!

I wouldn't know if elm will do the same as lime, but I guess it may do. try it and find out! I think any tree will produce fibres, after all it's the cambium (bast, inner bark, call it what ya like) that is seperating, coming off in growth rings like the rings in the wood itself.

my bast came form branches no more than 2" diameter, just coz of what I had access to. I've been meaning to try a more mature section of bark for comparison, but never got around to it. the branch fibres gave me about 6 layers, the innermost ones being the finest and most durable. The closer to the outer bark the fibres were, the coarser and less pliable they became. I made one thread (two ply twist) form the inner bark that when measured with micrometers was only 0.7mm in diameter! I didn't check the breaking strain on that one, but it was about the same (maybe better) than linen thread of the same diameter. Also lime bast threads are not significatly weakened by soaking.

 

[Toddy]

Good thread

I know that lye water is effective, I know it has a long history of use, but I'm also aware that it can significantly weaken fibres if used to excess. It does make a beautiful job of breaking out fibres without the breakages that can be found in pounded or crushed stems/ barks though and it does limit the damage done by the de-oxygenation of water caused by retting barks and fibre bundles.

Has anyone done a pH test of what's suitable, safe to use though? Timings would be good too.

atb,
Toddy

p.s. By pH it doesn't need to terribly technical, I was thinking if the egg floats kind of thing............what kind of egg though........hen, duck?????

M

 

[Hartung]

Hi friends,

I just switch in to thank you once more for your help. I will now continue most of my work concerning elm bast on paleoplanet as this is kind of a “home forum” for me. Come over and have a look. There is a very interesting link concerning lindenbast and I’ve added some pics of elmbast.

http://p081.ezboard.com/fpaleoplanet69529frm15.showMessage?topicID=313.topic

Hartung

 

[Dave Budd]

it might be worth pointing out that you should NOT use aluminium pots for boiling up lye. It eats the aly away, so much so that I know a man who ended up with a gallon of lye all over his kitchen floor after boiling up some bones!

 

[Hartung]

You are right Dave. The first birch bark tar that I made was in an aluminium pot. That was a bad idea ….. Aluminium is bad for “primitives” like us