Homeless or just bivvying?

[Joonsy]

That is an excellent post James Higgins. I can relate to it on a number of issues. Firstly I travel a lot by public transport, note that during sundays and bank holidays there are less trains running than during weekdays, also during the night of any day there are less trains (sometimes none), in short outside of normal working hours trains run less often so it is advisable to check beforehand (timetables can be picked up from most stations). Also some rural train stations are what is called a ''request stop'' only, they will only stop if you put out your hand like you do for a bus, and when you board a train you have to let the driver know that you want to get off at a request stop otherwise they will not stop. Rural buses can have a very long time gap between services, and often after about 18:00pm there are no buses at all, and sundays and bank holidays there may be none either. (for working people who can only get out weekends and bank holidays and then only by public transport this is really restricting, it’s a bugbear of mine when we are constantly encouraged to use public transport). Be cautious in bad weather too when trains are notoriously unreliable, I have been caught out a number of times.

On the homeless issue I have personal experience of that too and the treatment received as such. There are good and bad people from all walks of life regardless of their background, a persons station in life does not equate to their decency and very few people are free from prejudice and hypocrisy. People become homeless for all sorts of reasons and your life can spiral downhill remarkably quickly, it can hapen to anybody at all through no fault of your own, there are some who have become homeless through mental health issues (ever heard the phrase ''care in the community'' spouted off by shoulder shrugging politicians which in reality often means no care at all), there are some very sad cases, however some caution should nevertheless be applied there are some nasty people too who will take advantage. In towns certain places attract homeless which will be well known to the regulars, however they are best avoided if you want a decent kip as they will also be well known to the police and you are likely to be moved on or reported, it is best to find your own little spot. When you are genuinely homeless few people will welcome your presence apart from other homeless people. Being homeless is a grim experience for most people, the hopelessness can be so overwhelming it takes a monumental effort to recover from it, some never do and many are found dead every year in very sad circumstances. Read the book ''The Grass Arena'' and you will soon see there is nothing romantic about being homeless. ATB James Higgins

 

[James Higgins]

I have no delusions about finding anything romantic in being homeless. This surprise experience gave me a taste of it that's all, but surviving out there for an extended period is something else (especially in winter) and I respect those who have had that forced upon them for whatever reason. The experience has boosted my confidence to think that I could survive if everything went t***s up and its always good to be prepared for the worst life can throw at you.

In the end there's not much difference between a homeless person bedding down on some cardboard and getting into a sleeping bag in a shop front, or someone on this forum climbing into a bivvy bag and spending the night in an abandoned bus stop or town park. Perspective is the key here. One is doing it for fun, while the other is not. It looks like the same activity on paper but the mentality is different. Maybe if the homeless saw that some crazy people actually do this for fun they wouldn't feel as bad, lol

Btw, what does ATB mean?

 

[wheelnut]

All The Best

 

[British Red]

In the end there's not much difference between a homeless person bedding down on some cardboard and getting into a sleeping bag in a shop front, or someone on this forum climbing into a bivvy bag and spending the night in an abandoned bus stop or town park. Perspective is the key here. One is doing it for fun, while the other is not. It looks like the same activity on paper but the mentality is different. Maybe if the homeless saw that some crazy people actually do this for fun they wouldn't feel as bad, lol

I'm sad to say there is - the difference is huge - not just in terms of the equipment, but also the general state of health, ability to eat, ability to even have possessions. The difference is.....enormous.

 

[Joonsy]

In the end there's not much difference between a homeless person bedding down on some cardboard and getting into a sleeping bag in a shop front, or someone on this forum climbing into a bivvy bag and spending the night in an abandoned bus stop or town park.

There’s a huge difference, one has a home to go back to when the night is over while the other does not.

 

[Joonsy]

its always good to be prepared for the worst life can throw at you.

and just to add to my reply above --- some experiences are so awful that nothing can prepare you for what is to come.

 

[Macaroon]

and just to add to my reply above --- some experiences are so awful that nothing can prepare you for what is to come.

And that, unfortunately, is the truth of it..........

 

[James Higgins]

Quite clearly there is a huge gulf between someone in a bivvy having a warm home to go back to and the homeless with absolutely nothing or even any hope of this. But this was not my point. I was merely comparing the similarities of sleeping rough in the 2 instances, which are indeed very similar. It is simply sleeping rough. Please do not think I was being insensitive to the homeless. I will say it again that I respect those that have gone through this turmoil and i sympathize with them. Joonsy is correct, no matter how much you prepare, life can obliterate all your preparations.

 

[rorymax]

This is such an interesting and enlightening thread, some have bared their souls here, I admire them and appreciate their honesty and their sharing of their lives.

To all of you who have encountered difficult times, my best wishes for good fortune.

There but for the grace of .........................

rorymax

 

[Tengu]

Well, a few weeks back I was homeless, me, the securely nested one....

It can happen to anyone.

Now Im paying a fortune to live in a box.

 

[boatman]

I admit that iwhen I was walking at night thinking of sleeping on the Downs I would sometimes look enviously at cars passing below, lighted houses and even overflying aircraft and thinking how warm and snug it would be to be in one of them. Passing thought and the pleasures of sleeping out at night would soon take over but it was just a hint of the despair and envy a truly homeless person might feel.

 

[petrochemicals]

I'm sad to say there is - the difference is huge - not just in terms of the equipment, but also the general state of health, ability to eat, ability to even have possessions. The difference is.....enormous.

One chooses to do one and not the other, and has somewhere to go back to.

Also the difference between homelessness and rough sleeping, homelessness is sofa surfing, temporary accommodation etc, rough sleeping is cardboard city. Also a single man is told on your bike pal on your own initiative, whilst a woman couple or family containing vunerables such as women or kids, are quickly catered too and accommodated.!

 

[John Fenna]

Membership of the youth hostel association is a good thing for showers and a drying room, even if you don't pay to sleep there. I was a member a good while ago and used to dive in to get a shower wash stuff and get it dried.

I've been thinking of getting a life membership for me and the kids as I'm still young enough for it to be good value [although I feel the prices of rooms have risen quite a lot - you can get a bnb for near enough the same price in some youth hostels these days.]

I have been a life member of the YHA since I was about 16 (that is 40 years of membership!) and in that time I have seen hostels change from a basic bed/shower/stove combination (some places I stayed you could get a view of the outdoors through the walls!) to plush accommodation with carpets, TVs, wine with meals etc etc and the prices have changed to suit.
When travelling I still carry my card in case I need emergency accommodation but I do not see the YHA as much of an alternative to sleeping rough ... it is just too expensive!
Even when I was 20 and trying a Lands End to JoG walk I limited YHA stops to about one a week - getting access to showers, laundry facilities etc - and wild camping as much as possible to save cash.

 

[Tengu]

Sadly one of the great injustices of our society.

 

[xylaria]

One chooses to do one and not the other, and has somewhere to go back to.

Also the difference between homelessness and rough sleeping, homelessness is sofa surfing, temporary accommodation etc, rough sleeping is cardboard city. Also a single man is told on your bike pal on your own initiative, whilst a woman couple or family containing vunerables such as women or kids, are quickly catered too and accommodated.!

I spent a short time in b&b homeless shelter when I was 5 years old. All I remember it was really cramped with no where to play, there was fights at night from the others that were there. It wasn't a camping trip. I dont think things have improved in 35 years. Less women end up homeless but it isn't from more support for single females, it is women falling back on the oldest profession and other means. Men are at more risk because they are more likely to have left prison or the army and cant access support. It is a myth that certain groups are given council housing at short notice. Single people are at the bottom in of the heap of allocation.

 

[cranmere]

I'm a life member but I've rarely used hostels over the last 10 years. I think they were caught in a bind, their image was one of spartan accommodation and doing chores and that didn't appeal to a lot of the youngsters, however upgrading/updating lost many of their older members. y personal opinion is that doing a small chore n the morning tied people together into a community, without that it is little more than a B&B.

 

[Bindle]

I will add do show sense in how and when you engage with the homeless. Of course the homeless are people too (I speak from experience) and must be treated accordingly. However bear in mind that there are large proportions of people who are mentally ill and / or substance abusers amongst the homeless (and bear in mind most abuse substances because they are homeless, they are not homeless because they abuse substances).

Some homeless people are great and friendly people. Some will rob you. Some will attack you. A few will kill you. Many are just desperate and will do a lot for the amount of money and possessions that most of us carry.

Please, always remember the homeless - and if engaging make eye contact - it matters to us. But also do not be naive or put yourself in danger.

Red

Phew, thanks for that, I'll be sure to stay in the company of people who live in houses to maintain my safety and security.

 

[Laurentius]

I spent a short time in b&b homeless shelter when I was 5 years old. All I remember it was really cramped with no where to play, there was fights at night from the others that were there. It wasn't a camping trip. I dont think things have improved in 35 years. Less women end up homeless but it isn't from more support for single females, it is women falling back on the oldest profession and other means. Men are at more risk because they are more likely to have left prison or the army and cant access support. It is a myth that certain groups are given council housing at short notice. Single people are at the bottom in of the heap of allocation.

I spent a short time in B&B a few years back as my flats were temporarily uninhabitable after a fire. Whilst it was not fun at the time, I would say I was priveleged really since the Social Services arranged the emergency accomodation for those who were evacuated with no place else to go. After a couple of days I was expected to pay for my own lodging, which they conveniently forgot to tell me about, so I nearly got thrown out, however credit cards and the knowlege that insurance would pay up eventually saw me through. I might have left my flat with nothing but the clothes I was wearing, but I was able to buy a set of new clothes the next day.

That's a world away from losing your home and having no place to stay or any money to pay for a place to stay.

 

[Bindle]

Inflamitory in the extreme. Nope men are out on your ear, women are catered too, even the pro's! On the one hand you have the old style society of men being the accountable ones and the poor women catered too, on the other hand in society you have femenism and equal rights, so basically if your a bloke you get kicked twice. But that's ok Lil lady, we are men.

"Even the pro's"..... did you just type "even the pro's"? That would be the 'pro's' who exist solely because of men? If no-one wanted to buy sex, then there would be no 'pro's', and if you don't believe me just look at 35mm film and Kodak.

As for the last statement....jeeez

 

[demographic]

I'm looking forward to testing out the pubs. Abandoned bus stops seem like a good one if you can get a brew on first thing! I was thinking of planning a trip early next spring for a week or so. Not sure where yet.

On extended trips the subject of hygiene becomes an issue. Usually I just find a campsite and mostly they will allow you to use the facilities for a fee, or I just camp over for the night, but sleeping on a campsite in a bivvy seems like overkill so I've been thinking about ways to get around even this cost too but it's not so easy.

If you are on the coast in the summer then no problem, just dive in with a bar of soap, lol. But apart from this there is not much you can do (unless you can find a deep forest with fresh running water to heat and plenty of privacy!) Maybe public swimming baths in towns? I really don't know.

More urban or at least where the big roads are but...
I've worked away with a mate round the country a bit, he used to be a trucker and we were living out of the site cabins we were putting in place as well as living out the back of his van.

Truckstops often have free shower facilities or at least pretty cheap to use.
Motorway service stations have shower facilities and he's sometimes just gone to municipal swimming baths and got cleaned up there.

Worth taking crocs or something like that if using the truckstops cos you might not want whatever on the floors there on yer feet. Yeah they look bad, better than verrucas though eh?