How drop a point ?

[Chance]

I hope you'll excuse this post: I have done a search, and found the sticky, but may not have spent long enough to find this question the first time that it was asked.

It's something that's bugged me from the first time I saw a "bushcraft" blade - why is the point generally dropped all the way to spear ? I can think of a few reasons, but would like to hear from the experts without having to create a user account on BB.
1) Personal preference
2) Personal preference
3) I get it, it's personal preference (and I acknowledge that there's little consensus on the word bushcraft itself)
4) A bushcraft blade is a multi-tool that can also be used as a wedge, lever or... spear
5) The tip is more pointed, for detailed work
6) Having the tip on the axis makes for more symmetrical control
7) [edit] Something to do with skinning

I'm hoping that one of the knifemakers, or users, out there can point to a time when they said, "You know what would make this Bowie/Wilkinson/Victorinox blade easier to use around camp...".
It's happened at least once, looking at the evolution in the choice of a television woodsman: (MOD to) Wilkinson Sword to Alan Wood. But why ?

 

[Asa Samuel]

The reasons I would want a spear shaped point are that It would make it easier to controll the point as it is more in the middle of the blade, you can use it as a scrwdriver it times of need (shh!) and I also find that as you said the tip is more pointy so it's better for detailed work.

Plus I like the look. I'm sure other people will have different reasons though.

 

[sam_acw]

I find a more dropped point to be better for hollowing things out.

 

[Chance]

I find a more dropped point to be better for hollowing things out.

Is that because of the shape of the tip (pointier), or the location of the tip (on the centreline) ?


(thanks for the considered answers, by the way - I'd feared opening the floodgates)

 

[Asa Samuel]

I also find that making little indents (like in the hearth wood for using drills) easier, more controll on the twisting motion. I think that's because of the location of the tip again.

 

[Prawnster]

I also find that making little indents (like in the hearth wood for using drills) easier, more controll on the twisting motion. I think that's because of the location of the tip again.

Yes I find that too. I can twist the blade at a given angle and cut an even, symmetrical hollow with a spear point better than say a drop point hunter style.

 

[sam_acw]

I'm not sure why, maybe the centre line of the blade is more controllable, maybe less belly before the tip helps. I really don't know.

 

[British Red]

A true 50% drop (spear) means that you can bore a much more controlled hole - useful in tree tapping, fire drill hearths, etc.

Not actually somthing I want in a skiiner though.

A long deep pointed spear gives strength at the choil and a fine narrow area at the point which is useful in making fine cuts around the anus etc on smaller prey.

Red

 

[caliban]

looking at the evolution in the choice of a television woodsman: (MOD to) Wilkinson Sword to Alan Wood. But why ?

Hi Choice! Would you care to elaborate on that? Which woodsmen and which knives are they associated with? I'm not trying to catch you out or anything, that's just a really interesting point.

Cheers and welcome to BCUK mate!

 

[Chance]

Hi Choice! Would you care to elaborate on that? Which woodsmen and which knives are they associated with? I'm not trying to catch you out or anything, that's just a really interesting point.

Cheers and welcome to BCUK mate!

Thanks for the welcome. It's been enjoyable so far, trying to avoid being caught out.

Ray Mears helped to design a survival knife for Wilkinson Sword; somewhere on the evolutionary tree between the standard-issue MOD and the type of thing sported by Rambo. It was plagued somewhat by material problems.
More recently, he commissioned a series of knives by Alan Wood.

He's not the only one. Bear Grylls has an evolving design of his own; which doesn't yet seem to have been imitated to the same extent as the Woodlore.

If I could think of some other British television woodsman, I'm sure that they'd also be associated with (being overly cynical) merchandise. Although not TV personalities, Mors and Lars have their own favourites. As I hinted in points 1-3, each to his own.

 

[Chance]

Not actually somthing I want in a skinner though.

Higher tip ? Deeper curve ? More depth ? None of the alongside ?

 

[British Red]

On a skinner (as opposed to a butchery knife) I like to have a deeper curved belly for that sweep to separate skin from tissue.

Bernie Garlands buscrafter offers a good compromise in this respect - much curvier than many bushies but not as curved as my dedicated skinners

Red

 

[Templar]

The "AW" blade shape is a good compromise bade for general use around camp, an MOD type blade is just a short tree whacker, the wilkinson sword one from memory was to be a chopping tool with some other features, and the progression I believe comes from an evolution in knowledge and skills, the theory being that the better your skills the smaller the blade you need to do the same job... because when you start out the blades people generally use are big and heavy, the belief being that the big blade will do all the jobs, as you progress you start to see that the blade you carry is simple a tool to create other tools and not "the" tool...

Just my two cents...
Karl...

 

[Chance]

... the better your skills the smaller the blade you need to do the same job...

Copy that: I'll admit to using a smaller blade more often than my AW or billhook, but would hesitate to claim skills as the reason.
Just curious about the 'bushcraft' (Woodlore, etc.) shape, and the reasons for it.

 

[Templar]

No worries mate, my BC blade is a Bark River Northstar, its not everyones favourite, but it works for me since I have a small hand size, and I do believe it's smaller than the AW, I tend to use my stockman folder a lot more than my Northstar because I mostly do small things around camp, my fixed blade is more for the what if stuff or when I need to do some heavier cutting when trap making or the like.

As for the skills statement, I didnt come up with it, I do believe I picked it up here in another thread a while ago and it just rang true with me ever since, in the end I think it just comes down to right tool for you and the job at hand...

I think the shape comes from the most common jobs we do around camp, etc. look at those and they give you some of the answers... cutting harth boards (narrow point to "drill") cleaning small game (curved spear) while not perfect it works well as a Bowie point would and does tend to gouge into the body cavity, flatish straight spine for batoning along with the straightish cutting edge...

In the end I feel that the blade shape that is agreed by many to be "the" BC blade shape is influanced by our Scandinavian bretherin, the traditional knives associated with BC are Moras, and various Sami style blades, we use these because they are cheap and straight forward designs which are easy to maintain, we then get better and invest in better blades, and since we are used to a particular style we tend to stick to it, my observation is that our US Cousins tend to like the Bowie style, UK and Europeans tend to like the AW / Mora styles, we Colonials tend to like what ever we can get our hands on as we are infuenced by two different schools of thought...

We all agree that the question of shape, size and material is a very personal one, and like a lot of hobbies we all have our style & fashion guru's, the AW design being popular with followers of one school, the high tech style with another, the Military style with another group... we buy the design that gives us the greatest mental comfort just because so 'n so uses that shape etc... the question of shape is almost as personal as the method of carry, each one has a preference... I could go on and on but I won't...

Karl

 

[Chance]

(agree with the statement, just wouldn't claim skills for myself)