Holly handle issues

[Quixoticgeek]

Back in the middle of winter, I started making some knife handles for the pair of Brusletto knife blades I picked up last year.

I started by harvesting a length of Holly from the woods, that is a bit thicker, but not too much thicker than the handle I wanted to make. I then drilled out the hole for the blade, and managed to force the tang into the handle. I shaped the handle, removed the bark and was rather pleased with the little knife I had made.

By next morning tho, disaster. The wood had split the total length of the handle, right through from centre to edge. The other piece of wood I had for the second blade, that I had removed the bark from, and done the first stage of shaping ready to drill, has also split in the same fashion.

I thus started to wonder if it was a case of green wood drying far far far too quickly. I have a length of holly left over that I didn't use, it has a lovely straight section, between where a number of branches were. This straight bit, seems to be unsplit, but the bits either side of the knot/junction are split.

I would like to try again, and make a proper no split handle, and I must admit that I really like the Holly wood I have used. Is there a way I can make such a handle without it splitting? I was using the drill, then fill approach, rather than heating the tang and burning it in and risk losing the temper.

Thanks

Julia

 

[Toddy]

Holly, especially fresh holly, will split; it's notorious for doing so.
It's a beautiful timber though, but either you need to soak it in PEG or you need to let it season slowly for years.

Sometimes, just sometimes, you can encourage a crack to close up again by soaking the timber in water, but unless it is very, very slowly dried and seasoned afterwards, it'll just split again

I have two spindle whorls that have both cracked, made from holly. Both were centre drilled, which is supposed to ease the propensity for spliting, but they both split anyway.

Somewhere on the forum is a longish thread discussing the timber and how to season it properly.
Finding it though ......

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Jonboy83]

I have used holly for knife handles before, but only by heating the tang otherwise I ended up with the same problem. But as you say you don't want to lose the temper. so what I did was use a scrap piece of steel to copy the tang of the knife I was handling. I then used this to make the hole for the knife all but the last 3mm or so and gently tapped the handle on the knife the remaining distance. It is a long process but it works hope this helps

 

[brancho]

A piece of timber like that would maybe 1 to 2 years to season well enough. Drilling it when unseasoned could have created more stress as would burning due heating/drying the wood unevenly. You need to use seasoned wood really though well seasoned wood can split.

This would work as an emergency handle in the woods but making a handle this way will not. Some woods split more often/easily than others.

 

[brancho]

I made handles out these bits of olive wood but due to using small round (seasoned) I still had issues with splits and shakes.


Wood from Aris by alf.branch, on Flickr

Not as bad as that but not good.


Aris knife 2 progres 3 by alf.branch, on Flickr

 

[Paddytray]

Holly, especially fresh holly, will split; it's notorious for doing so.
It's a beautiful timber though, but either you need to soak it in PEG or you need to let it season slowly for years.

Sometimes, just sometimes, you can encourage a crack to close up again by soaking the timber in water, but unless it is very, very slowly dried and seasoned afterwards, it'll just split again

I have two spindle whorls that have both cracked, made from holly. Both were centre drilled, which is supposed to ease the propensity for spliting, but they both split anyway.

Somewhere on the forum is a longish thread discussing the timber and how to season it properly.
Finding it though ......

cheers,
Toddy

hi toddy sorry mate what is peg ?

 

[Quixoticgeek]

PEG - Polyethylene Glycol - It's a wood stabilizer, and also is used medicinally as a laxative.

J

 

[david1]

[h=1]Polyethylene Glycol (PEG) Green Wood Stabilizer[/h]

 

[Toddy]

That's the stuff. You make it up in solution and leave the wood soaking in it for several weeks until the solution replaces the moisture in the wood (or something like that) and then the wood is useable but will season and dry without splitting.
At least that's my understanding of the stuff that my Uncle used for blanks for woodturning.

cheers,
M

 

[Paddytray]

Thank you I may have to invest in some .
I am a learner and have been struggling to stabilize wood myself.
I have been soaking In a pva mix and then drying slowly .

 

[Quixoticgeek]

Do note that PEG does effect what finishes you can use on the wood.

J

 

[Toddy]

Hadn't thought of that ....we just wiped with thinners and then oiled the bowls, etc.,

Googled a bit and this link is very clear on how to use the stuff.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/html/05k9805ie.pdf

cheers,
M

 

[Macaroon]

I've used Holly a lot over the years for staffs and sticks and for swingletrees, it's beautiful wood and immensely strong, but as Toddy stated it's the champion for splitting; Pieces of the size you're using will take 2 - 3 yrs. minimum to season, and this has to be done with care...............cut the piece you want to use well oversize, leave the bark on and paint the ends with an oil-based paint as there's where moisture is lost too quickly.
It's also a good idea to store your bit of wood in a thick strong paper bag; this will allow moisture out but slow down the rate at which it does so. Dont use a plastic bag, it'll just rot in it's own juices.

I've never known the "burning-on" thing to work with Holly, drill and file is the way to go; another option is to split the wood as per a full tang handle, cut out the relief for the stick tang then sandwich the two halves back together............if you're careful with this you won't see the join with Holly, or you can use liners and pin it as per full tang; I've done a few like this and they work very well and are just as durable.

Holly is a very delicate and subtle wood in appearance and in my view the PEG takes some of this subtlety from the surface finish, but there's no doubt that it works very well.

I have had some stunning pieces of deer-bitten and rabbit-bitten Holly which have been specimen quality, worked almost to the finished article as driving whips, which would have been worth much money and have taken many hours of meticulous work.................then you walk in one day to finish and the thing's split or has the start of a split: Infuriating, but it's the nature of the beast.

Hope some of this helps,.....................atb mac

 

[dwardo]

Seasoning wood properly and quickly can be a real pig to do. If you dont mind waiting years then its much easier.
It also depends a lot on the species of wood and the shape of the timber, and where abouts in the tree the limber came from. Oh and the conditions its kept in.

Some woods have a very low native moisture content which means they dry quicker with less warping, ash for instance.
Rapid moisture loss is is when checking happens so you need to regulate this loss and slow it some. But at the same time get the moisture out so it stabilizes to the relative MC.

I use accurate weighing scales and relative humidity meters so keep an eye on things but I am after quite tight control. Trying to season small diameter straight from the tree with the pith still in place is always trouble especially in woods such as holly. You are better of with a larger round and splitting off a quarter then trying to dry that as the grain structure is much more even and simple meaning less warping and checking.