How did pre-Roman tribes light fire?

[Tor helge]

They probably used older methods (friction, pyrite and flint).
In roman times (Norway) steel was expensive and rare. A "ildtein" (fire awl) and a belt stone (quartzite) was used to produce fire. An awl need little steel and is easy to produce.
As mentioned by others the steel as we know it came into use a little before the viking age. This coresponds with increased production of iron and steel in the period.

Just because you have a tecnology or access to materials doesn`t neccesary mean that they are commonly used. Several factors are at play.
150 years ago it was quite common for children in Norway to go to neighbouring farms to borrow fire although matches and flint and steel was both known.

 

[Stringmaker]

Fire by friction has an incredibly long provenance, fire using pyrites works, but again, find pyrites. Wood we have in plenty, and better yet the friction dries out it's own coal. That we have fireboards/hearths of several thousand years old in Scotland kind of demonstrates more than clearly that the method was commonplace. They're organic, everything organic rots in our temperate climate, that these were preserved in quite specific anaerobic waterlogged conditions is a tremendous boon.

I'm not surprised that there are no firesteels found in the early archaeological record; indeed I'd be more surprised if there were any.

cheers,
Toddy

Can you point me in the direction of the article/provenance for the fireboards and hearths you mention please?

I talk to people on this subject a lot and to be able to refer to specific examples like that would be great. At the moment I only refer to ancient Egypt where artefacts survive.

Thanks!

 

[tombear]

How far pre Roman are you interested in? This site

http://salt.org.il/frame_saltpet.html

refers to flint and pyrite fire lighting in Yorkshire about 700 BC. Also some interesting stuff on the use of saltpeter but the guy could do with referencing his sources.

i better go and start skinning my knuckles on the fools gold I nicked from the kids rock collection! Any things better than friction fire lighting to me!

atb

tom

 

[Goatboy]

Was always under the impression that our early percussive fire making technique was to predominantly use flint and naturally occurring iron nodules. Even when we couldn't work iron we could utilise what we found. Much like how surprised we were to find Inuit who had had no outside contact or smelting technology using iron knives, turned out they were of meteoric origin.

Why make it if you can find it?

 

[Stringmaker]

Any things better than friction fire lighting to me!

atb

tom

Heresy!!!!

 

[Toddy]

Can you point me in the direction of the article/provenance for the fireboards and hearths you mention please?

I talk to people on this subject a lot and to be able to refer to specific examples like that would be great. At the moment I only refer to ancient Egypt where artefacts survive.

Thanks!

Loch Olabhat and Loch Tay, both Crannog sites excavated underwater, resulting in recovery of amazing organic artefacts

Both cold waters, c4degC, both waters rich in phenols and tannins from surrounding run off, and both preserved under layers of organic debric in anaerobic conditions.

Article links....PSAS and the Scottish Crannog Centre links. Need to find them though.

atb,
Mary

 

[THOaken]

Loch Olabhat and Loch Tay, both Crannog sites excavated underwater, resulting in recovery of amazing organic artefacts

Both cold waters, c4degC, both waters rich in phenols and tannins from surrounding run off, and both preserved under layers of organic debric in anaerobic conditions.

Article links....PSAS and the Scottish Crannog Centre links. Need to find them though.

atb,
Mary

I'm planning to make a trip to the Crannog Centre in the following month. Can't wait.

 

[Stringmaker]

Why make it if you can find it?

Not all iron pyrite is the same; you are at the mercy of your local geology in terms of getting something that sparks. As Toddy says, friction has a long history because it can be done virtually anywhere and the kit is quick and easy to make. Forget the notion of "survival"; harvesting and drying the components would be part of every day life. Once you wear out one drill/hearth you just replace it with one you prepared beforehand.

The absence of pre-Roman fire steels in the archaeological record now makes clear sense to me. Why make them when you can use friction instead?

 

[Stringmaker]

Loch Olabhat and Loch Tay, both Crannog sites excavated underwater, resulting in recovery of amazing organic artefacts

Both cold waters, c4degC, both waters rich in phenols and tannins from surrounding run off, and both preserved under layers of organic debric in anaerobic conditions.

Article links....PSAS and the Scottish Crannog Centre links. Need to find them though.

atb,
Mary

Fantastic, thanks very much.

This thread is why I cough up my full member subs and is worth every penny.

 

[Big Stu 12]

150 years ago it was quite common for children in Norway to go to neighbouring farms to borrow fire although matches and flint and steel was both known.

Is this not the way things had gone on for years, dont the Native Austailains still carry an ember around with them, along with many other native's around the world, using afungus or simular.

this save most of the work required by friction, I know I would use the method if it was to save time and effort.

 

[boatman]

Percussive fire has been used in Europe for approximately 43,000 years. What were once known as Cro-Magnon man were using it, they are now reffered to as EEMH (Early European Modern Hominids).

That then means that at the time the celts colonised the UK they would probably have walked over the frozen channel during the last ice age, they will have brought the knowledge of using percussive fire with them.

I hope this helps.

Whoever they were they weren't Celts.

 

[THOaken]

Whoever they were they weren't Celts.

Yes, I believe the peoples of the La Tene culture came over to the British Isles during the late Iron Age and diffused with the insular inhabitants. The La Tene culture came from the continent and is related to the Urnfield Bronze Age culture and the Halstatt culture. I believe in chronological order it's Urnfield > Halstatt and then La Tene. I have a pretty good grasp of my prehistory starting from the Lower Paleolithic with Boxgrove Man through to the Iron Age Celts. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, though.

People from the Ice Age were certainly not Celts... They weren't even Proto-Celtic. They didn't have a shared cultural identity like that. The most significant migration was from around 13,000 years ago when the climate started to get a little warmer. Then came the Loch Lomond sub-phase around 12-11,000 years ago to 10,000 years ago, but there were still inhabitants as this mini ice age wasn't as cold as before. Then into the Mesolithic 10,000 years ago, starting properly around 8,000 BC, the British Isles were continually inhabited.

That's just a little memory test. Would be grateful if anyone could prove me wrong.

 

[boatman]

Bronze had become so plentiful towards the Iron Age that artifacts were being made that were actually useless with too much lead in the alloy and maybe they were only fit to be buried. Seems weird but it probably made economic sense at the time. See the excavations of the Glastonbury Lake Villages to see how plentifully iron was used for things that included sickles for harvesting their extensive grain crops and billhooks or spar hooks that experiment has shown were good for splitting hazel, for example.

 

[boatman]

Yes, I believe the peoples of the La Tene culture came over to the British Isles during the late Iron Age and diffused with the insular inhabitants. The La Tene culture came from the continent and is related to the Urnfield Bronze Age culture and the Halstatt culture. I believe in chronological order it's Urnfield > Halstatt and then La Tene. I have a pretty good grasp of my prehistory starting from the Lower Paleolithic with Boxgrove Man through to the Iron Age Celts. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, though.

People from the Ice Age were certainly not Celts... They weren't even Proto-Celtic. They didn't have a shared cultural identity like that.

Of course it is even uncertain whether La Tene and Hallstatt peoples can be called Celts. That styles can be transmitted other than by movement of peoples is well established.

 

[THOaken]

Of course it is even uncertain whether La Tene and Hallstatt peoples can be called Celts. That styles can be transmitted other than by movement of peoples is well established.

I've edited that post a bit. Want to verify if it's all correct?

 

[mrcharly]

, dont the Native Austailains still carry an ember around with them.

I believe the preferred Native Australian technique is "A box of matches".

However, back to the OP; I'm pretty sure that people wouldn't have let fires go out. Maybe this is a suitable challenge for forum members; make a container (out of natural materials) for carrying embers. See how long the ember lasts.

 

[swright81076]

Let's not forget the relative ease of transition of coal to fire with friction fires. A bit of dried grass is about all is required.
Whereas percussion fire lighting required Tinder's that needed working like tinder fungus.
I am aware there strong evidence of tinder fungus being used, but for me, if use the simpler method, as dry grass is easier to come by, and multifunctional.

touched by nature

 

[Big Stu 12]

I believe the preferred Native Australian technique is "A box of matches".

.

All of us can be cocky...

 

[THOaken]

[video=youtube;-EGAtLGDU7M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EGAtLGDU7M[/video]

 

[Toddy]

I'm pretty sure that people wouldn't have let fires go out. Maybe this is a suitable challenge for forum members; make a container (out of natural materials) for carrying embers. See how long the ember lasts.

One fomes glowed it's way quite happily for 3.5 hours I'm pretty sure we could extend that with a little carefull smooring.
Thing is too, don't discount out but still warm and dry materials for restarting a fire.
Clay pot lined with suitable materials and an ember put inside, get it all glowing well and then cover it. A quick coal from a bowdrill and off it'll go

Nice challenge though more so in our wet climate.

cheers,
Toddy