herbal medicine

[Toddy]

It is indeed, and I recommended it frequently until someone told me that it's actually not that common I know that we can find lots of it around where I live, but.........

That's another good point.
It's all very well knowing a particular plant is of us, but if it's not available, you're stuck.
Lots of plants have cross over uses though and that's worth learning in itself.

I think perhaps the best advice would be find what grows near you, learn to recognise it, in season and out. Things like comfrey and meadowsweet might disappear, but if you know where they grew you can still find their roots in Winter time

My herb drawers and chests are constantly changing, being refreshed, added to, used up and renewed. They are not static things, herbs will lose potency, so keep them fresh.
If a plant is particularly useful to me I will deliberately grow it in the garden, whether it's a weed or not

Tinctures, pomades, robbs, tisanes........all good things

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Iona]

It is indeed, and I recommended it frequently until someone told me that it's actually not that common I know that we can find lots of it around where I live, but.........

Seriously? It's on every other tree here!

Also worth mentioning that some herbal meds have recently discovered obstacles associated with them (Comfrey and pyrolizidine alcaloids) and others have contra-indications (St Johns wort can interfere with some conventional medicines, as it helps the liver break down toxins and flush them out, including active ingredients in meds like the pill... It can also make you more photosensitive, so you can burn more easily).

These are things that it's important to research if you're going to self treat... On the other hand, a lot of herbal medicines are edibles and completely safe without restriction or worry about dosage.

 

[Toddy]

Yep, for a little while I was posting packages of them four and five times a week.......I've probably infected the whole country now

I think there's another issue.......sometimes folks start taking something and don't think enough. The old rule of thumb was, " three days, do you really need it more ? "
It's like the tale that McD's fat kills rats..........well yes, if they eat nothing else for four solid months, but in reality a little of it's just good food iimmc.
It's the same with herbs.
Be aware of what you're doing, and think it through. Another good rule of thumb is don't put anything on your skin that you wouldn't eat.......though if you're trying to kill warts........maybe that's a bit not so relevant.
It needs thought, and for heavens sake look at the information you're trusting. Is it trying to sell you stuff ? well there's a bias right away.

We really have hijacked the thread

cheers,
Toddy

 

[DaveBromley]

when i was a young lad and had blisters (from mountain biking) i was told that i should pee on them, being young this didnt bother me and to be honest i think it was the best thing ive tried.

If your having trouble with blisters on the feet then this might sound a bit extreme but it works! smear vasaline on the inside of your socks and it almost eliminates friction which allows the blisters to heal ( espescially good if your struggling on a long walk but need to get back (or finish)

Dave

 

[spiritwalker]

i love herbal medicine but in reality its hard to have a stocked larder for just in cases even james wongs recipes have shelf lives and if i made a batch of sting bite cream that keeps for 3 months well looking back i havent been bitten or stung in 3 months??? so its a little hard to adopt some of the remedies however ones straight from the plant are worth knowing and adding to field notes.

In relation to blisters there is great weight in the old saying.. prevention is better than a cure i havent had blisters for years i put this down mainly to good quality socks (some over £12 a pair) for hiking and well fitting leather boots invest money in the foot department as you spend most of your life and activities on them..

 

[Mahikan]

A great one for blisters is powdered goldthread root, the decocted seed of scotch pine, plus the others mentioned like calendula and of course comfrey paste is an excellent one to use for healing (though it is vital to ensure if it is an open blister that it is well cleaned, comfrey can heal quickly and if there is any dirt in the wound it will seal in).

My people have used herbal medicines for over 10,000 years in Canada and we have not only survived, but we have thrived. I'd say that 10,000 years of tried and true methods have some impact over the modern trials of the pharmaceuticals

Mahikan

 

[Mahikan]

A great one for blisters is powdered goldthread root, the decocted seed of scotch pine, plus the others mentioned like calendula and of course comfrey paste is an excellent one to use for healing (though it is vital to ensure if it is an open blister that it is well cleaned, comfrey can heal quickly and if there is any dirt in the wound it will seal in).

My people have used herbal medicines for over 10,000 years in Canada and we have not only survived, but we have thrived. I'd say that 10,000 years of tried and true methods have some impact over the modern trials of the pharmaceuticals

Mahikan

 

[Iona]

i love herbal medicine but in reality its hard to have a stocked larder for just in cases even james wongs recipes have shelf lives and if i made a batch of sting bite cream that keeps for 3 months well looking back i havent been bitten or stung in 3 months??? so its a little hard to adopt some of the remedies however ones straight from the plant are worth knowing and adding to field notes.

Creams do have short shelf lives, but tinctures, dried herbs and infused oils will keep for several years if stored correctly. They are, however, more potent if you make a new batch each year, which is where making your own has the advantage over buying herbal remedies over the counter, you just won't know how old they are, or how long a shelf life they've been given from the time of making...

 

[Mahikan]

Devils advocate time

"Herbal medicine, by definition is medicine which has either specifically been proven not to work, or not proven to work. Herbal medicine which has been proven to work is called....medicine"

There's a lot of good things out there, and contrary to popular belief pharmaceutical companies spend a lot of money researching herbal medicine.

Echinacea is my placebo of choice.

Sorry, but there is a ton of mis-information out there regarding what herbal medicine is and isn't. There has not been a case in which herbal medicine has been specifically proven not to work, as a researcher in this area, we have found much of this to be very faulty indeed and a ton of mis-information in the reports and journals. For example: It has been well cited that Black Cohosh causes and/or exacerbates cancer tumours. The study done was on three groups of mice, two control groups and one group that had tumours. One control group had tumours and the other did not. The one without tumours and one with tumours were given Black Cohosh and one group with tumours was not. The group without tumours had no ill effects, the one with tumours that was not given Black Cohosh lived out to the expected time period given their condition, and low and behold, the group that had tumours that was given Black Cohosh indeed worsened with their tumours. So according to researchers, this proved their theory that Black Cohosh worsens and causes tumours.

What they failed to explain to the public are two things: 1 they were using mice and not women. There is no correlation between a human females reproductive cycle and a mouse's. Mice have no menstrual cycle, and can give birth to multiple offspring once a month, women can not! 2. The dosage given to these mice was the same dosage given to an adult human female! Talk about overdose! I'd suffer consequences if I were given the same amount of medication for say a Blue Whale, absolute foolishness!

This and many more cases we medical herbalists have uncovered, and don't be fooled into thinking that phytochemical companies are not as on the ball as pharmaceutical companies, we have a good amount of research done in the same way and it also supports herbal medicine as viable. Pharmaceutical companies based all their initial drugs on plant medicine in the beginning and still use 30% of their medicines as plant based.

In addition, pharmaceuticals (and they are great, don't get me wrong) isolate chemicals responsible for the action they are requiring, and are not interested in the other chemicals present in the plant to keep things in check. The important fact is that both pharmaceuticals and phytoceuticals have a place in our world and both save lives.

As stated before, as a Native, our medicine we've used for the last 10,000 years to ills and injury at bay, have worked and worked extremely well, a good amount of data for research I'd say.

Sorry, rant over.
Mahikan

 

[listenclear]

Well said Mahikan.
I believe that thousands of years worth of observation is worth a great deal. If something doesn't work, the knowledge isn't passed on. It's the same with traditional bushcraft skills.
I would love to know more about your culture, esp the medicine.
Cheers

 

[caliban]

If common flowers and plants like poppies and hemp can have profound psychotropic and analgesic effects, it stands to reason that there are other plants can have profound physiological effects. No one thinks it weird, or "new age" if you tell them that eating bluebells will kill you, death being a fairly impressive plant induced physiological transformation, but if you tell some of these people that wet nurse's muffin (made it up, sorry) eases stomach cramps, they turn into arch skeptic mode. Some great info on this thread.

On a related note, since we have Toddy's attention, I've been keeping a patch of nettles in a distant corner of my garden and have taken to drinking nettle tea. I have mild asthma and I'm kind of certain that it opens up the bronchial tract and eases the breathing, it also seems to have a mild mood lifting effect. Is this just the placebo effect do you think?

 

[Mahikan]

Well said Mahikan.
I believe that thousands of years worth of observation is worth a great deal. If something doesn't work, the knowledge isn't passed on. It's the same with traditional bushcraft skills.
I would love to know more about your culture, esp the medicine.
Cheers

Indeed it is exactly the same as traditional bushcraft.
You may see me yet at one of the moots, I've been trying to get across the pond, will be over in Sept for a few weeks though. Maybe next year I'll be over to partake in a moot and pass on some traditional medicine knowledge. It is my lineage, and one thing at least that I can contribute.
Cheers
Mahikan

 

[Mahikan]

On a related note, since we have Toddy's attention, I've been keeping a patch of nettles in a distant corner of my garden and have taken to drinking nettle tea. I have mild asthma and I'm kind of certain that it opens up the bronchial tract and eases the breathing, it also seems to have a mild mood lifting effect. Is this just the placebo effect do you think?

In my Clinic I use stinging nettle as a specific for both allergies and asthma so no it is not a placebo effect, it is beneficial in many different ways and on many different levels.

Cheers
Mahikan

 

[Toddy]

Nettle tea is a good un'

However, be kind of wary. Late on in the season, now in fact, the plant develops crystals in the leaves and these are not good for you.
If you keep your nettles cropped though, they will constantly send up new growth. If you use that, things will be fine

Not so good for fibres that way though......horses for courses.

If you add some fresh thyme to your nettles that will gently boost the effect. If you can take liquorice root ( don't overdo it, it can be laxative) then that is another boost..........and all will grow here The liquorice gives a sweetening effect too, helps make the tea more palatable especially in Winter when using dried leaves.

It's not just a placebo effect, all of those herbs gently open up the airways, ease and soothe constriction, and that helps a person feel calmer, less stressed, and that helps the feel good factor

cheers,
Toddy

 

[kieran-]

What they failed to explain to the public are two things: 1 they were using mice and not women. There is no correlation between a human females reproductive cycle and a mouse's. Mice have no menstrual cycle, and can give birth to multiple offspring once a month, women can not! 2. The dosage given to these mice was the same dosage given to an adult human female! Talk about overdose! I'd suffer consequences if I were given the same amount of medication for say a Blue Whale, absolute foolishness!

Kind of feel like im butting in here since I dont know much about herbal medicine.

Why was the fact the study was done on mice, and not on human females significant to you? Laboratory science has a long and succesful history of using animal models. Of course that does not automatically mean x for a mouse equals x for a human being - but its a strong basis for proposing such a connection, paving the way for further experimentation. An enormous amount of work on human developmental genetics was done using the common fruit fly as an animal mode - its amazing how similar life is at fundamendal levels.

Doseage, as you point out, is entirely relevant - however its important to take the results in context. Pointing out that high doses of black cohosh increases metastasis of existing tumours, those results are significant. That does not mean that low doses will cause the same effect, but it raises it as a hypothesis for future experimentation.

As for your point on medicines being based on plants - exactly right. Plants produce a staggering range of secondary metabolites that experimentation reveals to have unique or interesting properties. The chemical structure of those compounds is determined, in particular the active sites of those compounds, i.e. what particular arrangement of atoms confers a particular effect. Thats your basic pharmacology, then computational pharmacology is used to determine new alterations or variations on that compound, for example to have a 'stronger' effect.

 

[listenclear]

Mahikan, would be great if you could make it over sometime. Please let us know.

 

[caliban]

On a point about dosage, it seems to that to regard something as unsafe because it has negative effects in very high dosage is a bit bogus. Some things that might be fairly damaging in high doses could actually be beneficial in smaller dosages. I

 

[Mahikan]

On a point about dosage, it seems to that to regard something as unsafe because it has negative effects in very high dosage is a bit bogus. Some things that might be fairly damaging in high doses could actually be beneficial in smaller dosages. I

Indeed you are quite correct. There are many herbal medicines that we can take that are very beneficial in low doses but if we increase the dosage they can become toxic. This is the point I'm making about the Black Cohosh, at extremely high doses it is not good for us at all, but at the right dosage, it is very beneficial (which many studies have now borne out and have now reversed Health Canada's claims about it being dangerous).

 

[Mahikan]

Why was the fact the study was done on mice, and not on human females significant to you? Laboratory science has a long and succesful history of using animal models. Of course that does not automatically mean x for a mouse equals x for a human being - but its a strong basis for proposing such a connection, paving the way for further experimentation. An enormous amount of work on human developmental genetics was done using the common fruit fly as an animal mode - its amazing how similar life is at fundamendal levels.

Doseage, as you point out, is entirely relevant - however its important to take the results in context. Pointing out that high doses of black cohosh increases metastasis of existing tumours, those results are significant. That does not mean that low doses will cause the same effect, but it raises it as a hypothesis for future experimentation.

As for your point on medicines being based on plants - exactly right. Plants produce a staggering range of secondary metabolites that experimentation reveals to have unique or interesting properties. The chemical structure of those compounds is determined, in particular the active sites of those compounds, i.e. what particular arrangement of atoms confers a particular effect. Thats your basic pharmacology, then computational pharmacology is used to determine new alterations or variations on that compound, for example to have a 'stronger' effect.

No you are not butting in, always great to have another point of view. I agree, many studies have been done on genetics and all sorts of other relevant areas; however, there have been a great deal of flaws within certain realms of the studies as well that we need to also take into account. I have done the genetic testing on the fruit flies indeed as well, but we are talking about some very different aspects with the studies using Black Cohosh and let's face it, flies (and yes fruit flies) can eat and metabolize fecal matter - not so great if we ingest it ourselves - so a critical difference there? Using animal models in certain circumstances are useful, and in others they do not actually make a lot of sense. There have been a significant number of studies done on human females with Black Cohosh under the same circumstances with the correct dosage (again I point out indigenous peoples who have used this same plant), and so far the studies do not support the findings that have been reported in the mice, not even close. So the experimentation has already been done and will likely continue on for some time.

 

[Mahikan]

Mahikan, would be great if you could make it over sometime. Please let us know.

I most certainly will. It would be great to meet a lot of the amazing people on this forum, very interesting and a ton of knowledge!