How to encourage diversity in bushcraft

[Erbswurst]

@Broch
May be. But before we called it hiking, wild camping and survival. Or Scouting.

And what I mean is, that surely a lot of people still do it like before and have no idea, what "bushcraft" could be.
And if you don't know the word, you don't find the forum.

The best German English internet dictionary, still translates bushcraft with Survival, although there are several German bushcraft forums which are also called like this, and so on.

They even shortened recently the list of translations:

dict.cc | bushcraft | Übersetzung Deutsch-Englisch

Übersetzungen für den Begriff 'bushcraft' im Englisch-Deutsch-Wörterbuch

m.dict.cc

 

[Toddy]

In the UK Ray Mears promoted the word Bushcraft and it pretty much became the standard.

Schools teaching outdoor skills generally use both Bushcraft and Survival in their literature.
Though there are crossovers, the mindset is often very different.

 

[Broch]

@Broch
May be. But before we called it hiking, wild camping and survival. Or Scouting.

And what I mean is, that surely a lot of people still do it like before and have no idea, what "bushcraft" could be.
And if you don't know the word, you don't find the forum.

The best German English internet dictionary, still translates bushcraft with Survival, although there are several German bushcraft forums which are also called like this, and so on.

They even shortened recently the list of translations:

dict.cc | bushcraft | Übersetzung Deutsch-Englisch

Übersetzungen für den Begriff 'bushcraft' im Englisch-Deutsch-Wörterbuch

m.dict.cc

Again, no. What we are currently calling 'bushcraft' I would have called, in my youth, wilderness skills and crafts. Camping, hiking, and even scouting, were just outdoor activites where I would use my 'wilderness skills'. But, in the UK we had the benefit of Uncle Ray who popularised the term 'bushcraft' in the early 90's and I would be surprised if a large percentage of the UK population wouldn't recognise the word.

There are orders of magnitude more people practicing 'bushcraft skills' in the UK than participate on this forum - I don't actually think it needs promoting or pushing. Just because they don't use the same terminology (which even we can't agree on) doesn't mean they're not doing it.

Edit: cross post with Toddy

 

[Erbswurst]

OK, if you are sure that the word is so popular, I simply have to believe it.
It's your language.

 

[Broch]

Apparently, the word first entered the English language in around 1875!

It took a while to bubble to the surface

 

[C_Claycomb]

Worth remembering that its hard to know what race members on an internet forum have if they do not post lots of pictures. There is an optional icon for age, and gender usually comes out over time, if not from the screen name or avatar chosen.

The people we see at the Moot often don't post much here now. There seems to be almost two memberships. The Moot attendance is definitely weighted towards middle age white blokes. No shortage of families, but not so many ladies come on their own and those that have come don't come as regularly as the blokes that come on their own.

It is interesting to debate why we see certain demographics appear more interested in bushcraft, but I don't think there is much value in trying to think of ways to promote bushcraft to different demographics. Promoting bushcraft to everyone, great. Trying to make special effort to promote it more to girls, or Chinese people, or folk whose families came from the Indian subcontinent....too much like social engineering.

My experience with equality/diversity was with trying to get students interested in engineering.

I worked with a scheme to get A-Level students interested, it was an extra program and we had to pick six from about 15 applicants. We were being scrupulously fair, didn't look at names, didn't care about gender, just wanted to pick the six best. Got down to the last pick, a choice between two and as we were leaning one way the teacher said we should pick the other because otherwise we would have only one girl on the team. So we made a pick based on gender. At the end of the program we had to go to an exhibition day. The nearest venue, a university, only allowed us to come because some other team had more girls, so balanced our team. Without that we would not have been able to go because we didn't have a 50/50 split. During the course we had the students visit our site, get shown around and get to talk to other engineers. We made the particular effort to have two women engineers come to talk about their careers, vs one bloke. Afterwards I asked all three what they had thought of the group. The two women remarked how disinterested and bored the girls had appeared. At the end of the course, two out of six said they were interested in a career in engineering, and those were the two that had already taken engineering or design/tech GCSEs.

So, you can "positively" discriminate and do everything you can to make something interesting, with the pick of people who volunteer to find out about it, and still not generate deep interest when it wasn't there before.

All I think we can do is be welcoming and encouraging to everyone.

 

[Broch]

I will come clean and say the reason my missus doesn't enjoy group 'bushcraft' meets is because of the language and general 'male banter' that invariably occurs around the camp fire. OK. it's easy to say 'if you can't handle the heat ....' but we are talking about why some people might feel excluded.

 

[Erbswurst]

What I think all the time in between here is the following:

Somebody who is already so good integrated in Britain that he has time for hobbies, and time to play in internet forums, surely will be able to write a pretty good English, especially with a smartphone autocorrect support.

We don't see how the members here look like! Perhaps we have some members who immigrated to Britain.

Perhaps we just assume that Brits look like Brits have to look, but the truth is perhaps that our members look different than we assume?

 

[Van-Wild]

Crikey, this has grown arms and legs hasn't it........

 

[C_Claycomb]

It would be nice if we had more replies and perspectives from folk who are not middle age to retired white males.

It would be very interesting to hear from @ASIANGIRLINTHEWILD, even though she isn't in the UK.

Without actually hearing from people, all the rest of us can really do is guess at reasons why.

Some years back I visited the Bushcraft Show and there were a lot more people and more diversity than we see at the Moot

 

[Silverclaws2]

I agree if you're talking about increasing diversity from people with knowledge or skills. Most people, including ethnic minorities, live in cities or their hinterlands and do not possess those skills. Most people do not have unique skills or knowledge in this area which is why I said that increasing diversity for diversity sake is illusory. I also don't think anyone here is advocating to limit the bushcraft "franchise".

The same issue exists in America related to the outdoors generally. Certain ethnic groups prefer some activities over others and also live in different areas which are more suited to outdoor pursuits.

One never knows what knowledge and skills folk have until they are given a chance to shine and I am careful with the use of that word '' most'' because unless one has data to back up a description of '' most '' what invariably exists is an opinion. And I have come across folk that believed they had nothing to offer only to find they do, to have observed such folk when they realise they are not as 'useless' as they thought and yes folk that live towns and cities to oft have practices they have picked up from their parents of which might have been taught to their parents by their own parents, some of which might have origins in other countries.

But what skills does one seek to seek unique skills for I am sure everyone's bushcraft is different.

 

[Silverclaws2]

I don't know for sure, but regarding the forum members, there could also be a reason for low diversity here, that the word "bushcraft" is simply unknown.

I discovered that word approximately just 5 years ago!

I was researching about bivvy bags, found a video by Paul Kirtley and discovered the whole bushcraft thing in the internet.

Before I called it simply hiking and camp craft, scouting perhaps.

I don't think that everybody who likes wild camping, hiking, survival training, canoeing and fishing knows, that we nowadays suddenly call traditional camping with military surplus equipment "bushcraft".

In my day what we now call bushcraft was through Scouting called backwoodsmanship and/or pioneering and later bivvying, for myself to have questioned the word 'bushcraft' when I first came upon it, to think Britain doesn't have a bush so how may we 'bushcraft' in Britain. But to observe, the young of whom are the future are comfortable with the word to use it to describe well what I knew as backwoodsmanship and pioneering, so be it, it's just a word to describe a range of activities folk find enjoyment in.

But, this thing about lack of diversity in bushcraft may be part of a bigger picture like for instance;


Black and Asian people rarely visit rural Britain. Raekha Prasad examines why - and reports on moves to make them more welcome

 

[Laurentius]

Again, no. What we are currently calling 'bushcraft' I would have called, in my youth, wilderness skills and crafts. Camping, hiking, and even scouting, were just outdoor activites where I would use my 'wilderness skills'. But, in the UK we had the benefit of Uncle Ray who popularised the term 'bushcraft' in the early 90's and I would be surprised if a large percentage of the UK population wouldn't recognise the word.

There are orders of magnitude more people practicing 'bushcraft skills' in the UK than participate on this forum - I don't actually think it needs promoting or pushing. Just because they don't use the same terminology (which even we can't agree on) doesn't mean they're not doing it.

Edit: cross post with Toddy

Yes I don't recall the word bushcraft before Ray Mears, the bush was a place full of kangeroos and didgeridoos. Horace Kephart's famous tome was called "camping and woodcraft" as I recall, woodcraft would be a more familiar term before and to my my mind more applicable here in the UK where we don't have a lot of kangeroos and didgeridoos.

 

[TeeDee]

Richard Graves

The Ten Bush Craft Books by Richard Graves are considered classic texts, unfortunately they have been out of print for many years. They ar...

www.ausbushcraft.com

Richard Graves pre-dates Mr Mears by quite some time.

 

[Broch]

Agreed, I was really referring to the use of the word in the UK; 1875 is even before Graves' time

 

[TeeDee]

Agreed, I was really referring to the use of the word in the UK; 1875 is even before Graves' time

It indeed may have entered common parlance in that year but was it attributed to the activities we are engaged with?

I was merely offering up Mr Graves work as I think ( no proof ) it would have inspired / led Uncle Ray on his quest as a youngster.

 

[C_Claycomb]

View attachment 65031

Richard Graves

The Ten Bush Craft Books by Richard Graves are considered classic texts, unfortunately they have been out of print for many years. They ar...

www.ausbushcraft.com

Richard Graves pre-dates Mr Mears by quite some time.

Indeed. My copy shows first published 1972.
Mors Kochanski's original book was titled Northern Bushcraft, intended to be the northern counterpart to the Graves book. Earliest date I have seen 1987.
Ray Mears' first book, written when he was but 26 years old, was the Survival Handbook 1990, which used the terms survival, woodcraft and woodlore.

 

[MrEd]

I have suffered from a lot of sexism in my work over the years, particularly when I worked in forestry. So many stories, it's hard to pick one, but the one that made me angry was after getting my city and guilds, i applied for a job at a particular place.
Not only did they get my name completely wrong, but i was told that if i did a secretarial course aswell, i could apply for a job in the office!
I had not spent my time putting up with all the sexist attempts at making me fail and give up, and overcoming them, often going home in tears, (i was the first woman to take the course at that training establishment) to end up in an office!
I have a hundred stories about how "this job was not for women"
My best moment though gave me great satisfaction.
The land rover we used for transport had broken down, all the lads were crowded under the bonnet trying to sort the problem with no luck, and I was left to just sit there.
Listening to them wondering why no fuel was entering the carb, my brain started working and I said check the fuel line. I was told to shut up as they knew what they were doing.
Well I watched them struggle for ages, as the fuel ran out of the tank under the vehicle. The fuel pipe had come away from the tank and it was leaking all over the floor, they were too engrossed to notice.
So I got underneath and fixed it back on, and said try it now. After a few minutes it burst into life. What did you do they all asked incredulously.
So i told them, and showed them the fuel puddle. They were all very abashed and i got grief all day because I'd solved their problem so easily.
I can tell stories till the cows come home, from the petty hiding of boots to my reliant being put in a ditch for a laugh.
But I got through, and still love the woods,... even if my opinion of some particular men is somewhat tarnished!
I take everyone as they come and dont pre judge. When it's happened to you, it makes you think twice. If you've sailed through life with non of this sort of thing happening to you, it's easy to ignore it. Hence now all this soul searching about how to be inclusive.
One should not even need to ask . Sadly many are now having to do so because they realy never had a reason to consider it before, and are at a loss.

I am sorry, I call BS.

I own a Land Rover 90, 31 years old it is now.
It is NEVER that easy a fix

 

[Woody girl]

I am sorry, I call BS.

I own a Land Rover 90, 31 years old it is now.
It is NEVER that easy a fix

Call it what you like, you sound just like those fellas on the course.
Yes, I left some detail out, or the post would have gone on for ever, but it's quite true.
As you were not there, I dont think you can call BS. But I'm willing to let you try and prove it.
This is typical of the attitude I had then. I did think things might have improved.
Yes I can do mechanics, I have rebuilt engines many times they worked afterwards, and I didn't have any spare bits left over either.
Basic principle, simply put,
1, Engine not firing
2, Check spark plug for spark, no spark, replace plug. If still no spark it's likely the HT lead.
3, Good spark, ? check carb,
4, No fuel comming through check fuel tank. Full of fuel, ? check fuel line.
Possible problems are blockage, pump malfunction(depending on vehicle) or disconnect.
The problem was a disconnect.
Ergo, fix that, and engine fires after pumping through some fuel and that's very simply it in a nutshell.
Basic mechanics.
And from where I was sat on the ground I could see the fuel leaking and the fuel pipe hanging down, so it wasnt a hard deduction as to the problem

 

[Laurentius]

View attachment 65031

Richard Graves

The Ten Bush Craft Books by Richard Graves are considered classic texts, unfortunately they have been out of print for many years. They ar...

www.ausbushcraft.com

Richard Graves pre-dates Mr Mears by quite some time.

Bushwacker, bushranger, bush tucker, and Skippy the bush kangaroo. I rest my case the term is Australian not native to the UK, we have no bush or outback to speak of.