Hi from Newbie

[Jodfrey]

Hi, new to the forum, and fairly new to bushcraft in general.

I have developed an interest in bushcrafts through my church, I'm a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (please don't hold it against me, I would love to say I'm relatively normal, but that would probably be pushing it ;-p) aka Mormons. It has been suggested by the leaders of our church that we should prepare a 72 emergency pack, and in light of recent national and international natural disasters, and other, i thought id look into getting a pack started.

Initially this started with a plinking .22 springer air rifle (which is now been usurped by a PCP .22 rifle, although the plinker still has a place in my pack, as i have yet to get a stirrup pump to maintain its charge), a survival knife (about a 7" blade, with a sheath that doubles up as a slingshot, and carries extra's - sure you know the kind of thing i mean), a "fire strike" stick, a whistle, and a few little extras.

What i'm wanting to do know is add some good kit, and then anything i have already can go into making extra kits for my wife/children to carry, so we have a backup should we get seperated, or lose the main kit.

As such i have been looking at getting a leatherman multi tool, since christmas. Initially i saw the Leatherman Freestyle in Costco, which peaked my interest, my mate has the Wave, and so i thought id see what else was out there. After a huge amount of faffing i was looking at getting the Leatherman Skeletool, only for my wife to say that if i waited to the end of the month, i could get a Wave or i might be able to stretch to a Charge AL/TTI.

Now i'm having second thoughts, as this is a lot of money to plough into a bit of kit, which may never see the light of day - i'm a teacher by career and as such, if i need to fix/tweak/repair anything, i generally have the time to find the correct tool for the job.

So i eventually get to my first question - do you guys carry multitool in your "B.O.B.'s", if so what? As i have already said, i have a survival knife, i also have a folding garden saw which is also in my makeshift BOB carryall - so is there anything on any multitools that would be essential, other than a secondary blade and pliers, that you guys have had to rely on on more than one occassion?

I have made myself some tinder, and have taught myself how to light this using the "strike stick". What should i know be concentrating my attentions on?

What would you say are essentials for a B.O.B.?

Can you point me in the right direction for this information/books especially for reference that i can read and throw in my kit for reference, etc, etc.

I know i am asking huge amounts, without necessarily being that coherent, but any thought and ideas/comments, please do so, as they will be greatfully received.

Jodfrey - annoying but eager newbie!

 

[Shambling Shaman]

Welcome aboard, I had a print out of a pdf kit list, but I'm packing the house if I find it will get the link off it a post it as its not bad.

 

[unorthadox]

Hi, new to the forum, and fairly new to bushcraft in general.

I have developed an interest in bushcrafts through my church, I'm a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (please don't hold it against me, I would love to say I'm relatively normal, but that would probably be pushing it ;-p) aka Mormons. It has been suggested by the leaders of our church that we should prepare a 72 emergency pack, and in light of recent national and international natural disasters, and other, i thought id look into getting a pack started.

Initially this started with a plinking .22 springer air rifle (which is now been usurped by a PCP .22 rifle, although the plinker still has a place in my pack, as i have yet to get a stirrup pump to maintain its charge), a survival knife (about a 7" blade, with a sheath that doubles up as a slingshot, and carries extra's - sure you know the kind of thing i mean), a "fire strike" stick, a whistle, and a few little extras.

What i'm wanting to do know is add some good kit, and then anything i have already can go into making extra kits for my wife/children to carry, so we have a backup should we get seperated, or lose the main kit.

As such i have been looking at getting a leatherman multi tool, since christmas. Initially i saw the Leatherman Freestyle in Costco, which peaked my interest, my mate has the Wave, and so i thought id see what else was out there. After a huge amount of faffing i was looking at getting the Leatherman Skeletool, only for my wife to say that if i waited to the end of the month, i could get a Wave or i might be able to stretch to a Charge AL/TTI.

Now i'm having second thoughts, as this is a lot of money to plough into a bit of kit, which may never see the light of day - i'm a teacher by career and as such, if i need to fix/tweak/repair anything, i generally have the time to find the correct tool for the job.

So i eventually get to my first question - do you guys carry multitool in your "B.O.B.'s", if so what? As i have already said, i have a survival knife, i also have a folding garden saw which is also in my makeshift BOB carryall - so is there anything on any multitools that would be essential, other than a secondary blade and pliers, that you guys have had to rely on on more than one occassion?

I have made myself some tinder, and have taught myself how to light this using the "strike stick". What should i know be concentrating my attentions on?

What would you say are essentials for a B.O.B.?

Can you point me in the right direction for this information/books especially for reference that i can read and throw in my kit for reference, etc, etc.

I know i am asking huge amounts, without necessarily being that coherent, but any thought and ideas/comments, please do so, as they will be greatfully received.

Jodfrey - annoying but eager newbie!

Firstly, forgive my genreal ignorence throughout the rest of this message, if I phrase something in a way you find offensive, it is unintended.

This emergency pack sounds like woudl be used during a disaster scenario, likely to be national or multinational. here are a few tips of ft he top of my head

Put everything in sealible food bags. This waterproofs that item which is particuarly useful for electrical devices and clothing.

Pack a radio, walkie talkie and a mobile phone. The first of these two are likely to be the primary methods of communitcation in disasters.

Pack spare batteries, a device with no charge is useless, spare batteries reduce the risk.

Using the rule of 3s(or 2s) your can survive 3hours without shelter, 3days without water and 3weeks without food. Water purification tablets take up almost no room, stock up!

Survival tins, although often criticised, tend to pack a load of good stuff, having at least one would be useful incase you forget something essential. One each would be a bit over kill but hey, this is for when excrement hurtles into rotating blades.

Assuming this is an 'armegeddon' scenario, urban environments could be totallty transformed, familiar landmarks destroyed. This being the case, identifying your location could be a problem, a basic GPS device will useful, for establishing coordinates to meet family and friends or giving your location over radio.

As for non survival aspects, main concerns are comfort and practicality. Address each piece of equipment making it as small and light as possible, items such as large spotlights are a bit over kill when an average hand held torch will do the same job.

Dry bags(waterproof) sacks are useful for larger pieces of kit such as sleeping bags for obvious reasons.

Books such as the SAS Survival guide are good reads to learn the basics, pocket editions are also practical to take with you.

As for the leatherman multitool, I would personally get a cheap multitool and carry it on you everyday for a few months, by then you will know whether or not you are justified in upgrading to a Leatherman.

Last bit of advice is to test your kit by going camping for 72 hours, you may forget one or two essentials the first few times, better to make the mistakes in practices before the kit is neccesary.

If your after a kit less focused on survival and more on casual campig, there are tonnes of threads that go into detail about every aspect of a 72 hr kit

Hope this was some help

 

[Jodfrey]

Cheers for advice - yeah the 72 hour kit is supposed to take into account resettlement for whatever reason, whether that is into "camps" or emergency accomodation, or even worse.

I think its a great idea, but as you say i would need to try and test, hopefully before ever needing to use it in real emergency.

I have a couple of mates that are warming to the idea of a weekend away, just living off of what we take, hence the air rifle, and one of us being a fisherman.

As for carrying a multitool, not best idea in a school, but i understand why you suggest this. Im actually thinking now of getting a basic leatherman, low end of price spectrum, and bulking it with 5 keyring pieces of Swiss Tech (various tools).

I have the obligatory wind up torches, i have a solar charger with numerous adaptors, but mainly for phone - although i know network will go down in a large scale emergency, but this has an electronic copy of the US military survival guide - although still prefer to get an SAS pocket book.

Thanks once again, and keep it coming!

 

[John Fenna]

Hello and welcome!
Although I am not of your religion I do not think you are the only Mormon here
I love my Leatherman tools and have several including my favourite - the Wave.
I have several BOBs dotted around too.

 

[gordonmac]

Hi Jodfrey, welcome to BCUK!

As for B.O.B.s, have you seen the TEOTWAWKI blog? (http://teotwawkiblog.blogspot.com). He has a really good listing for a B.O.B. here:

http://teotwawkiblog.blogspot.com/2010/10/my-list-repack-bug-out-bags.html#more

 

[Jodfrey]

Cheers gordonmac - found that blog a great source and start place for ideas.

John - yeah we Mormons get around, and dont worry im not going to start preaching (unless i get asked questions i keep quiet, as everybody is entitled to their own beliefs, or not as the case may be!) i only mentioned as it was relevant to why and how i got started.

I have looked at the wave, and as much as i like it, i also like the charge, but i am reticent about spending that much on a BOB dedicated multitool, when i could get a lesser verion or equivalent, and spend the saved money on other items for BOB.

Keep it coming people's, as i need all the help i can get.

Cheers once again.

 

[John Fenna]

John - yeah we Mormons get around, and dont worry im not going to start preaching (unless i get asked questions i keep quiet, as everybody is entitled to their own beliefs, or not as the case may be!) i only mentioned as it was relevant to why and how i got started.
QUOTE]
Aye - preaching can get you banned on this site but I like your attitude to it same with me and mine!
You can often aquire (swaps/sales/group buys etc) top kit on this site and at meets for a lot less than in shops - though for great gear at great prices you could do a lot worse than looking at Lakeland Bushcraft - the owner - Lurch - is a member here.
Wilderness 1-2-1 do "Gear Pods" inc the Wilderness System combination which are probably the best commercial BOBs I have yet reviewed (well - I am still testing it at the mo and will hopefully be getting it to print soon!...having too much fun with it to start the writing yet!)
Check out the Trading Post section of the forum - they are both in there

 

[mrcharly]

I've had to make up a similar pack - a grab bag for use on a boat in case of sinking.

On land, I'd look at things a bit differently.

Priorities for life:
Water
Shelter
Food
Sanitation

Probably in that order.

So an emergency kit should include at least 2 ways of treating and containing water. Purification tablets and a filter. Water containers - crushed PET bottles work well.
Shelter - you need to be able to construct or repair shelter. A saw - folding ones are fine, paracord or similar (it's amazing what can be built with rough poles and lashing). A spade - folding one for a small pack. Tarpaulins. The SAKs that include a woodsaw are amazingly versatile.
Food - emergency rations - tinned stuff is fine. Rice etc in totally sealed bags. Big tins (the 4ltr/1gallon type) make ok temp cooking gear.
Sanitation - the spade is a help here. Learn how to build toilets, maybe include some instructions.

Medical supplies are useful, but more useful is knowledge. A book on improvised first aid is very useful. I did some training at school in Australia - we had to make slings and splints from what we had in the classroom. Sounds foolish, but when my son broke his finger I rigged a sling out of a pair of tights - people laughed, but the ER staff reckoned it was excellent and wanted to know where I'd been taught how to make it.

 

[Jodfrey]

These were the Leatherman's I had in mind, in price ascending order:

http://www.leatherman.com/product/Freestyle
http://www.leatherman.com/product/Freestyle_CX
http://www.leatherman.com/product/Skeletool
http://www.leatherman.com/product/Skeletool_CX
http://www.leatherman.com/product/Wave
http://www.leatherman.com/product/Charge_AL
http://www.leatherman.com/product/Charge_TTi

I like the idea of the outside open locking knife, which is why models such as the Juice are not in.

I've seen reviews that state the Wave can be uncomfortable when using the pliers, due to the edges on the handles, something that does not happen on the Charge models.

I know the Wave is a common choice and people rave about them, but i don't really like the price for a dedicated BOB multitool.

There is no real reason why i want a Leatherman, apart from people do rave about them, so does anybody suggest any particular model or a like for like brand and quality?

 

[Shambling Shaman]

Welcome aboard, I had a print out of a pdf kit list, but I'm packing the house if I find it will get the link off it a post it as its not bad.

Found it

Here I laminated a copy and just use it for reference (you dont pack every thing on the list)

Hope it helps

 

[unorthadox]

Cheers for advice - yeah the 72 hour kit is supposed to take into account resettlement for whatever reason, whether that is into "camps" or emergency accomodation, or even worse.

I think its a great idea, but as you say i would need to try and test, hopefully before ever needing to use it in real emergency.

I have a couple of mates that are warming to the idea of a weekend away, just living off of what we take, hence the air rifle, and one of us being a fisherman.

As for carrying a multitool, not best idea in a school, but i understand why you suggest this. Im actually thinking now of getting a basic leatherman, low end of price spectrum, and bulking it with 5 keyring pieces of Swiss Tech (various tools).

I have the obligatory wind up torches, i have a solar charger with numerous adaptors, but mainly for phone - although i know network will go down in a large scale emergency, but this has an electronic copy of the US military survival guide - although still prefer to get an SAS pocket book.

Thanks once again, and keep it coming!

Although not the best idea in school, it is not unheard of, for example, the sound engineer in my school carried a leatherman wave with him, although his job was fairly hands on and we was wel justified in carrying it. This is where the law stands on the subject http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/26/section/4


Considering this is an emercency kit intended for disaster scenarios, other useful tools will include an axe to establish a more permanent shelter than a small tent. Prehaps a pocket sized book of uk plants and animals and their nutritional value. A fixed blade knife for each member of your family for self defence (or some other tool that can be used for protection), a chaotic society is a dangerous one and unfortunatly, organised crime blossoms in these scenarios.

 

[slasha9]

There are lots of folk asking about Leatherman multi tools at the moment, but as a cheaper alternative you might want to consider
http://www.heinnie.com/product.asp?strParents=&CAT_ID=102&P_ID=2155

I can't recommend Leathermans highly enough but this is a MUCH cheaper option and might be a better tool to practise with to get the feel of what you might need

Just so that you know, I have about seven Leatherman tools AND bought one of these as well to let my youngest get his hand in, no regrets!
HTH

Sean

 

[Jodfrey]

Where is the best place to get the more expensive leatherman's, as i'm coming up short on getting a good price for any of them.

Can't believe they are sold in UK pretty much GBP for USD!!! Starting to think it might even be worth paying international shipping and import charges! Any ideas?

 

[unorthadox]

Where is the best place to get the more expensive leatherman's, as i'm coming up short on getting a good price for any of them.

Can't believe they are sold in UK pretty much GBP for USD!!! Starting to think it might even be worth paying international shipping and import charges! Any ideas?

prehaps somewhere in the EU. The pound is becomign a lot weaker thus every country is cheaper not jsut the USA. Import charges are a lot cheaper in the EU, possibly free. or at least they should be in theory.

 

[Jodfrey]

Ive looked into importing a leatherman from US, and yes i get it cheaper to start with, but once all duties, taxes and shipping has been paid, they dont work out much cheaper.

Im struggling finding european continent leatherman's, and the ones i have found are pretty much UK price.

Any other places i might try, or am i going to have to bite the bullet?

 

[unorthadox]

you could ask around on the forums for one second hand, half price woudl be a reasonable offer if it is still in decent shape

 

[slasha9]

When I wanted to buy a Juice XE6 i found that it was cheaper by about £15 to buy it from Amazon.com in the USA and then pay shipping and duty. They were offering a pretty decent rate for shipping (I think it was about £4) and it got delivered one day earlier than the pouch which was shipped from the UK. They also had an option to pay for the duty at the time of purchase, this meant that after I paid Amazon for the import duty (about £5) they agreed that if the actual duty was more then they would put the extra.

No connection blah blah

HTH

Sean

 

[Jodfrey]

Might have to have another look at amazon.com then!

 

[toilet digger]

hello fella
welcome to the forum. i was poking about on the mormon website recently (as you do) and there was a pdf leaflet on provident living.
they promoted a 3 month supply cache.
http://www.providentliving.org/content/list/0,11664,7445-1,00.html
has this changed to 72 hours recently?
seemed all rather sensible to me.