Hilleberg Bivanorak .. any views?

[Erbswurst]

With a SF bivvy you cant sleep in a hammock?
It has a half length zipper.

Don't you get condensation problems in the Jerven bag?
I think it has a totally water tight fabrik, which doesn't breath.

I think it is made to sleep on moor ground, where they have fear to press water through the goretex fabric.

Or they simply continue to produce the old stuff, because it doesn't disturb hunters who buy it.

I think to sleep a night in it, Snugpack and Hilleberg give the better options. Their fabrics are breathing.

But of course if I would like to sit in an area without any trees as a hunter the Jerven is an interesting option.

I prefere bivvy bag and poncho, because that is helpfull in hot conditions too and in Germany we have more or less every where forests or hedges.

Sitting on a rock in the wind may be the Jerven bag is better. Norway has a lot of rocks and windy coast line.

 

[Tonyuk]

Sorry, the pole bivvy tents have condensation problems.
Isn't it???

Snugpack SF bivvy bag and Hilleberg Bivanorak are ultra light equipment. That's totally different if you compare it with military bivvy bags or Jerven.

I don't remember ever having an issue with condensation and its nice to be able to keep the flies etc.. away from your face. Its not "light" in modern terms but its not exactly heavy. The lightest bivvy i have is a hunka XL by Alpkit. Its good, but does feel more fragile.

 

[mousey]

With a SF bivvy you cant sleep in a hammock?
It has a half length zipper.

It's not that it can't be done, just tricky, like it is tricky to use a sleeping bag in a hammock in general [especially one with a half zip] - the best I've found is to either try to wriggle down into the sleeping bag whilst bouncing around in the hammock, or to step into the sleeping bag pull it up around you then get into the hammock [sit first then swing legs in]. Much easier to have a blanket / quilt / totally openable bag, one on top one below.

Don't you get condensation problems in the Jerven bag?
I think it has a totally water tight fabrik, which doesn't breath.

I've found that if I zip the bag up completely but leave my head out then little condensation happens although I mostly leave the head or foot end partly open for ventilation [and because it's too hot to have it completely enclosed] - If totally enclosed with my head in there breathing into the bag then yes I find condensation.

I think it is made to sleep on moor ground, where they have fear to press water through the goretex fabric.

Aren't all bivi's meant to sleep on [possibly] wet ground whether moor or not?

Or they simply continue to produce the old stuff, because it doesn't disturb hunters who buy it.

Yes possibly a cash cow so continue to produce because they know it'll sell.

I think to sleep a night in it, Snugpack and Hilleberg give the better options. Their fabrics are breathing.

Everyone has there preference.

But of course if I would like to sit in an area without any trees as a hunter the Jerven is an interesting option.

Yes I suppose this is an area where it excells

I prefere bivvy bag and poncho, because that is helpfull in hot conditions too and in Germany we have more or less every where forests or hedges.

I'm in NE Scotland what is this 'hot condition' you refer to?

Sitting on a rock in the wind may be the Jerven bag is better. Norway has a lot of rocks and windy coast line.

Yes we have rocky coast too, and on a couple of occasions there has been nowhere suitable to hang from so the Jerven is my backup if it all goes wrong I can used it as a plain bivi. Usually it gets used for the kids to sit in if they get a bit cold at the beach or on a hill I've dragged them out to .


Well done to anyone who has bothered to read to the end of this post - probably my longest ever!

 

[Janne]

Congratulations!

I know that the Swedish Armed forces did extensive and expensive research and evaluation before they settled on this design.
( Like all Armed Forces worldwide do).
The Bivanorak works. No, I have never tried it. They have.
The pilots have periodic training and practice in survival, where they use the supplied equipment. Had the pilots had any issues, Hillebergs would have modified it.

Many companies sell products they claim are made for the Armed Forces of some country, Special Forces, and so on.
The vast majority are not.

All armed forces look for: Longevity, functionality. Cost is usually down on the list.

But remember, this is a piece of equipment meant for a couple of weeks use, so do not expect it to be good using every weekend for years and years.

Sleeping on soggy ground? Why?
I have spent close to three years sleeping rough in the Swedish Norrland (Lappland) inland, where there is more marshland and wetlands than you can imagine or wish, and always found a decently dry spot, even after prolonged rains.

 

[Erbswurst]

I don't know why.

Somewhere I red it, I think.

May be that you would be seen on the hill? In the first world war they had been in trenches instead of sitting comfortably on hills.

 

[Erbswurst]

Ah, I just had a look at the map.

I thought, Scotland would be a part of Malta....

 

[Janne]

Just below the hill top. Lurking underneath the low, wide pine...

The trenches were and are for the infantery. Granddad spend 2 years in them, in Sud Tyrol / Italy. Isonzo area. Then he moved unit, and then spent the last year in the Alps. Not as restricting, better views. But deadlier.

 

[Janne]

I just remembered: Granddad was issued a special coat for the Dolomites. Made from cm thick felted wool, lined with rabbit skin.
Large rabbit skin collar. It weighted many kilos. They slept in it too.

I was given it by grand mother as a memento together with his medals and sabers, but after a couple of years we discovered it was infested with those fabric eating small moths, which had eaten holes in it, so I had to throw it away.

We are lucky to have access to these modern weight fabrics and designs.

 

[Deleted member 36581]

All armed forces look for: Longevity, functionality. Cost is usually down on the list.

But remember, this is a piece of equipment meant for a couple of weeks use, so do not expect it to be good using every weekend for years and years.

Cost most certainly is a big consideration. Military kit is normally pretty bombproof but often there is better kit available, hence why many squaddies buy their own kit.

I also think there is potentially a big difference between survival kit and regular camping kit. Just because the military have approved something as part of a survival kit after testing doesnt mean it's going to be great to use in an every day sense.

Survival kit needs to be flexible and keep you alive with minimal kit. Comfort is very much secondary and I reckon most on here will want a little comfort in their activities.

 

[Billy-o]

Wonder what colour the GoreTex moth will be when it eventually evolves

 

[Janne]

Cost is always a consideration of course, but some countries prefer to spend a little bit more to get quality.
Fallkniven is today in the Swedish AF kit too.
The carbine we use is an Fabrique National FNC, modified for arctic use.
It was the second best tested before the mods.

As I said, it is survival equipment meant to save the life of the downed pilot for a week or two, in all Scandinavian weather situations.

Cost? Not bad for what it is. Remember, it is made in Sweden, not a Chinese knock off.

Comfort is relative. You can achieve comfort by using what is around in nature in abundance. The way most Scandinavians do bushcraft is using the bare minimum, as you have to carry it on the back, including food supplies to last you through the duration of the trip. You will understand what I mean if you have done a week or two outside civilization.

If you only do two nights - even better. You can pack a 25L backpack. With luxury food and drink included.

I have never seen anybody using a wheeled implement or such. We carry. If we are skiing in winter, we might use a pulka if we are a group.

Hence the technique using pine trees. Soft, comfortable, secure, keeps most of rain away. No need to carry it.

I appreciate you in UK might not have the same natural benefits.
Remember, the Bivanorak is a multi use thing.
While sleeping: A wet weather cover. A wind protector.
While walking: Wet weather protector ( including for a flattish back pack) and a wind protector.

It even protects you from getting your trousers wet if you walk in wet grass.

Of course, it is not a 100% solution for everybody's needs.

To get the same in separate items you end up carrying a much heavier load. 4 times bulkier.

Reflect on what the OP asked. The answer, simply said - it is a brilliant item.

 

[Billy-o]

I have never seen anybody using a wheeled implement or such.

Those segways are getting pretty advanced now. You see them on all sorts of hilly terrain. Snow, pretty heavy mud. Do a quick google image search on 'segway mountain'

 

[Janne]

The inventor died on one.
Poetic justice, inventing a such menace.....

 

[Erbswurst]

The question is:


How do I get the sleeping bag in the Bivanorak and me in the sleeping bag, if it rains?

I have the Impression that it is made for summer or warm clothing or long log fire!

But I have to say: I love multiuse equipment! That saves weight.

Is it really made in Sweden???

It's made in Estonia I guess.

But of course: Estonia is a member of the European Community and not a part of China.

 

[Janne]

Made In Estonia? I guess the Swedish workers take to many coffee breaks.....

I guess it goes like this:
Lay out the Bivanorak on chosen ground.
Place your sleeping mat inside
Place your closed sleeping bag inside, preferably on top of mat
Close foot end of Bivanorak
Reach in and open the zip of the sleeping bag.
Wiggle into it( from the top)
Zip up
Sleep.
Wake up in the middle of the night, and wet yourself, sleeping bag and Bivanorak, only because you forgot how to get out .

Post it in the 'For Sale' section of BCUK.

 

[Janne]

In Canada and Alaska they maybe call it a Hilleberg Tamale?

 

[Erbswurst]

What is a tamale, how and why?

I thing, it's better to protect the bivvy bag with the mat, if you use one.

By the way:
Sleeping pad, sleeping mat, comfort carpet, rubber boat....

I didn't use a mat till I bought a thin bivvy bag. And with it a thin closed cell foam mat from the German army to protect it.

If it's cold I can put a jacket and twigs under me. If it's warm, the ground should be comfortable enough!

For decades we slept on open ponchos or closed them to bivvy bags. We did it in Sweden too!

 

[Herman30]

A tamale is a dough wrap with some filling stuffed inside. Hilleberg tamale = wrap for the bears to eat.

 

[Janne]

Herman has the Nordic sense of humor like me!

Correct. Our local tamales are also wrapped in banana leaves that need to be peeled off or the fibers catch on your teeth!

 

[Billy-o]

Made with corn and corn leaves here ... I like the parties you go to where everyone sits around making them

I like the Chinese ones, especially - sticky rice baked in banana leaves (I think they are banana leaves, anyway) .. imparts a lovely strong, earthy flavour