Horsehair line

[Toddy]

I was watching the Green Valley earlier this evening but we had a power cut in the middle (big bang and the entire neighbourhood went dark ) and I missed the bit where they made fishing line from the horsehair.
I've got a friend who keeps giving me this stuff and I can never find anything useful to do with it.
How did they make line from it?
It's a real pain to spin, though it weaves quite well but it doesn't fold back on itself at the selvedges, and a normal cordage lay is either *hairy* or unravels if you don't seal the ends

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[Ranger Bob]

They said that they braided it....unfortunatly, they never showed us a close up of the process or the finished line.

 

[Toddy]

They said that they braided it....unfortunatly, they never showed us a close up of the process or the finished line.

Ah, thanks.
Bet they fudged it it's not as easy to use as it first looks.
Anybody on the list made line from it? I can get more if anybody would like a try.
Cheers,
Toddy

 

[Fenlander]

I was watching the Green Valley earlier this evening but we had a power cut in the middle (big bang and the entire neighbourhood went dark ) and I missed the bit where they made fishing line from the horsehair.
I've got a friend who keeps giving me this stuff and I can never find anything useful to do with it.
How did they make line from it?
It's a real pain to spin, though it weaves quite well but it doesn't fold back on itself at the selvedges, and a normal cordage lay is either *hairy* or unravels if you don't seal the ends

Cheers,
Toddy

Have a look here Toddy about halfway down the page

http://www.farreaches.org/fishing/angling.html

 

[Toddy]

Have a look here Toddy about halfway down the page

http://www.farreaches.org/fishing/angling.html

Thanks nice link.
I think I'm going to have another go at braiding this stuff then. 6 part round braid on single hair maybe not that fine to start with Maybe two or three hairs per strand.
How long would be considered suitable for a fishing line? (I'm allergic to fish so never tried to catch the things, but the line looks useful)

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[Fenlander]

Hi Toddy, I read somewhere that the line should be twice the length of your rod

 

[ESpy]

Keep us posted how you get on - I've got a bagfull of hogged manes sat in the Land Rover at the moment, yet to try turning it into cordage...

 

[twelveboar]

I don't think it should be twice the length of your rod, as with your rod pointed upwards only half of the line would be out of the water, I would have thought it should be about the same length as the rod.

I thought they said that they plaited the horsehair, and I suspect very few salmon would be caught this way. They are difficult to land on modern tackle and the odds of landing one on a stick with a fixed line must be virtually zero unless you run up and down the river bank very fast. Trout could certainly be caught, especially greedy young fish or you could try "dapping" for larger trout.

 

[Eric_Methven]

I did this for a fifteenth century event once. The horse hair should be from the tail of a stalion. Mare's tail hair is weaker because the mare widdles all over it and the urine makes it less strong. Having said that, it's horses for courses and you use what you have.

The line should be fixed to a springy rod and should be about twice the length. The method of landing a fish was to strike then pull the line in by hand. As soon as the fish was within reach, hook it out with a big bent nail on the end of a stick.

To make the line, braid the horse hair staggering where you insert new lengths to keep the strength even and avoid weak spots. Start fairly thick and get progressively thinner until you end up with a single hair. Attach the fly to the single hair and cast lightly. The fish will see the line if it is thicker than a single hair and that is why it is important to use stalion tail hair. The stronger the more chance of landing the fish.

If fishing with worm or lure you can use a thicker line, but still no more than three or four braided hairs on the last few feet. Incidently, the word angling comes from the fact that a bone wedge was used before hooks were developed and wedged itself in the fish's throat - at an angle. Hense the word angling.

Eric

 

[Ranger Bob]

Interesting stuff Eric.......ummm, have you actually landed a fish with this method?

 

[Eric_Methven]

Not exactly. I caught an eel which tangled itself up in the line so badly that in the end I just binned the lot - rod and all!

Eric

 

[swamp donkey]

If you go here all will be revealed
http://www.flyfishinghistory.com/treatise_prologue.htm
Read it all then have a go . have done the line and hooks but not the rod yet!

Not bad for before 1500

 

[PatrickM]

Ah, thanks.
Bet they fudged it it's not as easy to use as it first looks.
Anybody on the list made line from it? I can get more if anybody would like a try.
Cheers,
Toddy

Hi Toddy,
It was good to meet you at tree in the park. Your gift of flax and hemp has been put to good use - I braided a combo fishing line with them. I'm sure it will serve me well when I go on my annual walkabout in a couple of weeks time, it is very strong.
When I braid with horse hair for fishing line, I usually start off with 12 strands for the first 30ft, then reduce to 9 strands for the next 20ft, then 6 for the next 10ft and finally down to 3 for the last 5ft, aiming for a gentle taper along the line.
I usually run the hair through beeswax as I find it gives an improved grip for braiding. The length of line you need will depend on what you are fishing for and the type of water you're fishing in.
If you have access to some spare horsehair, I always have a use for it, as the horses around here are starting to look a bit thin on top....!!!
Patrick

 

[Toddy]

Hi Patrick,
It was good to meet you too...didn't recognise the teeth
The flax and the hemp are excellent stuff, and they grow well here too.

Thanks for the information on the horsehair (I'll put the word out that I've got a use for more) From the numbers you give I presume you braided with a three part weave? Do you think there'd be any advantage to a four part (like the crocus leaves braid I had at the park) which would give a round profile along the line instead of an oval one? It's probably so fine it's academic really.

I hadn't thought of beeswaxing the hair. I have tried rosin (like that used on violin bowstrings which are traditionally made of horsehair) but I just ended up with sticky hands I'll give the wax a go.

I've also got a source for Highland cow hair too....long story.....it's like two different coats on the one beast. The undercoat is soft and spins well, the outer stuff is like a fine version of horsehair and nowhere near as long. Let me know if you want to give it a try.

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[jdlenton]

HI toddy I'm interested in giving horse hair a try as line can I have a wee bit too please and can you explain a bit more about this braiding I've done a bit of sinet makeing so it think I get it but a little more explanation would help is the three part weave jut a standard plat ? and the four stand the next step up from that ?

James

 

[ESpy]

I hadn't thought of beeswaxing the hair. I have tried rosin (like that used on violin bowstrings which are traditionally made of horsehair) but I just ended up with sticky hands I'll give the wax a go.

I've been using a mix of roughly 50/50 beeswax & rosin on my sewing thread recently - gives a much better bite than straight beeswax. Wonder if it is applicable here?

 

[swamp donkey]

Did any one get time to look at the link I put up? If so what did you think ?
it is genuine and was first printed around 1450.

 

[Toddy]

Did any one get time to look at the link I put up? If so what did you think ?
it is genuine and was first printed around 1450.

Yes, I read it. Thank you for the link.

It doesn't *read* like a15th century document though. Someone has seriously edited it I suspect.
The instructions for the construction of the fishing pole feels wrong. A fathom and a half as thick as a man's arm. That's 9 feet long and at least 9 or 10cms diameter and it's to be soaked in an *oven* to set it straight.....hmmmm lots of 9 foot plus medieval ovens about? even castle breadovens were rarely that long, and hefting the pole would be impressive!
Interesting though. I went looking for back up references and found different views on the authorship, the language and the details.
The dyes used for instance, especially the mordants are just wrong; and very wrong for the period, alum isn't written as alum then, indeed the pope had a monopoly on the production and supply of 'alum' until the16th century and that made it horrendously expensive. It was mostly used in paper making back then. To use copperas in such quantity would destroy the fabric of the line and we know that the section on flies is missing from the original manuscript copies.
I suspect that some later fishing enthusiast has *tidied up* and fleshed out the original writings, trying to make his additions appear as old as the original text.
I'm not a fisher though so I maybe little biased
How did other folks find the article?

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[swamp donkey]

Toddy
It kind of a funny one . . I did think much as you do but am changing now . I have seen the pamlet mentoned in wills and inventories right through the 1500 and almost to the end ofthe 1600 So it was definatly a know pamphlet.
For the rod it depends where you measure your arm? I would measure around the middle of my fore arm which would be ok for the baseand allow enough strength once hollowed out.
My wife who was a textile and dying bod also thought the dying instructions where wrong . but concluded that its for dying Horse hair and dying hair needs a stronger potion.? She also thought that may be the strength may have been weaker than these days due to better manufacturing process thes days
I am not that sceptical about the language as I have read many building contracts right across the medieval and Tudor period. The language is very varied.
As for what was available if you see the link below .things are not quite as some folks would have us believe. But does in some ways backs up the treases

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/source.asp?pubid=159