Hilltrek masks

[Dougster]

One of the benefits of where I live is that I am under an hour from Hilltrek, lovely people, lovely products (I have an organic ventile shirt on the way for summer).

One of my oldest friends runs a care home nearby and Hilltrek gave away many of these to them and the other care homes in the area.

I ordered four this morning for my family as we have been advised to wear them shopping in Scotland.

They are great people, if you are unable to make a covering for yourself this is a great alternative and they are using profits to keep supplying where they are needed.

Ventile Face Mask

hilltrek.co.uk

 

[brambles]

I got given one of these and it is really not useable. They've use 2 layers of ventile and you really cannot breathe through it, so if it is fitted correctly and close to the face as it needs to be, your exhaled breath blasts up on either side of your nose and into your eyes. Pinch it to stop that happening and you just can't breathe because the ventile is too close a weave.

 

[Dougster]

I got given one of these and it is really not useable. They've use 2 layers of ventile and you really cannot breathe through it, so if it is fitted correctly and close to the face as it needs to be, your exhaled breath blasts up on either side of your nose and into your eyes. Pinch it to stop that happening and you just can't breathe because the ventile is too close a weave.

I haven't found that yet. I find the only downside is breath coming up misting glasses if you wear them.

 

[John Fenna]

Misting happens with everything I have tried!
First I used a Buff, then cotton twill masks (2 layers and non-woven interlining) and cotton lawn with single layer of non woven interlining...
If the weave is tight enough to filter viruses then it will be hard to breath through!

 

[Stew]

I haven't found that yet. I find the only downside is breath coming up misting glasses if you wear them.

You need a strip of metal to pinch the bridge of the nose.

 

[Paul_B]

You could get a bit of wire and tape it to the Hilltrek mask to shape it to your nose. That's courtesy of the sun newspaper so no idea of it'll work.

I would have thought shaping the mask material so it in tapers down at the side might form a closer fit. Hilltrek ones are simple rectangles.

The links I gave said thick cotton was great at stopping the virus and fine particles but breathability made it less likely to be worn properly so makes it unsuitable. There are options that are effective at stopping bugs but are between surgical and dust mask options in terms of breathability.

One more thing I've read is if your mask had valves like dust masks then it's best to tape the valves up because they open to expel your breath which defeats the principle of wearing it to stop passing your bug in to others. That's the main reason for masks in these times so valved masks need closing off.

 

[Paul_B]

John Fenna has given me another idea.

People in here are very practical on the whole (I'm less so) with many who will have experimented with mask designs and options. Would it be helpful for people to list what they've tried and how well they thought it worked?

JF has started that to some extent but if people are to make some for them and their family then not duplicating others unsuccessful attempts might be very helpful. It is that kind of help that makes this forum so good to visit.

 

[Paul_B]

Misting happens with everything I have tried!
First I used a Buff, then cotton twill masks (2 layers and non-woven interlining) and cotton lawn with single layer of non woven interlining...
If the weave is tight enough to filter viruses then it will be hard to breath through!

Yes, even valved dust masks from good brands leave my glasses steamed up. When I have to use one I only wear it for short periods before I need to come up for air and clear the glasses. Not sure of how to stop that with homemade masks. The nose strip solution comes on even cheapo dust masks and they still fog up the glasses.

 

[Broch]

In the desert we used neck tubes/head bands doubled over (those elastic head things all the outdoor shops sell); they were effective against desert dust (think more talcum powder than sand) but that's orders of magnitude larger particles than the virus. Even then it was uncomfortable after a couple of hours and I felt breathless so would have to remove it for a while. Any mask that is worth wearing will be uncomfortable and be difficult to breath through so I think you have to assume you're wearing them for minutes not hours.

If the workplace rules insist on masks I fear the masks people will be wearing will be to give confidence not actually do any good

 

[brambles]

My first thought was adding a wire across the nose, which is why I pinched it across the bridge of the nose to see how that affected it, and immediately found it sucked into my mouth on inhale and ballooned out with exhale, with not a great deal of air being supplied! If you wear it so loosely that it provides no barrier protection, the problem goes away but then so does your chance of protection from an airborne virus

 

[fenix]

My first thought was adding a wire across the nose, which is why I pinched it across the bridge of the nose to see how that affected it, and immediately found it sucked into my mouth on inhale and ballooned out with exhale, with not a great deal of air being supplied! If you wear it so loosely that it provides no barrier protection, the problem goes away but then so does your chance of protection from an airborne virus

They are meant to protect other people from you, not the other way around. They can also help stop the wearer from touching their face, so that might help a bit.

Diffeent masks for different tasks.

The DIY and surgical style ones are primarily there to stop you transmitting to other people, so only really work if everybody wares them. We are probably going to start waring them where I work.
Close fitting FFP2 and FFP3 masks are there to protect the wearer, but the valved ones, including ones with replaceable filters, will not protect anybody else, the exhaust is not filtered.

 

[Stew]

They can also help stop the wearer from touching their face, so that might help a bit.

From what I've seen, people who wear a mask actually touch their face more often, fiddling with the mask.

 

[Paul_B]

Taking it off to chat to someone on their phone or the checkout operator or a mate I'm the be supermarket. Or wearing it over only their mouth because it's hard to breath when worn properly. Then they're on and off with the mask all the time. Most people hold the mask to put it on and off. I read somewhere that only the elastic should be held to do that.

From what I have read and listened to from experts, masks have the capability of helping reduce infection but only alongside all the other techniques. Using masks as the only control has not been done anywhere, it's always been part of social distancing, testing, isolation, contact tracing, etc. No expert really thinks there's no benefit the all seem to me to be arguing over the level of that benefit.

The thing is they do not have enough evidence about the virus yet to determine accurately the benefits? For example they don't know the number of viral particles needed before infection occurs? Could be 300 or much more than 1000. A cough gives 4-500 I believe but a sneeze is into 4 figures. Masks may reduce release of half of those particles so 1000 reduces to 500 in a sneeze which may be below infection load needed. The receiver might by probability get even less of the load released.

Then there's the mode of transmission. The sneeze releases the virus in water droplets, those become atomised after a period of time. Some viruses transmit in the droplets better others in the atomised particles. So you get a load of virus in the method that's ineffective then you might not get infected even with a high enough load AIUI.

It seems to me that there's no way to prevent us getting it in a practical and guaranteed way. By reducing the chances of passing it on to others then I think that's the only action we can take. Distancing and masks in public I think do help, even if only a little. So we should do it, all.

 

[Stew]

Taking it off to chat to someone on their phone or the checkout operator or a mate I'm the be supermarket. Or wearing it over only their mouth because it's hard to breath when worn properly. Then they're on and off with the mask all the time. Most people hold the mask to put it on and off. I read somewhere that only the elastic should be held to do that.

I've not seen that, just people adjusting it against their face lots.

 

[Nice65]

In the desert we used neck tubes/head bands doubled over (those elastic head things all the outdoor shops sell); they were effective against desert dust (think more talcum powder than sand) but that's orders of magnitude larger particles than the virus. Even then it was uncomfortable after a couple of hours and I felt breathless so would have to remove it for a while. Any mask that is worth wearing will be uncomfortable and be difficult to breath through so I think you have to assume you're wearing them for minutes not hours.

If the workplace rules insist on masks I fear the masks people will be wearing will be to give confidence not actually do any good

I’m using an army buff/snood/headover. I double it up and stuff a folded sheet of kitchen roll in it. It’s better than nothing for stopping particles.

I know a warehouse manager who has had the virus and was home for three weeks. When he got back to work he was pleased to see everyone wearing masks and working well apart from each other. On seeing him, he said they all rushed up to welcome him back, removing their masks to do so.

 

[John Fenna]

The two major factors in the transmission of the virus -
1/ The density of the population
2/ The density of the population.

 

[Paul_B]

Not going into the overpopulation debate there are we? There's an online site that has a counter for the population in the planet. It even breaks it down into births and deaths, also into countries. Scary to see it ticking up. Also, interesting to see smaller European countries population going very slowly up then suddenly dropping a few. India's is going up so fast I wouldn't bet on China being the most populous nation for much longer.

Anyhow, that's off topic. We're where we are. BTW population density where we are isn't that high so I feel lucky to live where I do.

 

[Dougster]

From what I understand it is to remove the airborne spread, in particular with people wearing them who are non symptomatic. Gaps around the edge aren't going to make much difference but a cough is 50-60mph with a range of 2 - 4m, a Sneeze 300mph and nearer to 8m - 10m.

I am working from home so I wear this mask when shopping or popping to the bike shop as I just have, washing hands after touching anything, not touching our faces...it's like everything else, part of a package of measures to help. I just like these as they are comfortable and the sellers are doing good in our local area. I don't have to worry about misting, I wear contact lenses and we don't have summers any more except what we had recently, so pairing it with sunglasses won't be an issue.

Habits will have to form. We ave been informed to expect return to lockdown to return to lockdown repeatedly for two years. Up here in Aberdeenshire we are not yet at our first peak.

 

[brambles]

They are meant to protect other people from you, not the other way around.

I am fully aware of that fact which is why I referred to your chance of protection, rather than mine.

 

[Old Bones]

From what I understand it is to remove the airborne spread, in particular with people wearing them who are non symptomatic. Gaps around the edge aren't going to make much difference but a cough is 50-60mph with a range of 2 - 4m, a Sneeze 300mph and nearer to 8m - 10m.

We had the infection nurse come to answer our dept questions last week (NHS), and the advice was that the virus is most easily spread by coughs, etc, because its spread via heavy droplets with, as you say, a range of 2-4m, a sneeze perhaps a lot further than that, etc. Hence the social distancing, and hence the reason why I need to wear a mask/wash hands/wear gloves when going on certain wards.

Masks are useful, if used properly, but if people have them dangling around their neck, then its a wast of time. I've noticed that social distancing in supermarkets etc is getting a bit haphazard, and people are taking stupid risks. Your right to wear them, take reasonable precautions, etc - I wish everyone would.

My wife has made some masks, and is waiting for elastic to arrive to make some more so they dont need to be tied on. And I do have a Buff in the pocket of my jacket at all times, and if it gets more crowded on the bus to work (and numbers are creeping up), then I am wearing it. I had two weeks in self isolation simply because my son spiked his temperature (he was fine), and I am not going through that again. And looking at the number of Covid 19 deaths, and what happens even if you get through it, everyone should stay safe. And your totally right - there will be waves, and the modelling a while back from some researchers pointed to 2021 being the end date. In 1918 there were three peaks, with the final one being in 1919. Its not going to be quick.