Help with Sleeping Bag Selection please

[Too Much Kit To Carry]

I am having trouble selecting an upgrade to my existing sleeping bag which is about 20 years old, it is not the warmest bag and takes up 1/3 of my 120-ltr bergen.

What I am after is: -

Must pack down small.
Must be warm – intend to camp out in various seasons.
Would like it to be relatively lightweight – but that would be a bonus.
Hard wearing.
Can be used on a kip mat or in a hammock.


My thoughts have ranged greatly over the months since spending quite a long time talking over light weight kit with Jeremy Hastings of Islay Birding and Bushcraft at Wilderness Gathering earlier this year – I attended his “Less Is More Mater Class” which, as my BCUK handle suggests, I needed to learn! I’m now thinking that my needs might not be catered for by one sleeping bag – perhaps I need a 2-season bag for the warmer months and a second warmer bag for the winter months.

I am also wondering whether to opt for down or hollow fill – I’m beginning to think that I may be camping out in various forms of shelter in the future and that I may be unavoidable to keep the bag dry all the time, thus a down bags performance would be compromised. Also in a bushcraft environment the bag is going to get dirty, smell of wood smoke, etc. and being able to stick the bag in the washing machine would be an advantage over having to go to the trouble and expense of specialist cleaning.

Tony of BCUK did an interesting appraisal of the Nanok Endurance SF 0C in Issue 2 Summer Bushcraft magazine – I have had a look on the Nanok website and can’t seem to find the what size the bag compresses down to, Tony sates that it is “not particularly small”. What really appeals about this bag is it’s size – “this cavernous interior allowed unhindered movement” – I always find that most bags are too restrictive for me and I end up sleeping with my arms outside of the bag, this is obviously not going to be very comfy in the colder months!

As you can all see I’m pretty confused!!

The bags that I have on my current “short list” are:-

Softie Special Forces 3 – “This is the Special Forces 1 and 2 sleeping bags plus the special zip baffle which allows the two bags to be placed inside each other, the baffle then zips the two together making one versus warm bag. So you can have a 5 season bag or just use them separately as 2 and 3 season bags. Also includes a large compression stuff sack to carry in the 5 season mode.” From www.sofmilitary.co.uk/ This caters for most of my needs and gives me in effect 3 sleeping bag combinations – at around £170 for a “3 bag combo” this doesn’t seem to be too expensive.


Nanok Endurance SF 0C - “The summer version of the Endurance range. Designed to give ultimate flexibility and a large comfort range when it comes to different temperatures. Will fit outside the -10 without reducing the internal volume of the bag. The foot section has a removable foot bucket made from a heavier material to protect the sleeping bag when sleeping with your boots on. The boot bucket can also be a water carrier and sleeping kit stuff sack.” From http://www.nanok.no/eng/endurance/endurance-0.htm In combination with the –10 Nanok possibly, although the SF 0C might be a little too warm in the summer the duel venting would probably allow for the bag to be used open. At £60 looks like good value and would probably be easy to sell on if not suitable


The phdesigns produce some top flight lightweight down bags, I believe that they produce some of the lights bags in the world, but then there are down filled and look pretty small and might prove to be too restrictive for me to sleep in. www.phdesigns.co.uk


Snugpak Softie Elite 3 quite a lot of info on ebay here - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260051961027&fromMakeTrack=true But this looks a little on the small side, but again at £60 looks like good value and would probably be easy to sell on if not suitable.


I would really appreciate any input from any of you guys that have had some experience actually using your kit in the elements – it would be great to have some informed opinions to help me decide which route to go down. I would hasten to add that although I not made of money I do believe that you get what you pay for and I see quality kit as a long-term investment.

Thanks in advance for any feedback guys. :You_Rock_

Cheers,

Phil.

 

[British Red]

Phil,

The Nakok Endurance range are top notch but large and fairly heavy. The 0, in its stufsack is manageable - say about half a big pillow in size (the -10 which I would go for as well, because they nest is appreciably bigger. the -25 is huge)

Are you coming to the Hampshire meet? If so I could bring them and show you?

The Snugpacks pack real small but their temperature guides are over optimistic, the nesting set would work okay though for the UK I'm sure. Can't help on the down ones sadly

Red

 

[faff]

iv had lots of bags but rab down bags are the best.

 

[Too Much Kit To Carry]

Phil,

The Nakok Endurance range are top notch but large and fairly heavy. The 0, in its stufsack is manageable - say about half a big pillow in size (the -10 which I would go for as well, because they nest is appreciably bigger. the -25 is huge)

Are you coming to the Hampshire meet? If so I could bring them and show you?

The Snugpacks pack real small but their temperature guides are over optimistic, the nesting set would work okay though for the UK I'm sure. Can't help on the down ones sadly

Red

Hey Red,

I've requested from outdoorcode further size spec's on the Nanok - looks pretty good esp. in combination with the other bag nest.

Have PM'd you re Hampshire meet - got a few things going on. Also have promised Jason Sears that the next free weekend I have I will spend it with him and his mates.

Cheers,

Phil.

 

[Too Much Kit To Carry]

iv had lots of bags but rab down bags are the best.

Hi faff,

Down is better - lighter, packs tiny, very warm etc. - but due to getting it damp/wet/muddy hollow fit might be more practical for me in the field.

Cheers for the input

Phil.

 

[billycan]

I have a Snugpack SF2 and what i think is a very early SF1 or similar both with central zips. They wont zip together as they are different zips however the two create a combo on their own. The SF1 is tiny when compressed, it will half fill a PLCE side pocket and is great for the warmer months. The SF2 also goes down fairly small and so far have not been cold . The central zips are excellent especially for hammock use but are also easier on the ground. If you look around you can find the SF1 and 2 together with the zip and baffle for less than £170, i'll try and find a link. PM'd you a link..
I know there is a lot of sceptism about the Snugpak bags however, at the end of the day you have to find kit that YOU are happy with and like using, as it doesn't matter what other people think, if it works for you then thats all that matters.
The woodlore (nanok) bags are also good but bulky with a central zip.

Not so keen on my SF2, after a bit of serious use!!!

 

[Dougster]

Hi faff,

Down is better - lighter, packs tiny, very warm etc. - but due to getting it damp/wet/muddy hollow fit might be more practical for me in the field.

Cheers for the input

Phil.

Don't forget that a Brit army gore-tex bivvy will protect it quite a bit - they also add a little warmth and weather proofing. This may be just what you need to go over a 3-4 season sleep bag, with a 2-3 season hollofil for the summer months.

As the GTX bags aren't that expensive, you'd have every avenue covered.

 

[Jackdaw]

Have you considered the current Army issued Sleeping bag?

You can pick one up for around £20 and they are pretty warm. I don't use anything else in winter.

 

[Ogden]

"Must pack down small" and "Must be warm" is quite a contradiction in my
opinion. (Except down bags which are useful for short high altitude trips)
I was always on the heavy side with the old Ajungilaks.
If you have the chance to get one Ajungilak Tyin from the old production, I would
still buy one. In my view the only successor is Nanok. Best bags available.

 

[gregorach]

I've got an Ajungilak Kompact 3 season synthetic fill bag which is a pretty good weight / warmth compromise - but I much prefer my 1-2 season Rab down bag!

I've always taken great care to keep my bag dry, and I don't mind it smelling of wodsmoke. I ended up buying the Rab after I decided that the Anjungilak was simply too warm most of the time... I'd definitely recommend having a light bag for use in the warmer months - it's lighter and more comfortable. To be honest, I prefer to take the Rab and wear thermals if it's cool, and keep the Ajungilak for when it's really needed - being used to having a really light, compact bag, I just resent carrying something so big and heavy.

Personally, I'm of the view that if you can't keep your bag dry, you're doing something wrong - but then I'm not one for improvised shelters.

 

[swyn]

Try www.alpkit.com they have a good range of down bags for reasonable prices.
Swyn.

 

[KenC]

Seems that there are 5 parameters you need to think about

1. Warmth
2. Size
3. Weight
4. Durability
5. Cost.

For example, a down bag will provide the best warmth for size and weight, but at a cost. The really expensive ones (£250+) are probably quite durable, but I wouldn't know because I can't afford one!

On the other hand, synthetic bags are generally heavier, colder, and won't pack as well, but are much cheaper.

As military bags tend to come in at the low price end, they are synthetic, heavy and bulky, though I guess they may be quite durable. I've been gobsmacked at how big and heavy these things are.

I would very much recommend going for a down filling if you can afford it, and the Stormlite 1000 is fantastic value for money; a down bag rated to about -15, ferociously warm, and which you should be able to pick up for under £100 in Field and Trek spring sale (if you can weight).

 

[Squidders]

Sorry to throw any confusion in to the mix but have you looked at the buffalo systems super bag? Made in sheffield and very nice!!

I recently purchased one for my girlfriend and was impressed with the build and features. aparently they're warm when wet too which is a bonus.

Just a thought

 

[scanker]

I have two Snugpak bags and wouldn't recommend them. If you want a s/h lightly used Elite 3 let me know, although I guess my sales patter needs a bit of fine tuning!

No other personal experience to add, but I've got two Nanok jackets and if I was buying a sleeping bag again, a Nanok would probably be number one on my list of possibles. As Swyn says, the alpkit down bags are worth considering - they come in different lengths at the moment I think, but you'll have to check.

 

[Too Much Kit To Carry]

First off - thanks for all the input to the thread and also via PM :You_Rock_

I really did think I was begining to get a "grip" with this sleeping bag lark but I am now more confused than ever.

I kipped on the floor of our lounge in my bag last night and it reall is too small - it is old and I guess it's standard mummy shape and size. It's ok in a tent enviroment where I can have my arms out as I sleep but I want to now move on to a bag that has enough room for me and my arms

Perhaps I should start giving a sleeping bag review website and offer to test run the good before buying

Thanks once again for your input guys - keep it coming please :You_Rock_

Phil.

 

[weaver]

You may want to take a look see at Wiggy's.

http://www.wiggys.com/

Read all their data before you blow them off. By far, the finest sleeping gear in the world! Quality does have a price, so does comfort.

 

[Bozle]

I've got the elite 3, I rate it as a very decent workhorse bag, its weight compares to down for the warmth and as you said the price is very good. A couple of points that might be relevant to you;

Like the nanok its got a heavy duty foot bucket, unfortuantly not removable but very easy to wipe clean.

The elasticated expanding panel increases the diameter of the bag quite a bit- I can get it all around a thai style hammock.

Have you seen the expanda panel under the code green section of the Snugpak website? Would be useful to upgrade an existing sleeping bag and add a bit of flexibility to the temperature.

A few months ago Argos had their cheapest bags on sale down to £7, which had masses of room inside. Unfortuantly the catalogue bag seems to be one of 3 designs they sell under the single catalogue number.

A good UK sleeping bag resource is;
http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/defaultGear_New.asp?sp=&v=3

As you can probably see from the range of answers here, sleeping bags are quite personal kit and you will very rarely find someone who has indepth knowledge of all the options that will suit you or from your perspective.

Try to get out to a good outdoor supplier, try them on and find one that you like.

 

[Toddy]

I've got the Nanok -10 endurance and I love it
It packs down to the size of an old fashioned medicine ball, the boot bucket I just don't need so don't bother carrying. There are double zips so in and out or cooling down a bit is easy and the hood baffles are really good.
It's easy to wash and dry too.
Have you considered buying a silk liner to add to a small packing, very light weight bag, if that's really what you are after? They pack down to the size of a cricket ball but add about 5 degreeC to the temperature range. Makes something like a Snugpak a more feasible buy.
atb,
Toddy

 

[Graywolf]

I have just got myself the Mountain Equipment Firewalker 3 ,has good reviews on outdoor magic website and at the outdoorshop.com its on sale at the moment for £50 for the XL version £60 for standard usely £80.
Clayton

 

[Voivode]

Not to throw a wrench into your deliberations, but I really think synthetics are being pooh-poohed away here. We use synthetic mummy bags that are good to -7C while backpacking in the mountains. They weigh around 3 lbs and pack down to a bit less than 18L, more if you compression sack it. Stats here. The packed size isn't as fantastic as a down unit, but it's a fraction of the cost, works when it's wet and is durable. If you're too hot, you can just unzip and hang your arms out; My friend is a chronic warm sleeper and even in sub-zero temperatures has his bag unzipped! He's also a tall man, and uses a longer bag than I do.

It sounds like you would like to be able to move about in your bag, which sounds more like the classic barrel bag than a mummy bag. They tend to be far colder for their weight/size though, as the efficiency isn't as good.

The liner mentioned a couple of posts back is a good idea, but I would personally go for a bivvy of some sort to extend and fortify a more marginal bag. They're usually waterproof and durable, so you could use pretty much anything you like inside of them. You could go without shelter and not worry if you get rained on!